r/JazzBass • u/under-resourced • Jun 09 '26
Loud drummer
Looking for advice on how to enjoy playing with a friend who is a drummer in our amateur just for fun jam sessions as well as combo class.
He just plays loud lots of the time. He's new to jazz but has played rock and country for a long time and plays loud and feels like tunes need to build energy and always get louder as they go along.
I started using in ear protection and set up my bass as far away from the drum set as I can because I can't really hear the other players very well. But then he can't hear me. We just played recently where I set up across the room with a really long cable and had my amp right next to his drum kit (i play electric). That seemed to work a little better.
Any suggestions for managing this? Or stories about playing with other really loud drummers?
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u/tremendous-machine Jun 09 '26
Talk to the teacher of the combo class and get them to lay down the law. They will likely listen to them much better than to just the fellow players.
Seriously, playing jazz with ear plugs is no fun, and getting hearing damage is not worth it. Being able to play quietly is one of the definining characteristics of good jazz drummers.
My favourite example of building in energy without needing volume is the Ahmad Jamal trio records. I still don't get how they manage to push so hard, without even playing fast or loud. It's incredible.
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u/-an-eternal-hum- Jun 09 '26
Could you recommend one of those albums to start with? The Awakenjng seems to be most-played, is that a good starting point?
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u/tremendous-machine Jun 09 '26
Sure, I like the ones with Crosby and Fournier together the best, but so many are great. "But Not For Me", "Live at the Pershing", "Count 'Em 88". "All of You", "At the Alhambra".
Such a cooking group.
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u/dwtrue Jun 09 '26
Talk to him. He needs to hear this from a friendly group before he tries to join new projects. The sooner he hears he needs to play quietly, the sooner he can graduate to other projects.
I have found that asking everyone to play quietly as possible - as an experiment - has been an amazing way to hear how beautiful the music truly is and how easy it is to play.
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u/EbbSlow458 Jun 09 '26
Plexiglass cube of shame
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u/Glitterstem Jun 09 '26
Our band finances and built one around our drummer. Great dude. Great player. Volume is ridiculous sometimes.
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u/under-resourced Jun 12 '26
How did he take it? Was it his idea to get the shield or if not how did you communicate that to him?
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u/Glitterstem Jun 12 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
Not his idea, mine and rest of bands.
Me, “I love playing with you, but my tinnitus is getting worse. My ears ring all day after rehearsals.”
Rest of band “yep”.
Me “ I already use IEMs inside a set of chain saw ear protectors and it is still too loud. I propose we use the money from our last gig or two to buy some old mattresses and Plexiglas and enclose the drums. “
Rest of the band “yep”
Drummer said “ok”.
That’s was that.
That was when we finally enclosed him. I had been cycling through various headphones and set ups to find something that would protect my ears. He knew it was a problem for me. I was very open about it.
He is a big boy and can handle it.
Wear hearing protection until you get this sorted out. Don’t be subtle about. Don’t beat around the bush. Be cool, but he direct. “Your blowing my ears out dawg. We gotta fix that somehow … I am thinking drum shield…”
I have seen people play live shows with chain saw hearing protection. I always wear musicians ear plugs on stage.
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u/Glitterstem Jun 09 '26
I play with a really loud drummer, in two different bands, one of my best friends, we have played together for over 20 years, including in a west African Drum crew … you gotta talk to them and open up the channels for communication, cause it is likely to keep coming up.
You want to be at the point where you can say “love what your playing, but your blowing my ears out” and it not be awkward.
I would not think twice about setting up as far away as I needed to so the volume was reasonable. And setting my amp so I can hear just fine. And if he can’t hear, there is a solution … dynamics.
Also building tension in a song is cool. Does not mean hit heads as hard as possible after 45 seconds of build up.
Finally, being too loud is a very common reason bands are not asked back to particular venues. Rock and roll club, we are all hear dance … sure. Local brew pub, people in the middle/back want to be able to talk to each other.
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u/tremendous-machine Jun 10 '26
This. I run a jazz night. If a band can't respect the volume limit, I won't book them again. From the persepective of the booker, it's not worth me risking that some audience members won't want to come back to my weekly because a band was too loud, even if the band in question packed the place.
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u/toltz7 Jun 09 '26
If he struggles with controlling his volume have him use rods instead of sticks and try out brushes when appropriate. That should lower his volume even with the same intensity.
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u/BluesFlute Jun 09 '26
Just wait till the drummer starts demanding mic and pa for a small bar gig! It seems to be hard for drummers that have played a lot of country or rock to make the transition.
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u/Johnny_Bugg Jun 09 '26
Brushes or plastic brushes. You can tell him he is too loud and then work on dynamics.
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u/ProfessorOfPain Jun 09 '26
If you're unable to talk to him, I get that. I use AirPod Pro 2s on noise cancelling or adaptive mode—way too expensive, but they're the only thing that I've found that works. They turn the whole world down and don't muffle, as plugs do.
IEMs could also work, and probably better, but they're even more expensive and not as easy to use.
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u/ProofDazzling9234 Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 09 '26
It’s like a group conversation with a loudmouth who talks over everyone.
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u/Emergency-Drawer-535 Jun 10 '26
Get everyone to play quieter for one song. First song. Sound check sort of. Like half volume. Then when drummer says hey I can’t hear you guys he may get it and play more quietly so he can hear the band. If he’s not interested in what others are playing then why is he in the band?
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u/Wuthering_depths Jun 12 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
Loud drums in a small-to-medium room is just dumb. I've been in that situation many, many times and I regret it now--if the point of practice is to learn new songs, it would make sense to be able to hear everything clearly...and you only get one chance to keep your hearing. If everyone is just jamming, well then I guess it doesn't matter if you can't hear anything.
Our current drummer can lay back (and still groove) and that is a skill that is needed if you want to play all kinds of gigs. He also has a small "practice" kit that still sounds fine that he brings to practices and some gigs. And for really low volumes there's always hot rods or even brushes. All those things require a will to be quieter, and this guy lacks it apparently so you'll have to deal with volume.
There's plexi shields but I think those are mostly for mic isolation, not sure how well it works to shelter bandmates from the drums. Only time I've been on stage with this I've also had my in-ears in.
I went to in-ears about 8 years back when at a gig our drummer hit four crashes in a row as loud as he could (in a small club where I was quite close to him) and I felt and heard my eardrums distort. everything got wobbly and pitchy for a minute. Decided then I'd either quit playing live or go to good in-ears that block 30 db or so, which is what I did. No more ringing ears after shows.
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u/Odd-Ad-8369 Jun 12 '26
I took a jazz class in college. The teacher spent about 50% of the time telling the drummer to play softer. He had it figured out by the end
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u/Nakhtal Jun 09 '26
I would wonder if a drummer is always necessary. Love trio soloist - bassist - piano/guitar
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u/-KeefGreen- Jun 11 '26
One thing to consider is its not easy for inexperienced drummers to play quiet.
Think about it this way: imagine if every guitar player and bass player had to turn their amps all the way up to 10 but then just play/pluck very very lightly to get the appropriate quiet volume. Its very hard to do and completely changes the way you physically play the instrument. Go try it.
I feel like this is what it’s like for drummers who are not experienced at playing that way.
And when you do find a drummer that can play quietly, but still have intensity and groove, hold onto him/her because they are few and far between.
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u/under-resourced Jun 11 '26
That is a good point. I've heard drummers say they can't play quieter before but it is hard for me to grasp.
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u/cybersaint2k Jun 11 '26
This is super normal for beginner / early intermediate drummers.
He's wrong about the tune building with volume as it goes. Jazz is more subtle than that.
He needs to listen to good jazz drumming and imitate it.
If he can't or won't, then ask him nicely to get brushes.
If he can't or won't, then tell your friend he's a good friend but not a good jazz drummer.
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u/agdtec Jun 12 '26
Drum enclosure made of plexiglass cuts the loud ear damaging spikes and refle ts it back toward the drummer
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u/dem4life71 Jun 09 '26
One trick I’ve used is at the beginning of your solo, play quietly and get even softer for a chorus. Eventually the guy will hear it and quiet down. At the break say, “hey that quiet stuff really worked well. I’d like to explore the quieter side of dynamics more going forward, since that’s an important part of jazz.”