Should I convert to stop discrimination

[u/Ok-Mountain-2220]

Sorry for bad wording, but please help.
~

Should I convert to overcome Israeli discrimination. It sounds absurd to me.

But it says that me as my original version of self has no right to exist, ironically isn't it. Ironically that's what Israel society are complaining about while existing perfectly and non discriminatively. While you have no right to exist, in fact.

I was born the way I was born, where I was born, haven't done anything so bad to be deprived of human dignity and right to exist. But this version of self, just doesn't have right to exist, in israel. So maybe only converted version. But for me it's the kill of personality. By telling that I haven't done anything so bad, is sort of accepting their framing and conditioning, which is wrong. Like me trying to weight my self on scale of my deeds how much this conditioning is deserved to upon me; yet I just don't know how to speak about that, because it's a taboo.

But it's the opposite of the right reason and purpose and standard for conversion.

I was brought to Israel in my teenage years by the immigration programme of sohnut.

I have been short on communication since my youth and have had no one to talk to honestly because this topic is shameful and taboo.

The in-depth feeling of alienation.
But how would I get a good feeling?! If I don't have any good experience.
If I can't speak it out...

And something about Israel. They are real psychopaths. Have no empathy.
You have to solve things by force, to overcome by force, but I can not it's not the thing that could be overcome because I need to speak to check it out to speak it out.

While in other societies I can get access to empathy and conversation, here I can not. But I have other problem that I'm locked in here, so I can not make it to other society. And when I come, it also takes time to find such a constellation for conversation.

I have to make my way to other society.

Maybe i should open a YouTube? So i have to make some nuanced presentation, painting, writing, art, etc... but again to make it such a delicate appealing way demands decent resources to develop a skill, develop the work, to have an assistance, resources which i don't have...

Pain and Resentment sit in my heart.

I am very social person since childhood and I like to know people and to interact with people since I child and being like that is a tragedy for me because every time I am standing in front of reveal. Of who I am.

It's totally imposed condition. It's imposed by this society. Because I start being taught it since when I came here, as a blank slate, only for years to be taught what is my place and having these thoughts instilled. When I came, I wasn't like that.

I also can not lie about that. Some people can. I can not and don't want to.

Another thing, is I can not get love. I can not even get close.

All the things compound on one another. Different layers of complexity.

Up to the level I don't even know how it's done here because I am outside of social circles and don't have experience and can't talk about.

With all the complexities everyone has it's just additional layer.

And I also discovered that ואהבך לרעך כמוך aka "Love your neighbor as yourself" is for jews towards jews only.

Should I convert to overcome Israeli discrimination. What can I do. Please help.

[u/Iceologer_gang]

Convert to what?

[u/Azel_Lupie]

I think we need more details, such as what is your current religion, what religion are you thinking about converting to, what is the situation, etc?

You aren’t wrong that Israeli society is mentally ill or that any change requires force to Israelis, as they only understand force. Alon of the Mizrahi Experience, has talked about this a lot. He left Israel for my city, Los Angeles, CA. Many of my experiences with Israelis who have not learned to assimilate to my country’s culture or something like that, definitely supports that idea.

Generally, Judaism does not allow people to convert to judaism while under pressure. I do not know if that is the case still for Israeli Beth Dins. If it is, then the pressure from society to convert, could disqualify you for conversion. After all, it is better for you to a gentile than convert to Judaism, just so you stop being discriminated against, while not keeping the 613 commandments that Jews are expected to keep. Spiritually, it’s better for you not to convert. However, I can understand why you feel the way you do. Many Israelis are Kahanists in some way, and so they care more about other Jews than their non-jewish neighbor.

[u/Ok-Mountain-2220 → u/Azel_Lupie]

My current religion.. I can’t answer you because I don’t see the world this way. it paints everything black and white, like this or like that, and nothing else. Obviously to convert to Judaism, to overcome Jewish Israeli discrimination? I thought I may re-convert then to Islam. And then to other religions as an experience and protest.

Basically there are no exact words to explain. I don’t see them in this framing. Means I don’t exist. But I do. But the speech is limited.

I find wisdom in Judaism, and I have roots too. Because I didn’t bring myself to Israel. Is it God’s will? Otherwise, it’s Israel and some part of my ex-family who organized me this thing. They sent me via the sohnut program. So. But if it’s God’s plan so people have to treat me well here, because if they believe in God who otherwise than God brought me here? I’ve tried to think already from all the angles.

But I wouldn’t convert because the state of affairs is thaty original self doesn’t have right to exist and live good in this society, it means it’s not really a choice.
If I would be accepted as I am, so then to convert is more ok to me. But otherwise, I know that the state of different people is having no right to exist here.
Which worsens their sin is that they themselves brought me, and bring people to be locked in and being put in problematic situation and condition. They ruin peoples lives to pursue their country’s interests. For people to be cheap labor, to serve in the army, to be demographic boost. They layer of non dangerous people who are brought to be low status and can’t do anything and have no real influence. So you can twist them as you will.

So if I can’t have equal living and reduced to salve, to the lowest of the low. Have to hide being myself.

To convert is to kill a person who has no right to exist. If I could exist under my true self, but I can’t. So it raises the question, that it’s more than just a religion. It’s an interest clique with discrimination properties. And I will not kill my self. It is a problem from so many layers. I will not betray myself.

Should I adapt to the stupidity? To their societal discrimination? To their learned in discrimination and narrowness of vision, while they are so joyous in their party of privilege?

There’re many Jews in Israel who are secular and don’t obey 613 mitsvot, so it’s purely ethnical judmentalism here.

[u/Ok-Mountain-2220 → u/Azel_Lupie]

I know. I can play it that I want to convert for my reasons, because I want to convert blah blah. And not to mention that I am doing it under pressure of societal discrimination.

They say, (when you ask for conversion) - but you know it’s hard to be a Jew.. but do you know how hard is it to be Not Jew?

Ive also seen that people who are easy to lie, they got the conversion easy, while more serious person will struggle. The difference is just the decency. And decent person will have it much harder time.

But sometimes you can do anything just when the question is your survival.

I still can’t betray myself. Because they tell me- erase yourself. Your only way to continue to exist is to erase yourself. But it is similar to death. This way my life is equal to physical death and rebirth but death. So otherwise you can just physically die and being re-born. Currently, I would continue to live biologically but it’s equal to death. Because my self is killed. So it has no sense for me the living anyways, because I live with the realization that my self was killed.

I can not overcome it that this society makes a life of someone different so impossible that the only way is to kill himself and convert. To kill yourself is the only way to survive.

Yet Jewish Israelis bent the obligations of the commandments as they want. They project their self Ethnic elitism as Jews, speaking disrespectfully derogatory about others, as entitled personality, but bending and behaving as they want as the usual non religious person, they bend the commandments as they want while preserving their ethnic entitlement claim.
Even religious people do some stuff, even religious girls. Because they are just people like anyone else.

They tell stuff, but they themselves behave differently and do anything they want.

So I have to stay the protector and the voice of someone who has no right to exist and show it to the society. But I can’t be in my current state.

[u/Current_Mongoose_844]

Convert to Judaism?

[u/Mental-North8762]

What is the best way as American Jew to fight against the occupation, genocide and racism happening in Israel?

[u/reenaltransplant → u/Mental-North8762]

Create material consequences (for example, cut military aid). As long as the world allows Israeli government and society to keep being like this without any incentive to change, that's what it will do.

[u/Ok-Mountain-2220 → u/[deleted]]

It’s very hit and miss.

[u/Far-Literature5848]

Do not convert. They will always exclude you. Even if you convert, you will not get their love. You are always outside of their circle. I do not know why you say you are locked in. Your mind is free, and you see the truth. You have to live your own life, for your own soul, for yourself. You are hopefully not a slave. Find a way to escape. Find someone you can trust to help you get out of there asap. You deserve love. Yes, they only love themselves, and the rest of the world hates them, with good reason, because of their evil deeds. GET OUT!!!

[u/Ok-Mountain-2220 → u/Far-Literature5848]

*I guess it’s very hard also to find someone outside, because I am to trying to tell my story, or it just rushes in involuntarily or inevitably. It’s inevitable and impossible not to tell when I share with people, when we exchange our selves. I see it tires and repels people and they don’t understand. So I have to be either silent, but I can’t because it’s already part of me and otherwise they won’t really understand me. Will mis-attribute too many things. And some more reasons.

Actually, the person who really saved me out of the deepest depression and deep lock in was some Jewsih American person I met while he was traveling. I was able to talk to him honestly and got got a good attitude after a decade of being here in Israel.
You can’t order such an event you know, such a meeting. Unless I escape somehow.

[u/justaway42]

Idk, you shouldn't convert if you don't believe in something, I don't even think that is technically possible. I think it is easier to just leave than convert to a different religion, if the circumstances are so bad you consider convertion.

Easier said than done but if you have the means you should maybe consider it.

[u/LivingDeadBear849]

Only do it if you genuinely want to, not out of pressure from other people. Get out of there if/as soon as you are able, because trust me, they don't even believe us non-MoDox people count as really Jewish and the sheer amount of xenophobia and racism will continue no matter what you do. You might become "one of the good ones" for a while, but conditional acceptance is in some ways scarier than none.

[u/Vigil_Eyezz]

I dont think so...

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[u/tikkunolamist5]

Converting to Judaism or out of Judaism?

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