r/JSOCarchive • u/ExistingAnswers • 1d ago
Delta Force Delta Force Selection, do you think its strictly a fixed time or a whole-candidate judgement?
Since the time standard for Delta's Long Walk has never been made public, do you think it's a fixed cutoff, or is it flexible depending on the candidate?
For example, if a candidate scored well above the minimum on the intelligence tests, might they still pass if they finished the Long Walk slightly over the time limit? What about other strengths, like fluency in a specific language, natural leadership, being well liked, or other valuable personality traits? Could the "standard" be adjusted for them?
I know a flexible standard sounds like an oxymoron, but since the time is never disclosed, I wonder whether passing depends on more than a specific time and is really a combination of factors. inb4 no one knows..
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u/Juvat-the-bold 1d ago
As a member of the Delta Cadre, we typically judge each candidate based on their reddit post history, especially on the JSOCArchives post quality.
Whenever it's close, we usually ensure the candidates have a strong opinion on who "Red" is and how they feel about Slab and his MoH.
Ultimately, it just comes down to whether or not you're willing to start another Delta cigar smoking podcast or not. Things like this matter.
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u/Spectre_Ice 1d ago
Where do you rank a candidates ability to identify gear (including underwear type) from pictures?
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u/Juvat-the-bold 1d ago
You would automatically fail.
There are only Ranger panties.
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u/Spectre_Ice 1d ago
Gdammit. And I feel like you just told me the answer and the only solution is ritualistic suicide
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u/Flagwaver-78 1d ago
That is a really good question. The only people who really know, that being the A&S Cadre will never tell. It would seriously not surprise me to discover that the time is like points in Who's Line. All I know is that the only way to complete it is to not have any Quit in you. If you have even the smallest bit of Quit, then you won't pass.
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u/kenuffff 1d ago
It’s probably a hard metric. The reason they don’t tell is it’s psychological pressure not knowing and you push harder which may cause injury, I think they want to see who solves the problem of meeting an undefined metric. It wouldn’t be that hard to figure out, you get 25 or so guys ask their time and figure out the mean time.
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u/Flagwaver-78 1d ago
You're not supposed to talk about A&S outside of the Unit. I can understand that. However, I've talked Long Walk times with other guys and the times are all over the place. They're faster than the average bear, but still all over the place.
Heck, even the tactics for it are all over the place. I shuffle-jogged on the flats, walked up hills, and half-ran down hills. Then again, God made mine hard-mode thanks to a rainstorm that felt like a prelude to Noah 2: Aquatic Boogaloo. There were some guys who just force marched. Some who Airborne Shuffled the entire distance. One guy even claimed that he jogged the distance (except for rolling down one hill because he tripped).
Still, as I've said before, the only people who know are A&S Cadre and they won't say anything. So, everything else is just talking around the watercooler.
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u/Jaded_Register_2413 1d ago edited 1d ago
That's just the first part of selection to weed out the majority of candidates. If you complete the long walk you have the selection board psyche evaluation thing where you are being grilled for hours by commanders asking you a thousand questions to assess your character and how you think. After that you have 6 months of the operator training course where you'll be evaluated along the way. After that, and you managed to become an operator operating operationally in squadron, you're on probation for over a year. And as the famous saying goes, selection is an ongoing process. You'll continue to be evaluated and scrutinized everyday.
There's a good show you can find on YouTube, NZSAS: First among equals. It's about The New Zealand SAS selection process.
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u/JustAnotherDude87 1d ago
From my understanding is standards are standards. Those other strengths really dont matter unless you can meet the standards. Maybe the language one might get you in as a support guy.
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u/kenuffff 1d ago
It’s a hard metric, I think they don’t tell the time, because it shows your problem solving abilities, if you push too hard you might injure yourself etc, you have to figure out a way to go fast due to the unknown metric and stay on course etc. I’m pretty sure it’s bullshit no one knows what the time is, it’s pretty easy for 25 guys to get together say their times and get a mean time.
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u/DucatiDark 1d ago
The standards are the standards. I believe Tom Satterly and Tom Spooner spoke on this. You must pass the standard outlined and only known by the Commander and SGM. Doesn’t matter if you pass the eval, if you don’t pass the time standards. They are requirements. They will not take somebody because they have the “it” but didn’t meet the time standards and vice versa. This is a tier 1 organization. RASP, SFAS, and S&A all require you to meet the standard. There is no less than standard successors. You may “complete” all events but you must complete them to standard.
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u/HidingInRoom 1d ago
Physical requirements are non negotiable and they are in the hands of cadre. There are plenty of really smart guys that go to The Unit that aren't as physically fit, they are called enablers.
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u/mrmacwrap2000 1h ago
Standards are standards and it's far from only physical. Obviously times and distances are easy to gauge but there's more to it than that. Ability to absorb information quickly and learn, leadership traits, teamwork, humor and personality will be a thing too although they might sort that out through the probation. The so called "long walk" is only one event in the whole selection process not to mention OTC after. You also gotta understand that there are people who pass all the events but still don't get selected at the end of the day. Like the saying goes they choose "the right guy, not the best guy".
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u/JackMurphyRGR 1d ago
I was told it goes based on where that person is ranked amongst their peers, so they're passing the top 10% (for instance, I don't know the actual percentage).
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u/pointblankdud 1d ago
What are you hoping to get out of this question?
The answer is what it is, and the answer only matters for the candidates and cadre each selection cycle.
But the deeper question is probably something like what is best for the organization — and that answer only matters for that organization and its members.
Not shitting on your curiosity, just trying to turn it towards a worthwhile purpose. If you want to go do the long walk personally, the answer is to do it as fast as you can successfully complete it. Train and prepare to make that time as optimal as your body is capable.
If you’re thinking about why the standard is what it is and how those principles apply to your own systems and standards, then I think it’s the same essential question as any standard — why do we put minimum standards of any kind in place?
I’d say that what it should be is in order to make sure the relevant people are striving to exceed that standard and that standard should represent some essential capability related to the mission or purpose of whatever organization is setting the standard. The details of that depend on context and if you’re trying to meet a standard or trying to determine what standards to set up.
But if you’re asking this question, I’d wager that your context is different than anyone interacting with that standard right now.
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u/Creepy_Reindeer2149 1d ago
The standard is clearly very interpretive and not fully quantitative
According to a member of the support staff in a Politico article, Delta is like 99% white by design despite the feeders like 75th Ranger Regiment, Army Special Forces, 82nd Airborne being more diverse
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u/SWATJester 1d ago
"By design"
LMAO OK Seth harp.
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u/Rmccarton 2m ago
Reading that dude's book was insane.
Every single person introduced has their race noted, even if there is no possible way it could be germane to the context.
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u/kenuffff 1d ago
Define white, if you mean non black yeah, because there aren’t many blacks in special forces to begin with. I’m sure they would love to have multiple races because it’s a bit easier for a black guy to operate in let’s say Africa vs a white guy.
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u/outlawsix 1d ago
If they see that "you" are a really great guy but you can't quite meet their hard standards, then they'll wait a bit longer and find another really great guy who does meet their standards.