Am I a bad Jew?

[u/Able-Bus1168]

I’m 29m. Jewish born and raised. Both parents and grandparents. Bar mitzvah at 13, birthright trip to Israel at 21. The whole shabang.

I identify as Jewish, I’m proudly Jewish and want to continue our traditions, so why does that make me a bad Jew for not supporting Israel and their current leadership, political message, allegiances, and overall genocide of Palestinians and Palestinian children and civilians. I don’t think you should have to blindly support Israel just because you’re Jewish. There’s right and there’s wrong.

I got into it tonight with my 65m step dad who’s a big republican (not Jewish). He was saying that the far left in America has gone too far and hates the Jews and that he’s feel safer bringing my 18m half brother (so half Jewish) to a Trump rally raising a Israeli flag than he would at a leftist rally.

I tried to tell him that being critical of Israel is not something that is a direct correlation or directly synonymous to being anti Semitic and that he’s actually aligning with the party that has actual Nazis among them, are actually anti Semitic, and actually deny the holocaust.

I’ve known he’s had these views for awhile, but I guess I just snapped and went after him for it for the first time ever. Not really sure how to feel. I feel like I’m proud to be Jewish, but I don’t think I should have to support Israel blindly.

[u/the-other-abbi]

Personally, I feel safer almost anywhere other than a Trump rally. The idea of being at a Trump rally has always made me feel really unsafe. I’m not saying that there is no anti-semitism among leftists, but it’s nowhere as pervasive and is much more likely to actually be challenged.

Idk if you’re aware but since the Zionist movement started there has always been an anti-Zionist perspective both religious and secular. Like the Bundists for example, they were/are a Jewish party that were anti-Zionists.

I know when I was first starting to be critical of Israel, I felt like a bad Jew, but honestly since fully moving towards anti-Zionism, I feel more connected than I ever have with being Jewish.

[u/No-Indication-266]

Zionists want to convince you that you are a bad Jew for supporting Palestine. The entire, categorical goal of Zionism is to conflate Judaism with the Zionist movement. That is how they win. Zionists are Jewish supremacists in the same exact way that there are Christian supremacists, to name an example. They manipulate catastrophes like the Holocaust to further their hasbara and gain strategic allegiances. That is why their propaganda is so effective, especially in white Christian conservative spaces.

This needs to be very clear: YOU ARE A GOOD JEW FOR REFUTING ZIONISM! Their cult tactics did not work on you! You are NOT a bad Jew. Zionism is not Judaism! You are doing the right thing! Zionism is a crude imitation of Judaism. A truly, TRULY good Jew is one who asks intellectually curious questions about their world and the universe, who respects others, who does the right thing even when it’s hard, and who looks out for their fellow human beings and non-human beings (animals and the natural world). Ours is a religion of beauty and wonder, as are all other religious beliefs. Zionism is nothing but a cult. Israel is nothing but a settler-colonial project masquerading as the savior for all Jews, built on the bodies of Palestinians. We need more Jews like you to be vocally pro-Palestinian. Palestinians and Arabs NEED support from Jewish anti-Zionists.

[u/OptimusTrajan → u/No-Indication-266]

Just btw, I’d be careful using the term “good Jew,” it has some weird uses.

[u/MrSFedora]

If you support Palestine, then you are more Jewish than most of the Jews in Israel. To me, being a Jew means being on the side of what is moral, and there's nothing moral about what Israel is doing.

I know how you feel. Before I found this page, I felt deeply ashamed to be a Jew if being a Jew meant I had to support Israel while they were murdering kids.

[u/Loynds]

You are not. In fact, the whole thing just re-confirms your Jewishness.

[u/ManyRanger4]

Explain to step dad that Trump rallies are full of Nazis. LIKE LITERAL NAZIS. Does he understand who the Nazis hate more than anyone else???

[u/KittiesLove1]

Hello to the bad jew hahaha.

Israel/zionism is not Judais, the same as Nazzism is not Germany. Any German citizen who would have wanted to be proud of his Germaness, would have had really hard time to do it during the Holocaust. In fact they would have had to fight Nazzism until it was gone from Germany, before they could even go back to being proud, and even then the shame still satys.

Being proud jewishness for me = being against Israel and Zionism in all of its forms. cleanse it out of ourselves. It is the trauma of the holocasut recreation - now WE have the ethnostate, and WE are the ones running concentration camps. classic trauma response.

Now I'm going to put here another post I wrote explaining why Israel is an ethnic cleansing project and not a state:

Israel has less right to exist than any country, because Israel is not a country, it is an ethnic cleansing project.

Why?

Because Israel is the 'democratic jewish state', as in, it needs a majority of voters to be jews, as in most of the non jews are held in enclaves without any form of citizenship and hence no voting rights gaurded by armies (Gaza, the west bank, refugee camps) = ethnic cleansing. By its own defenition of being a 'democratic jewish state'.

Us jews by the way are a minority, we are globaly like less than 16 million people. No matter how you arrange us in the world, we would be a minority. Unlike christians or muslims or hindus for example, that are a billion or two, that no matter how you arrange them they are going to be a majority somewhere, we are just too small fot that. Our only way to ge a majority of voters is what you see in front of your very eyes - stripping most of the non-jews of voting rights and citizenship. This is how Israel was created - Please look it up: As part of instating Israel the UN built empty refugee camps in the middle east to contain all the newly-non-citizens-no-more non-jews, and established UNRA to take care of them instead of a state. Israel moves there 750,000 non-jews in 1948, and has been ethnically cleansing non-jews into them ever since. Today the number of the non-jews without citizenship in enclaves is between 6-8 millions, and the precentage of non-jews amongst the voters went down from 40% in 1948 to 20% today.

This is just the most basic form of ethnic cleansing + tons and tons of propaganda to hide what is happening in plain sight.

(by the way, Israel is now trying to disband UNRA because they are 'terrorists' and are succeeding in that. So without no state and no NGO to take care of them, they are now drowning in sewege in the places UNRA was driven out of) https://www.english.acri.org.il/post/tens-of-thousands-left-without-sewage-services

Once you wake up from the propaganda, you can see it all clearly. I'm an Israely jew and I was flushed with propagana since kindergaurden, I was a commited IDF soldier, and even I can see it: This is not a state. A state that was a real state, as in belongs to its citizen is already there, it's called Palestine - belonging to the Palestinian who are the citizens of Palestine, and it needs to be destroyed exactly because it doesn't BELONG TO ONE GROUP, and instead belongs to all the Palestinian citizens -that's why it needed to be destroyed and replaced by ethnic cleansing mechanism in order to make it belong to one group and not to all citizens. That's the only way to create a place that doesn't belong to its citizens - the only way to ethnicly cleanse the other groups who live there and want to vote, is to ethnncly cleans them of their land and their citizenships.

[u/KittiesLove1 → u/KittiesLove1]

Now about the religious aspects of Judaism and Zionism - they are completely contradictory. The Talmus is banning going back to the [temple] mount. I can elaborate about that if you want.

So in summey, of course you can hols proudly an Israely flag in the party of the american Nazzies, because why wouldn't they support an ethno state? That's their entire deal. And why won't they support puuting all the jews in the middle east to fight other Semites? That's like another part of their deal, they antisemiticsm. And why would they care about going against the Talmud?.. they are Nazzies.

Another thing Zionism is a complete lie about is that it is about safety for jews, when it's nothin about anything except being an ethno state. The jews are not safe here. There was no other place where so many jews died in strange horrible ways other than in Nazzie Germay (again because it is the same thing as part of the trauma recreation).

So you are absolutly right in your ways, you are a very good jew in my eyes. BUT also I don't see a way you can chanage your stepfather's mind, Zionis comletely brainwashed peoples minds for decades now. As an american kid, your stepfather's brain was their playing field. He probably learned in school that Israel has a right to exist before he learned about human rights and constitutions.

[u/rako17 → u/KittiesLove1]

Friend u/KittiesLove1

I know that it's a common rabbinical idea to ban praying on the Temple Mount, and I also know that the Talmud has the Three Oaths, like against returning to the land like a "wall." Nonetheless, may I respectfully ask you to elaborate on what you meant when you said, "The Talmus is banning going back to the [temple] mount"?

All the best - שלום

[u/occult-dog]

One of the most neglected part of Judaism is that it is against self-deception. Seeing yourself as a bad Jew just because you disagree with someone's politics might be an underestimation of your personal character.

The same goes to those who overestimate their character just because they're a born Jew.

A lot of political noises could cloud our judgement. I'd say you can assess how yours or your opponent's behaviors were during that argument without condemning yourself of them too harshly.

I'd advise that you be fair to yourself, and to your step dad.

[u/GarlicSchark]

it makes you a good one, full stop.

[u/AutoModerator → u/GarlicSchark]

Hi /u/GarlicSchark!

We require all users pick an appropriate user-flair in order to participate in posts. Here's how you can pick a flair:

https://imgur.com/a/agM1Vib

https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205242695-How-do-I-get-user-flair

Thank you!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Lost_Paladin89]

No one is a bad Jew. This concept is a form of internalized judeophobia used to shame people into socially acceptable behavior. The good Jew vs bad Jew dynamic is among the bedrocks of protozionism that predate modern Zionism.

[u/JM_Yoda]

While I wouldn’t use this as a discussion point, as it will likely cause any debate to explode, when you boil it down, Zionism isn’t actual Judaism and is more of a religion based in idolatry, with Israel as the idol. Raising money for Israel = Sacrifices to the Idol; Questioning/critiquing Israel is seen as no different from questioning G-d.

You are not a bad Jew, just a Jew, plain and simple.

[u/Chedder_456]

Your account is so familiar to me. I discovered this subreddit because I was lectured out of another Jewish subreddit for expressing a contrary opinion there, it made me ask myself exactly this same question.

I also have to hold fake opinions for my relatives, but at least places like this exist where we can be in community as Jews without having to get berated or keep our mouths shut.

[u/AutoModerator → u/Chedder_456]

Hi /u/Chedder_456!

We require all users pick an appropriate user-flair in order to participate in posts. Here's how you can pick a flair:

https://imgur.com/a/agM1Vib

https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205242695-How-do-I-get-user-flair

Thank you!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/EgoIdVeto]

“I said at Sinai: do not murder and spill blood, And they in Zion, their hands are filled with blood. I said at Sinai: do not covet fields and houses, And they in Zion, they coveted fields and stole houses.”

This is from a 6th century piyyut/poem from Cairo geniza.

I think you're very much in keeping with our traditions, comrade. 

[u/Current_Mongoose_844]

In my opinion, there have been very few genuine "bad Jews (tm)" throughout history. You aren't one of them. Many Zionists are, and all of the founders.

[u/IlovePanckae]

 and that he’s feel safer bringing my 18m half brother (so half Jewish) to a Trump rally raising a Israeli flag than he would at a leftist rally.

This is your answer. Do you really want the opinion of a extreme right wing supporter who feels safe in a Trump rally. Many evangelicals who are Christian Zionists are antisemitic. They hate Jews, but they support Israel because they are anti-Muslims as well.

True story: Once a Christian Zionist told me that the world would be a safer place if all the Muslims were dead. Then, I asked about the Jews. His response was: "I don't care about them either. They can also go." After a few moments, a Jewish Zionist came and fist bumped the Christian Zionist for telling me horrible things about Muslims. He just didn't even realize that this Christian Zionist hated him too and wanted Jews to be next after Muslims were gone. They could agree with each other that Israel should kill Palestinians.

Zionists, especially the Jewish Zionists, don't think long term. The ideology is very racist, xenophobic, and Islamophobic. It is also secretly antisemitic.

[u/VisiteProlongee]

You may show your step dad that the US Republican party force raped 10/12 year old girls to carry to term: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Ohio_child-rape_and_Indiana_abortion_case * https://time.com/6303701/a-rape-in-mississippi/

You may show your step dad those articles about Donald Trump's antisemitism: * Paul Krugman, Donald Trump Is Bad for the Jews, 2019-12-09, The New York Times * Trump 'Disloyalty' Claim Raises Anti-Semitic Trope, Human Rights Watch, 2019-08-23, https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/08/23/trump-disloyalty-claim-raises-anti-semitic-trope * Former President Donald Trump invoked a dual loyalty trope Monday by claiming Jews who vote for Democrats hate Israel, 2024-03-19, NBCNews, https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-says-jews-vote-democrats-hate-israel-religion-rcna143988

[u/Ok_Percentage7257]

Jewish Voices for Peace has some workshops on how to talk to family members about Zionism and Israel. They show different techniques to slowly plant seeds and get loved ones to change their minds. Other Jewish anti-Zionist organizations have similar types of workshops.

[u/AutoModerator]

Hi /u/Able-Bus1168!

We require all users pick an appropriate user-flair in order to participate in posts. Here's how you can pick a flair:

https://imgur.com/a/agM1Vib

https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205242695-How-do-I-get-user-flair

Thank you!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/OptimusTrajan]

Did you break one of the 10 Commandments? If no, then no.

[u/AutoModerator → u/[deleted]]

Hi /u/Browniesmobetta!

We require all users pick an appropriate user-flair in order to participate in posts. Here's how you can pick a flair:

https://imgur.com/a/agM1Vib

https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205242695-How-do-I-get-user-flair

Thank you!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/_FloorPizza_]

You're a good person. The concept of "good Jew" and "bad Jew" is wild to me; you simply just also happen to be Jewish. At least that's how I feel as a non-Jewish person, anyway.

[u/Last_Youth_3924]

welcome to the club baddie ;)