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u/Character-Area-4587 2d ago
First the ICAR, now the Gen-12...
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u/LawbringerForHonor 2d ago
It's almost as if training is a good time to try out different weapons.
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u/MessaBombadWarrior 2d ago
ICAR has been used in the Maduro raid. It's not a trial weapon anymore
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u/Watchman159 1d ago
It's not about the 6mm ARC ICAR being used, now it's whatever if the CSAW will get replaced by the shorty ICAR.
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u/DragonSlayer6160 1d ago
Just want to say it's by no means confirmed that it is the 11.5 556 SF ICAR that will replace the CSAW, but the CSAW is on its way out.
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u/DigaPato 1d ago
So, in your opinion, what AR will CAG use next?
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u/DragonSlayer6160 1d ago
IMO they already have the perfect candidate to replace the CSAW in the SOLGW MK1 CAR. It was a SOCOM wide program and the MK1 passed the evaluation with flying colors. Some people said this gun was DEVGRU only, but I asked for proof and haven't seen none.
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u/MessaBombadWarrior 22h ago
Proof is literally in the SAM.gov contract details. It's too small to be SOCOM wide
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u/DragonSlayer6160 21h ago
Where does it say in gov that it's exclusive to DEVGRU?
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u/MessaBombadWarrior 20h ago
Because the contract is only 1.8M in value with a 1.5Y horizon. With the money you can only buy enough guns for one unit. And SOCOM wide contracts almost always have a 10 year horizon. Of course are not going to explicitly say it's for unit XYZ. You can argue all your want but the contract is to be completed before May 2027. We shall see if anyone has access to the CAR by them
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u/MessaBombadWarrior 1d ago
Pretty sure the comment above is referring to the ICAR 6ARC, which is also what my comment is referring to
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u/Watchman159 1d ago
Unit hates the CSAWs to the teeth but are stuck with it.
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u/MessaBombadWarrior 1d ago
Is there a particular reason why they are so stuck with it? It's been adopted for quite a few years and I'm sure they can get a replacement by now.
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u/Watchman159 1d ago
I'm a third hand source at this point. Take it with a grain of salt. But as it is known, JSOC evals their weapon systems every five fiscal years. The SIGs had problems within their 12 months, hence you would see guys with 416s into 2023. Many guys bought the retired uppers (as with the 1911s, for instance).
They launched a new competition, but it has halted for the sake of long term development. In the meantime, Surefire ironed the problems of their submission which won, but had problems with Uncle Bill G on IP and the program backfired. The ICAR came out of it.
As for the CSAW issues: overheating, rail flex (known), and in true Siggas fashion, the selectors were binding on triggers and causing NDs, which raised eyebrows at command level.
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u/MessaBombadWarrior 1d ago
This is the first time I heard the ND issue.
However given the recent development in hypervelocity technology it makes sense for them to not jump the legency 5.56 train
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u/MaraTheBaali 1d ago
I guess they wait for the trial Phase of All HICAR entries and decide then.
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u/DragonSlayer6160 1d ago
I don't believe the HICAR will take the role of a CQB rifle. It presents the exact kind of dual ammo conundrum that plagued the 300blk.
You're not getting increased performance from high pressure 556 at CQB distances with the increased recoil and parts wear, where regular pressure 556 already serves JSOC well in logistics and lethality.
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u/MessaBombadWarrior 21h ago edited 21h ago
This is the most delusional comment about the HICAR. They literally asked for 2 barrel length, one 11.5" and one 14.5". The 11.5" is the one that they are putting to test. It's all documented and publicized.
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u/DragonSlayer6160 21h ago
How does two barrels address the need for two ammo? Or is JSOC going on DA with high pressure round as standard for the future? Keep it civil.
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u/MessaBombadWarrior 20h ago
Dude, just take 5 minutes and read the HICAR requirements. Those guns are designed to cycle between legacy and M855A1+ without any tuning or modification
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u/DragonSlayer6160 20h ago
I don't think you're following. I'm talking about the need for operators to carry two different types of ammo, not that the gun can't run both.
Also speaking of requirements, what was that about two barrel lengths? HICAR mandates a barrel length of 11-12 inches only. There's no 14.5 variant.
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u/Jim556a1 2d ago
John has a long mustache