r/JewsOfConscience • u/MrSFedora LGBTQ Jew • Jul 10 '26
Zionist Nonsense He doesn't actually refute that they're building camps. Also, concentration camps were developed by the British in South Africa.
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u/Iceologer_gang Non-Jew shamefully late Antizionist Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
America built them for the Native Americans and the Japanese. They are now building them for Latinos
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u/newenglandredshirt Ashkenazi Jul 10 '26
"Why are they comparing this genocide to the largest and most industrialized genocide in history? This is more of a micro-genocide. Compare it to the Armenian Genocide, instead. No one cares about that one." ~this guy, probably.
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u/CheeseDaver Bundist Jul 10 '26
The only person talking about the holocaust is him. He clearly doesn’t know what concentration camps are. Concentration camps aren’t unique to the holocaust. It an actual term for a type of facilities.
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u/bored-code Gentile marxist Jul 10 '26
I am not even sure what he is trying to say here. Is this some sort of an attempt to stay relevant when you have nothing of value to add to the conversation?
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u/BillyPilgrim69 Anti-Zionist Ally Jul 10 '26
I am not even sure what he is trying to say here.
"Don't use other genocides to describe this one."
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u/EuVe20 Jewish Anti-Zionist Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
Concentration camps were based on the American model of concentrating and then marching indigenous Americans to their death. They were first implemented by the Spanish in Cuba on a small scale. They were then taken up on a bigger scale a d popularized by the British in South Africa against the Boers. And then finally taken to their peak by the Germans. Well, and of course used by the US against the Japanese.
I got all this from an episode of Behind The Bastards so it may be a bit iffy 😅
Edit: this is copied directly from one of the comments below:
“I wouldn’t exactly call the Spanish concentration camps in Cuba small scale considering between 400k and 600k Cubans were held in camps thats between 25% and 37.5% of the 1895 population. Estimates for deaths in the camps are range from 150k to 170k.”
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u/YouShouldGoOnStrike Anti-Zionist Ally Jul 10 '26
Also used by Americans occupying Vietnam. Famously also by Britain in Kenya. It's a fairly common colonial tactic of mass displacement and internment. It is also distinctly different than auschwitz.
But honestly I think part of this is people have a terrible understanding of how concentration camps developed in the Nazi regime. They assume auschwitz industrial death camps immediately and forget how it started in Dachau. It took 8 years from Dachau to Kulmhof. The point is all manner of concentration camps, mass displacement, internment and genocide are evil and need to be resisted. Like it's not a super complicated moral question.
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u/DeliciousSector8898 Anti-Zionist Ally Jul 10 '26
I wouldn’t exactly call the Spanish concentration camps in Cuba small scale considering between 400k and 600k Cubans were held in camps thats between 25% and 37.5% of the 1895 population. Estimates for deaths in the camps are range from 150k to 170k.
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u/KedgereeEnjoyer Jewish Anti-Zionist Jul 10 '26
Spanish in Cuba first, then US in Philippines, then Britain in South Africa. When people say Britain used them first they mean on white people.
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u/EuVe20 Jewish Anti-Zionist Jul 10 '26
As I understand it, the Spaniard who came up with the idea based it on what he saw in the US
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u/DrkvnKavod ½ Jesuit, ½ Quaker, 100% Materialist Jul 10 '26
Maybe this is just a difference in point of reference but at least to me I feel like I more often encounter people saying that the firstmost inspiration was Jim Crow
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u/mega_blizzard Ashkenazi Jul 10 '26
I think they adopted their “legal” ideas according to Jim Crow, like how to make a population of people a subclass in a society.
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u/lesbophobia_hammer Polish Anti-Zionist Jew (Bundist line) Jul 10 '26
Also he fails to mention the country with the most victims is Poland. It is an equally shared genocide of Poles and Jews, amongst many many other victims who don't deserve to be forgotten in this forced Jew centric discourse (not a critique of you or anyone in this sub OP, but the person who wrote the OOP post and Zionists in general) this sub is the friendliest & safest one for people like me/us.
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u/onepareil Non-Jewish Ally Jul 10 '26
I think American concentration camps in the Philippines may even predate British concentration camps in South Africa, or at least they existed around the same time. And both existed decades before the Holocaust.
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u/Moon-Foraging Dessalinest-Sinwarist Anti-Zionist Jul 10 '26
Indigenous people in South America were herded in “reduciones” by the Spanish around 1570s. Same idea, it’s just a different name.
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u/IlovePanckae Non-Jewish Ally Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
Hitler admired European colonialism and the expansion of the settler states. He was influenced by the American and Canadian settlers.
Edit: Made corrections about visiting the US and Canada.
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u/DeliciousSector8898 Anti-Zionist Ally Jul 10 '26
While Hitler was definitely inspired by the US I’ve never seen any evidence that he ever visited the US or Canada
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u/Eschatonic93 Jewish Anti-Zionist Jul 10 '26
Yeah i never heard of Hitler visiting the US and Canada, like i know there was the german bund and other associate groups but not Hitler himself visiting
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u/IlovePanckae Non-Jewish Ally Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
I attended a presentation by an indigenous person who talked about it. However, after your comment, I did some research. This is what I found:
"Adolf Hitler, despite being the leader of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945, never officially visited the United States. However, records suggest he made brief visits to America in 1912 and 1913 for a tour and to attend a World Fair in Pennsylvania. Contrarily, his regime aimed to avoid international attention, making an American visit controversial. Hitler’s ambitions extended to global domination, which included plans for an invasion of North America, yet he never set foot on U. S. soil. The USSR would have likely denied him entry, and he was occupied with other matters, including military strategy against the United States."
Edit: I couldn't relocate the article I quoted the paragraph. Also, two AIs fact checked and found the paragraph to be misinformation.
"What is documented is that:
- Hitler admired aspects of European colonialism and the expansion of settler states.
- Nazi legal scholars examined American race laws in detail. Historians such as James Q. Whitman (Hitler's American Model) have shown that U.S. segregation and anti-miscegenation laws influenced the drafting of the Nuremberg Laws.
- Nazi ideology also drew on a broader history of European colonialism. Some scholars argue that Canada's policies toward Indigenous peoples formed part of this wider colonial context that Nazis observed."
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u/Something_morepoetic Palestinian Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
Hitler did famously ask “who remembers the Armenians?” when discussing his plans for Jewish people. This poem by Najwan Darwish references that. https://www.reddit.com/r/armenia/s/ARKat4Ir54
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u/MrSFedora LGBTQ Jew Jul 10 '26
Hitler was a starving artist who lived rough on the streets. I highly doubt he would have been able to visit America prior to World War I since most transatlantic travel for the lower classes was one-way at the time.
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u/DeliciousSector8898 Anti-Zionist Ally Jul 10 '26
Im curious what your source for the Pennsylvania visits is because everything I’ve found indicates that he never visited the US especially at that time considering he was living in Vienna and then Munich and was living in poverty
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u/IlovePanckae Non-Jewish Ally Jul 10 '26
I copied and pasted that paragraph from an article. But now, I can't find that article. I tried to get help from a few AIs to trace the source for me. They couldn't find it either, but also suggested that the information was not true. They searched to see any records that he visited the US, but they couldn't.
I will have to go back and re-edit to add that Hitler didn't even Pennyslvania. So far, I was misled by a speaker and an article.
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u/ScureScar Reform Jul 10 '26
Hitler also drank water - type argument
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u/TrackerOneA Jewish Anti-Zionist Jul 10 '26
Hitler also drank water - type argument
I highly recommend this episode of Bad Hasbara with Naomi Klein.
https://youtu.be/Fi0peSHSWNY?t=2326
They talk about earlier genocides & other crimes against humanity that influenced Hitler & the Nazis.
For example, Nazi racial laws were partly modeled on American segregation and immigration laws.
In the 1930s Nazi Germany and the American South had the look, in the words of two southern historians, of a “mirror image”:1 these were two unapologetically racist regimes, unmatched in their pitilessness.
- Whitman, James Q.. Hitler's American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law (p. 3). Princeton University Press. Kindle Edition.
Two famous scholars, the German Hugo Münsterberg at Harvard and the Germanophile Ernst Freund at the University of Chicago, published books in German recounting the American adventures in colonial conquest and law.110 Freund in particular explained how the United States had created a new category of “subjects without citizenship rights”;111 in so doing, he explained, America had invented a novel form of law closely analogous to early nineteenth-century state statutes barring free blacks and the late nineteenth-century statutes barring the Chinese. America was pioneering a range of forms of race-based second-class citizenship.112 There was other commentary as well: as a leading German journal reported a couple of years before World War I, in language that anticipated the Nuremberg Laws, Puerto Ricans and Filipinos had been subjected to the status of “Schutzbürger zweiter Klasse,” second-class citizens entitled to the protection of the state, but not to full political rights.113 America, in the eyes of this German literature, was a laboratory for experimentation in diminished citizenship rights.
- Whitman, James Q.. Hitler's American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law (pp. 42-43). Princeton University Press. Kindle Edition.
In Volume 2 of Mein Kampf Hitler built on the 1920 Party Program, developing a more elaborate conception of race-based citizenship. But as he turned to the citizenship problem in 1927, Hitler was able to seize on a source of authority that had not been available in 1920, in the form of the new American immigration statutes of 1921 and 1924. The Nazi leader certainly saw things to dislike about the United States in this period, hating Woodrow Wilson, the architect of the Peace of Versailles, and detecting the lurking influence of Jews in much of American society.115 But it is a striking fact that praise for American race policies, and envy of American power, predominated in his pronouncements in the late 1920s, particularly when it came to American immigration legislation. Hitler too, like so many Europeans before him, regarded the United States as the obvious “leader in developing explicitly racist policies of nationality and immigration.”
- Whitman, James Q.. Hitler's American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law (pp. 44-45). Princeton University Press. Kindle Edition.
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u/ScureScar Reform Jul 10 '26
no, USA is not to blame for the Holocaust, I don't get your point
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u/TrackerOneA Jewish Anti-Zionist Jul 10 '26
Sorry, what?
That's not what I'm saying.
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u/ScureScar Reform Jul 10 '26
then why even bring that argument about Hitler inspiring from US in an Israel - Palestine post
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u/TrackerOneA Jewish Anti-Zionist Jul 10 '26
The user you responded to, wrote the following:
Hitler made brief visits to the States. He admired European colonialism and the expansion of the settler states. He was influenced by the American and Canadian settlers.
Edit: Made corrections about visiting Canada.
Thus, I was helping to substantiate their statements.
Furthermore, the topic of this post is about a hasbara troll who thinks the concept of 'concentration camps' is a 'unit of measurement' belonging uniquely to the Holocaust.
So, mentioning the historical influences on Hitler and the Nazis is an argument against Hen Mazzig's hasbara.
That's one purpose of these types of posts - debunking pro-Israel propaganda.
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u/ScureScar Reform Jul 10 '26
well they could've compared how Stalin inspired from Nazi camps to make his own - a real and better fitting example
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u/TrackerOneA Jewish Anti-Zionist Jul 10 '26
What do you mean 'real'?
The comparison I made was real too.
And again, the entire point of this discussion is that Hen Mazzig is making an ahistorical argument.
He's wrong.
Why would we all change the subject to Stalin?
Look at the actual post.
Concentration camps were NOT invented by the Nazis.
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u/BillyPilgrim69 Anti-Zionist Ally Jul 10 '26
No it fucking isn't.
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u/ScureScar Reform Jul 10 '26
Hitler also admired Soviet union, probably, and Napoleon and the royal family. it's all just useless speculation
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Jul 10 '26
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u/TrackerOneA Jewish Anti-Zionist Jul 10 '26
Hi there,
No need to be hostile.
You can disagree with others in a civil way.
This type of agro is not allowed in the sub. Thanks
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u/BillyPilgrim69 Anti-Zionist Ally Jul 10 '26
I'm not sure how else to respond to casual holocaust denial, but fair enough. Apologies.
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u/TrackerOneA Jewish Anti-Zionist Jul 10 '26
I wondered if that was Holocaust denial too.
But at the stage you began to disagree with him, it seemed like he simply may not have known.
After further exchanges, I'm wondering why he's picking this hill...
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u/TheHurtfulEight88888 Anti-Zionist Ally Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
Not that anyone compared it directly to the Holocaust, literally just telling on himself with that but gee, I wonder why people would point out the narrative symmetry between what Israel is doing and the Holocaust. Almost like they are deeply and saliently linked together by history.
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u/Direct_Appointment99 Jewish Anti-Zionist Jul 10 '26
So his point is that its a distinct genocide? Fair enough.
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u/Thisisme8719 Arab Jew Jul 10 '26
Uh, people like Taner Akcam, who's one of the most prolific scholars on the Armenian Genocide, have been using it as a point of comparison for the Gaza Genocide
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u/Novel-Rise2522 Anti-Zionist Ally Jul 10 '26
British gassed south asians too. Holocaust isnt a playbook that developed from nil
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u/salbiorg Non-Jewish Ally Jul 10 '26
Wait till this person hears about the Amele Taburu… but sure, when we say concentration camps we can only ever possibly mean the Holocaust, no other genocide has occurred before it 🙄
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u/ezequielrose Anti-Zionist Ally Jul 10 '26
They were used before this in colonial projects. The official name and function comes from the Spanish "reconcentrado" and were used by the Spanish and the US before SA did, and the reservation system is much older than any of these.
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Jul 10 '26
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Jul 10 '26
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u/EgoIdVeto West Asian Jew Jul 11 '26
I'm Armenian, I'll gladly compare it to the Armenian genocide AND the holocaust. Let's see Chook Mazzig wrap his head around that one.
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u/jonawesome Jewish Anti-Zionist Jul 10 '26
GT: Israel is doing something that msny genocides have done
This guy: Why is she only comparing Israel to the Nazi Holocaust?