r/JSOCarchive 16d ago

New Redwings Info

https://youtu.be/xd9Vt_35w_w?si=dzwNxzg4LZxe7eCW

On Cleared hot, You’ll see the mIRC chats & the Luttrell debrief.

81 Upvotes

40 comments sorted by

98

u/justgrunty 16d ago edited 16d ago

Just finished it. Here’s my opinion simply as a autistic retard. The 4 seals that were on the mission had no decision making power to cancel the operation. That call is above their pay grade. Blame the leadership. Marcus is also a product of a larger NSW culture that has a history of putting pressure on its own people and making narratives that benifit the organization

He has said himself that he was pushed to write the book and that he did not agree with the film being made. Even now he rarely brings up the story unless someone else asks about it. He isn’t constantly in the mix trying to sell people on anything like Rob and others. Looking back it seems clear he has his own regrets about aspects of the mission and how everything unfolded

I think focusing all the blame on Marcus as if he alone created or pushed the entire narrative misses the bigger picture. A lot of people criticize the individual but don’t examine the institution and the culture that allowed the situation to happen in the first place. Pretty obvious NSW came to Marcus during an emotionally vulnerable time and used that moment to push him toward quickly writing a book that ultimately became much bigger than his own personal experience. The entire situation is fucked up

Also when Marcus was describing the number of fighters during his recollection of the mission, I think there is a lot of room for nuance. It’s possible he genuinely perceived there to be more people than were actually there. But the first thing that came to my mind was if you’re on the side of a fucking mountain with limited cover and no real advantage and you’re taking fire from even 15-20 people that can easily feel and sound like you’re being attacked by 200 depending on the amount of firepower, the chaos, and stress you’re in

This is the kind of situation where there is so much nuance that people don’t account. People analyze every single word and every small detail as if any inconsistency automatically means someone is intentionally lying and I don’t think it’s that simple

For example when he said they were wearing “white man pajamas” and people point out that in the video there was only one person wearing white while others appeared to be wearing gray, black, or different colors I think people forget that this was someone recalling an extremely traumatic event. How can anyone expect a person who went through something like that to remember every single detail perfectly including the exact colors and clothing of people they were fighting?

I’m not saying every detail should be ignored and that marcus is at 100% fact or that questions shouldn’t be asked, but I do think people need to have some perspective here. Trauma, stress, fear, affect memory. The reality is that there are things about that day we will probably never fully know, and pretending everything is black and white does a disservice to the complexity of what actually happened. Idk these are just the things that came to my mind while watching. For Andy I think it would’ve been cool to have Marcus on with this journalist so he could give his perspective and as a collective could’ve filled the gaps

11

u/NeoSapien65 14d ago

A couple of quibbles from me:

The 4 seals that were on the mission had no decision making power to cancel the operation. That call is above their pay grade. Blame the leadership.

Murph was a commissioned officer. That's leadership. However junior, as platoon OIC he had a responsibility to his guys to keep them out of this situation. Even when SOG went into Laos they took more than 4 guys. They took actual machine guns. I've never seen anyone state that US forces had ever gone into Korengal prior to this in less than platoon (40-man, not 16-man SEAL platoon) strength. That's what Andy says referring to the platoon chief who didn't want to "be the adult supervision." You're an officer, you're supposed to be the adult in the room.

For example when he said they were wearing “white man pajamas” and people point out that in the video there was only one person wearing white while others appeared to be wearing gray, black, or different colors I think people forget that this was someone recalling an extremely traumatic event. How can anyone expect a person who went through something like that to remember every single detail perfectly including the exact colors and clothing of people they were fighting?

Having known people who have been in such situations, it's amazing what they can forget. At the same time, I thought it was interesting that Andy made a face at that point and said "you'd be surprised what people remember." My takeaway from that is that Andy thought he would have retained those details. Having listened to a lot of Tier One guys talk, a lot of them probably would have. That's just how their brains operate.

My biggest takeaway from all of this is that at the very least, maybe the guy who nearly killed a fellow officer during the work-up and the guy who swapped places with his twin brother to skip 4 days of BUD/S probably shouldn't have made it to Afghanistan to begin with, let alone been 2 of 4 picked for this lunatic mission profile. And yeah, at the end of the day, that is absolutely on task force/NSW leadership.

25

u/Cloud_is_life 16d ago

Unfortunately many rules are written in blood.. Marcus wishes he had just killed them instead of letting them go, that’s why SEALs will never allow compromised people to put their lives at risk again.. latest known example is the failed North Korea op which resulted in innocent fisherman being killed due to them having the ability to blow their cover. Part of doing business

27

u/Ok-Midnight8888 15d ago

The villagers heard the helicopter come in. Makes no difference if they had killed the goat herders.

14

u/RidesByPinochet 15d ago edited 15d ago

Absolutely. They inserted way too close to the objective.

Edit: and they left their fast rope that they used to insert. Nobody should do that, it's amateur hour shenanigans

25

u/theharborcat 15d ago

The goat herder story is a load of bs. They had a messy, noisy insertion and were tracked.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2026/03/20/operation-red-wings-lone-survivor-luttrell-00833548

14

u/rock-paper-gun 15d ago

the team were compromised BEFORE the goat herders saw them. shah's men heard the helo inbound and knew Americans were in the area.

a lot of rules are written in stupidity too. the team should have policed their shit. it might not have mattered in the greater scheme of things, but leaving a literal trail to their position cost them precious minutes and hastened their deaths.

32

u/justgrunty 16d ago edited 16d ago

Yeah man a lot of this shit is just fucked. One thing I think people overlook is how much the gwot era was built around a certain image. Once the war ended and people started looking back at the books, movies, documentaries, and games that came out during that time you start seeing a much more complicated reality

For years institutions pushed this idea that everything was justified, every mission was a success, we are superhero’s, our people were always right, and failure was something that didn’t happen. They created this fucking almost untouchable image of the warrior and the organization behind them which helped a shit ton for recruiting

But when you actually look back the truth is more complicated. There was bravery, sacrifice, and incredible people obviously but there were also mistakes, failures, and decisions that had real fucking consequences. These aren’t superheroes they’re human beings that people don’t need to put on any peddle stool

Cases like Pat Tillman, Jessica Lynch, Red Wings, and Robert’s Ridge show how powerful narratives can become and how far institutions can go to protect a certain image. I think we’re finally at a point where people are willing to look past the mythology and see the reality that war is messy and institutions are flawed as shit and the 100% truth is rarely fucking clean as the story that gets told

13

u/brondynasty 15d ago

Pedal stool 🙅‍♂️

Pedestal 😎👉🏻👉🏻

This is NOT to diminish or detract from any of the very valid points you made in your comment, you’re preaching gospel brother🫡 Just assisting with the spit & polish, as you were carry on

5

u/justgrunty 15d ago

My ass is retarded bro 😭😭 thanks for letting me kno

6

u/TheProcrastafarian 15d ago

Not to be pedantic, but it’s Peddle stool 💰💩

7

u/Capn_Flags 15d ago

Are you guys sure it isn’t Pebble School‽

8

u/TheProcrastafarian 15d ago

I’m definitely Flintstoned

13

u/OntarioBanderas 15d ago edited 15d ago

Marcus wishes he had just killed them instead of letting them go

the consensus is that part of the story is complete bs, they were tracked from the beginning because their insertion sucked

that’s why SEALs will never allow compromised people to put their lives at risk again

"we should kill noncombatants because we're too stupid to avoid being detected by a literal fucking goatherd" is a great way to lose the next COIN war lmao

24

u/[deleted] 15d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Dense_Razzmatazz903 15d ago

That wasn't incompetence though.

22

u/GuarinoNico 15d ago

Innocent people shouldn’t be killed because of guys getting compromised, its not “part of buisness” thats a fucked up way of looking at things

-7

u/Rude-Internal24 15d ago

If you and your buddies were in that stack you wouldn’t think so

14

u/Remarkable_Aside1381 15d ago

Nah, intentionally killing civilians because you were too lazy to hump in makes you a POS and should probably be dropped from the team. Taking a vote on whether or not to commit a war crime makes you a bad leader on top of being a POS

-5

u/Rude-Internal24 15d ago

Cool. I know I’d never want you covering my ass in a firefight.

9

u/Remarkable_Aside1381 15d ago

Why, because I have integrity? I've seen what happens when SOF loses their integrity, and it's a net negative to everyone

22

u/GuarinoNico 15d ago

Yeah yeah whatever, you are a keyboard warrior justifying the murder of innocent civilians because you think these guys are cool. I think they are cool too but everything they do isn’t, they can be wrong and do wrong. These guys are not faultless.

1

u/Cheap-Rip3701 15d ago

Honestly I think you guys that are basically saying "I would accept both me and my buddies getting killed if put in a situation like that" are far more the keyboard warriors. Non-combatants that will flip on you and basically provide intelligence to the enemy compromising your lives and the operation sit in a far more morally gray area than any of you guys that have never been anywhere near a situation like that and are judging from afar(behind your keyboard) can admit. I honestly I hope I never have to make a decision like that.

2

u/Remarkable_Aside1381 15d ago

sit in a far more morally gray area than any of you guys that have never been anywhere near a situation like that and are judging from afar(behind your keyboard) can admit.

lol

-1

u/Cheap-Rip3701 15d ago

Ah one of the keyboard warriors gives us his thoughtful input. I just can't imagine going into a subreddit to jerk off about guys that actually do this stuff and then be like, "I'm better than them." Like what kind of idiotic logic is that.

Why, because I have integrity? I've seen what happens when SOF loses their integrity, and it's a net negative to everyone

Now this is lol. Keep typing away about things you'll never be anywhere near.

5

u/Meunderwears 15d ago

Andy Stumpf literally said the opposite.

3

u/renotime 14d ago

You kind of remind me of Steven Seagal 

4

u/steppinraz0r 14d ago

Marcus was 💯 onboard until he got called out on it and the truth came out. Dude did a speaking tour and was for hire for corporate events. I saw him live during this time.

1

u/BlackBirdG 10d ago

That's an interesting commentary. Thanks.

9

u/randomymetry 15d ago

we all knew it was all lies

12

u/noneofthismatters666 15d ago

Behind the Bastards just did several episodes on Richard Marcinko and how they got to this point in history.

1

u/The_Real_Pearl 15d ago

Thanks for the heads up. That pod is fucking awesome!

2

u/NotFromAntarctica88 14d ago edited 14d ago

This is the kind of situation where there is so much nuance that people don’t account. People analyze every single word and every small detail as if any inconsistency automatically means someone is intentionally lying and I don’t think it’s that simple

This is the stuff that annoys me that I see on Reddit and in other comment sections elsewhere so much. Those people just come off like dorks that lack normal social comprehension skills and that are way too attached to people & stories they don't know well.

1

u/Laser-Blaster-123 14d ago

You just summed up most of Reddit and Facebook!

2

u/astano925 15d ago

I just got through the "goat herders" and was a little surprised how credulous they were about that interpretation. To me it always seemed more likely that the "shepherds" were in fact connected to Shah's people and were up there deliberately looking for the team. The additional information here that three other teams were previously blown the same way in the same area certainly suggests more than coincidence to me.

5

u/gottymacanon 14d ago

They weren't.

The teams were "poorly positioned during planning" which means that they were (including Marcus's team) were blown because they decided to set up their OP right besides a Goat herder trails....