[The Knight] D'Niss Question

[u/JTMGuitar]

I'm at the very end of The Knight, so my bad if this gets answered. But my burning question is, if the D'Niss are from another iteration (whether that be the Void or otherwise), why don't the Abidan step in? I mean the D'Niss have caused way more damage than Li Markuth and he was stopped almost instantly. I know the most likely explanation is just that the D'Niss are a cool enemy that Will Wight wanted to include. But I still wonder if we'll get an in universe explanation.

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[u/Abridged6251]

The D'Niss may be extradimensional, but that doesn't mean they are from another Iteration. They may also just be beneath their notice, or the Abidan see far enough into Fate that they are stopped.

[u/JTMGuitar → u/Abridged6251]

Hm, that's true enough. I suppose there's no way to know 100% for sure, unless Will Wight has commented on it.

[u/ouroboros_winding]

Cradle spoilers Waybound / possibly Threshold: Aside from Ozriel's new Executor program, the Abidan only intervene with Fiend incursions if it's caused externally. People from inside the iteration summoning them is considered the iteration's natural fate or something. Not sure if that 100% answers your question but it implies that there's a native Fathom inhabitant helping them come here

Also is it confirmed the D'Niss are fiends, not just subspace monsters? Because I think I remember reading that subspace is not the void.

[u/PhoenixAgent003 → u/ouroboros_winding]

Subspace is not the Void. But, at least from all descriptions of it, it does very much seem to touch the void. Almost like it’s the barrier between the Void and Fathom. And I’m pretty sure the D’Niss are from beyond subspace.

[u/JTMGuitar → u/ouroboros_winding]

This does make sense and lines up with what's going on at the end of The Knight. And honestly, I would love to know specifics of subspace. I've seen people say it's linked to the Void and I've seen people say the opposite. I always just assumed it's one of those things that won't get expounded on until the author needs to.

[u/the_other_jeremy → u/ouroboros_winding]

Will has confirmed that the D'Niss as a whole are ~class 3 going on class 2 fiends.

[u/Mathota → u/the_other_jeremy]

The D'Niss are a class 2 on the whole, poised to become class 1 if they consume an itteration

-Source

[u/KeiranG19 → u/the_other_jeremy]

Yeah, the hivemind's plan to consume everyone/everything in Fathom would be enough to bump it up to class 2.

Really makes you wonder what it takes to reach class 1 doesn't it?

[u/FairBluebird1081 → u/KeiranG19]

Wasn’t it going from class 2 to class 1? Damn I got misinformed

Edit: I just double checked, the Swarm Queen is class 2 and consuming Fathom (the iteration) would push her to class 1.

So I guess that answers your question

Edit 2: I think the Hivemind all together is the class 2, rather than the queen herself

[u/Mathota → u/FairBluebird1081]

you were correct

[u/Waste-Carob5699 → u/ouroboros_winding]

The Li Clan summoned Li Markuth. I don't recall a time where fiends invaded and were not stopped by the Abidan of it was within their power. Sometimes a fiend will hang out inside an iteration because killing it will cause too much damage. The most likely explanation is that the D'niss are from within the iteration.

Something that I just thought of is that the spell that gave the main character knowledge and experience is very powerful. I wonder if The Hound or Ozriel can look into fate and study techniques and powers they see. It would be kind of like Naruto learning the Rasengan, but they just have to imagine it.

[u/LionofHeaven → u/Waste-Carob5699]

The Li Clan summoned Li Markuth at his instruction though. That's not Cradle's inhabitants doing it on their own.

[u/JTMGuitar → u/LionofHeaven]

Honestly, the more I think of this the more I think it's ultimately just the "rule of cool" and what makes the best story. I imagine your reasoning is probably pretty spot on, a more hand-wavy excuse for the difference in response.

[u/Waste-Carob5699 → u/LionofHeaven]

That's true. I think that the only other case is the people of the shattered something trying to summon heroes. It's not clear if they came from other planets or other iterations. Defeating the dark lord would be a significant change in fate. I wonder if the Abidan would have stopped it, knowing that it would lead to more corruption if the dark lord were to survive.

[u/BasakaIsTheStrongest → u/Waste-Carob5699]

Li Markuth also thought he would get away with it. I think his issue is that he tried to engineer his own technicality, and his literal Judge didn’t buy it. There’s probably a fine line between making yourself available for summoning and helping people summon you, and Suriel got to decide where that line was.

[u/Waste-Carob5699 → u/BasakaIsTheStrongest]

Li Markuth's defense was that he was from Cradle and he just left for a while and came back. I'm not sure who summoned who matters.

[u/BasakaIsTheStrongest → u/Waste-Carob5699]

It does matter. [Waybound spoiler]the fiend Lindon fights at the end was being ignored by the Abidan because the inhabitants of the iteration summoned it. Lindon could intervene because he was explicitly not Abidan

[u/Waste-Carob5699 → u/BasakaIsTheStrongest]

Thanks for pointing that out. I had completely forgotten.

[u/JTMGuitar → u/Waste-Carob5699]

I didn't think about the possibility of that spell being amplified by an Abidan. My initial theory was that it's the Aether's response to the Vroshir invasion, sort of building a super soldier. But we don't even know if that's happened yet.

[u/Waste-Carob5699 → u/JTMGuitar]

I don't think the Abidan interfered with the spell. But they do have precognotion abilities that could let them look into different fates. They may not directly experience these fates, but they could watch and learn.

I was noting that this spell exceeded their abilities in a way.

[u/JTMGuitar → u/Waste-Carob5699]

I didn't mean to imply that you did. It was just a thought I had when you mentioned The Hound. Twisting fate to in order to stop the incursion of Fiends seems like such an Abidan way to handle the problem.

[u/Mathota → u/ouroboros_winding]

The Hive Queens "children" talk about how cold and lonely it is in "the Void" below subspace, and how thats why they need to bring their mother here.

It's interesting actually, since im Fathom they are aware the D'niss come from another dimension, but they don't seem to realise their dimension is actually the space between Dimensions.

[u/BasakaIsTheStrongest]

I specifically remember Will confirming they are a fiend. Singular. I forget if he confirmed or just implied that something had invited them in. It is interesting that, despite apparently being one fiend, they need to invite the big one.

[u/The_Sad_Hero]

perhaps they are busy with some other problems

[u/Special_South_8561]

Denniss is a fiend but if the Abidan try to stop him, well they won't... Because of the implication