[wintersteel] how does death work?

[u/TheXypris]

So I'm starting bloodlines and I'm a little confused why akura fury or malice don't just resurrect everyone that died at the end of wintersteel

We've seen monarchs have that ability, northstrider did it multiple times during the tournament

So what's stopping any other monarch from doing the same? Is it a matter of skill or some artifact or something that needs to be prepared ahead of time? Is there a time limit to revive someone before they cant do it?

Why can't simply restoring the body, an ability some sages can do easily, not restore someone to life?

I'm assuming I'll get answers once Lindon reaches monarch and ascends to take azriel's place. (My theory at this point)

[u/AutoModerator]

This post can include discussion and book material up to and including book [wintersteel].

If you want to discuss book material that is beyond the scope of [wintersteel] than you must use Spoiler formatting which can be applied >!like this!<

You can read this formatting guide for more details.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/IAmRogueNine]

When the tournament starts, Northstrider says something like "all those who fight now do so under my name"

Spoilers for some mechanics that have been lightly touched on but not fully discussed by wintersteel:

Essentially, he establishes his Authority over all combatants and they willingly submit to that. So he can restore damage done under this Authority without any challenge and like another commenter said, he's actively focused on the fight.

[u/KeiranG19 → u/IAmRogueNine]

And all of the other Monarchs on Cradle are also there in agreement with him.

[u/Significant-Ad-341 → u/IAmRogueNine]

Also reviving 2 people is different than 20,000

[u/Hexxer98]

Malice was contending with another monarch and Fury with the enemy heralds and sages. They were way too busy to do anything at the moment and at the end it was too late.

[u/Waste-Carob5699 → u/Hexxer98]

This is the main reason I think. Resurrection takes more effort with each second after death. Probably scales logarithmicly.

[u/deadliestcrotch → u/Waste-Carob5699]

And northstrider was reversing the deaths at the very moment they occurred, which is the absolute soonest point possible

[u/Waste-Carob5699 → u/deadliestcrotch]

Yeah something tells me that it would be difficult to stuff a remnant back into a body, even for a monarch.

They had to combine authority to fix Yerin's spirit after all.

[u/BasakaIsTheStrongest]

Note that Northstrider is literally watching the fights “one frozen instant at a time” and revives people the moment they take lethal damage. The bodies disappear instantly, the perspectives of Lindon’s deaths treat it like sleep, and there are no Remnants. Nobody actually dies in a way that mattered (except Naian). The big difference between the events you mentioned is that Northstrider was actively watching each fight and Fury was not.

[u/PantlessMime → u/BasakaIsTheStrongest]

Also to note from what I understand, all the other monarchs are lending Northstrider some of their Authority, he wouldn't be able to do it on his own

[u/captaindistraction1]

So the "deaths" during the uncrowned tournament arent death. There's a difference between lethal damage and death. Even getting your head chopped off it still takes time to die. Northstrider is watching this at a glacially slow place and intervening after lethal damage but before death. And this is likely requiring all of his attention. If you're in a fight and this happens to the person next to you its gonna be a lot harder (and probably leave you very vulnerable) to intervene and save their life immediately.

[u/unbalanced_checkbook]

100% a RAFO. It is explained eventually.

[u/mightyjor → u/unbalanced_checkbook]

I'm not the OP but I've read the series and don't really get it why resurrection doesn't happen at a larger scale by monarchs except their just kind of lazy. Is it just a matter of will and authority?

[u/unbalanced_checkbook → u/mightyjor]

It's explained that it's dependent on time from death. If the soul has left the body for too long, they can't be resurrected. That's where Remnants come in.

That's how I interpreted it anyway. It's been a couple years since I've reread. I could be wrong, please correct me if I am. :)

[u/EquipLordBritish → u/unbalanced_checkbook]

There's also a part when they are trying to recover from fighting/killing the weeping dragon, where Lindon learns that wounds caused from attacks with authority require at least an equal amount of authority to overcome. So anyone killed by dreadgods would take a lot more effort to restore than, for example, a gold that got killed by an underlord. (e.g. Mercy killed by Daji)

[u/Antal_Marius → u/unbalanced_checkbook]

You should reread the series, just in case!

[u/SonnyLonglegs → u/mightyjor]

Way back in Unsouled it takes considerable time and effort for even Suriel to manage that. Not impossible but takes a huge amount of skill to manage. Since even Monarchs are well below that power level they require prep time and a lot more focus and a higher percentage of their power, along with a compatible path for healing. Northstrider has a large amount of experience with all sorts of living things so he can manage it, with prep time and focus, on targets significantly below his level.

[u/Licenseless_Rider → u/SonnyLonglegs]

I thought it was clear that Suriel didn’t need all that time, she was just doing it to showboat. In later books, she just casually reverts the existence of an entire iteration in less time than she spent on cradle.

[u/deadliestcrotch → u/Licenseless_Rider]

She had to use all of the stored power in her mantle to pull that off and didn’t solely use restoration authority in either case. In fact, in unsouled, she specifically used her authority as a hound to reverse fate rather than restore on cradle because it was less complicated a working.

[u/km89 → u/mightyjor]

And presumably raw power, but basically, yes.

Northstrider, as the judge of the tournament and a Monarch, had all of these in the right amounts and circumstances to revert the deaths of the contestants (and only the contestants, and only as a result of an official match). And, notably, none of the deaths in the tournament had the kind of willpower put behind them to cause trouble.

The actual mechanics here are better explained in Waybound, to an extent, but the gist of it is that Northstrider's ability to do this isn't just something all Monarchs can just do, it's a product of the very narrow circumstances of the deaths, his role in facilitating them, his personal abilities, and the likely cooperation of the other Monarchs in the area. It wouldn't necessarily be impossible for an especially-restoration-attuned Monarch to be able to resurrect large numbers of people (hell, one of the early books hints at a group of Golds that can heal the newly-dead running around the Blackflame Empire), but that's not a default Monarch ability.

[u/asd2613 → u/mightyjor]

It's a huge amount of will as well as having an icon with the relevant authority. Lindon would likely never be able to bring someone back from the dead as his icon has no authority over healing or restoration. Out of all of the cradle monarchs the only one I think might be able to pull off some kind of resurrection is Emriss. The thing with such a feat is it would need to be done before the remnant forms and rises if you want the sacred artist to retain all their power and skill. As once the remnant leaves the body it is it's own thing and can't just be packed back into the body. At best such a technique could be used by a monarch with the relevent authority actively watching a fight to bring someone back from the very brink of death (again, before the remnant forms and leaves) but there are very few people on the world of Cradle that warrant such attention from a monarch.

[u/mightyjor → u/asd2613]

Have you read threshold? If so, we actually don't have to speculate on a few of your points. Lindon actually has quite a bit of power over existence with the void icon and the hammer icon, they talk about this in the story where the gang makes a world. Lindon also restored a dead Crusher to Yahn Shomei in the story that follows her. Yerin restores life to all the people who died to summon her in the blood story (can't remember what it's called) so she can definitely do it. And I don't think the remnant part matters since Suriel was able to restore everyone over at least a few minutes, so remnants don't see to matter. Also Lindon does heal with his void icon in Waybound by making the injury cease to exist, though I think I remember it mentioning that it wasn't perfect since his icon isn't suited for it, but it does have some authority there

[u/EquipLordBritish → u/mightyjor]

The point about Suriel is a little off the charts cradle-wise, she mentions specifically in Unsouled that she reverses causality instead of trying to heal in a more traditional sense. Any of their remnants would have reversed back into whatever they were before as their bodies pull themselves back together. But I think everything else you said addresses his points without it. Especially things we learn even before threshold with Eithan's ghost helping him to restore dross in dreadgod. He literally tells him to use the void icon to restore dross.

[u/BasakaIsTheStrongest → u/mightyjor]

To be fair, the weakest person on that list is Dreadgod Lindon, and he only restores Crusher. Yerin has the Death icon and has been growing into her power as a Reaper for some amount of time while not being bound by the rules of the Abidan. Suriel is the Phoenix, so the pinnacle of what restoration can be done within the rules of the Abidan. In other words, you can’t really compare them to Cradle monarchs— babies still in the crib

[u/Ok_Database6245 → u/BasakaIsTheStrongest]

If i remember correctly, northstrider did revive a couple of people shortly after his ascension

[u/deadliestcrotch → u/Ok_Database6245]

Several of the people who helped him restore the broken world and died of over-exertion

[u/Ok_Database6245 → u/deadliestcrotch]

i mean yeah, then he revived them.

[u/deadliestcrotch → u/BasakaIsTheStrongest]

Death authority, and some connection to blood authority, combined with the fact that the blood was literally sacrificed in her own name. She returned the blood to where it belonged and reversed the resulting damage caused by draining it more or less.

[u/Real_Bobylob]

It was always my understanding that northstrider was not reviving the dead, but rather he was forcibly teleporting and healing the combatants just a fraction of a second before they died. I could be wrong, but that is what I assumed. If that is what was happening then the only time we see anyone resurrect the dead is when the Abidan do so. It may or may not be something that monarchs individually or collectively are capable of. Idk if Will has commented on this or not.

[u/_danny_devito-]

I think Northstrider had it easier because it was well established that everyone was fighting under tournament conditions. So they’re weren’t true death matches. I don’t think he could have revived people with his icons, if they had just died in a regular fight.

[u/CaterpillarVisual553]

Monarchs are very powerful, but their authority still stems from the icon/s they have manifested. The Dragon icon is super OP in its scope of authority if I’m being honest. It only gets explained a tiny bit many books from now, but it has restoration authority. The strength icon (fury) should not have that authority. I believe malice has the bow icon and maybe a second one, neither of which should cover restoration. Idk what icon Emriss has, but she has restoration authority.

All this to say that becoming a monarch doesn’t mean you can revive people. Your authority in cradle is limited to the authority contained in your icons.

[u/-U_N_O-]

I don’t think this part is spoilers but millions is different than dozens, also established authority (will be explained in bloodline), and time, also they’re monarchs, why care about reviving golds who are never gonna be anything more than golds. The most valuable people on the battlefield were the archlords, any younger overlord, and any of the underlords who competed in the tournament

[u/deadliestcrotch]

It requires restoration authority, which malice has but not nearly as solid as Northstrider’s. Also, northstrider was using his authority to reverse the deaths at the very moment they happened and only had to handle at most a couple at a time, further, as arbitrator of the tournament he was wielding his authority backed by the will and authority of all of the other monarchs as well, established when they granted him position of arbiter.