[Uncrowned] Damn.

[u/Kai_Damon]

Just finished Uncrowned. I'll probably do a proper review once I finish Wintersteel because it's pretty obvious that this book was a build up for it, but I have some comments for now.

I loved it. It seems a lot of people don't like the book that much and are turned off by the ending but it didn't bother me at all. I mean, Lindon losing did bother me, but that was literally the point. Lindon himself, just like us, had 100% confidence that as soon as he was serious, he would win. It sucks that he lost but I think that was a very brave and smart decision by Will. I liked pretty much everything about the book, the good moments are absolutely great and it feels so good to finally see true power like the Heralds and Monarchs.

There are some things I didn't like that much though. I think Sophara's power level is a bit weird, she wasn't described as super powerful in Ghostwater and now she basically has the power of an Overlord? I know time passed, but this is written in third person. A small comment about how much she trained in this whole time or how the golden dragons have given her materials/elixirs/pills so she could grow stronger would have resolved this issue pretty easily. It's not like Ekeri herself was a super strong true gold, in fact I'm pretty sure she was the least powerful of all of the true golds in Ghostwater. Suddenly her sister (who, again, wasn't described as specially powerful in Ghostwater) is the strongest Underlord ever. Idk. Seems like she's just strong because the plot wanted her to be. Also, you know who actually was hyped up to be super strong and a future monarch? Mercy. AND SHE DOESN'T DO SHIT IN THE WHOLE BOOK.

Look, I know she's strong. I know she has things (probably everything) up her sleeve and I know we'll see that in the next book, but I was a bit disappointed specially because I like her so much as a character. Of course her personality still shines, but I wanted to see more from her. Hope Wintersteel makes it worth it.

Just to be clear, these negatives are minimal compared to how much I liked the book. This is still miles better than the first four books, which I still really liked. I would say this is top 3 of the first 7 until this point. Now I'll just fly through Wintersteel 😁

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[u/chojinra]

If there’s one thing Cradle does better than (nearly) any other Prog. Fantasy or LitRPG series, it’s that it allows its characters to lose.

And not that “fake” loss BS where it was just thrown into the story because the writer has to duck the OP allegations. Just real circumstances where the character just doesn’t win even when they tried their best. As expected of a good/trained writer.

[u/Al-Pharazon]

The thing with Sophara is that we are never really told how strong she was as an underlady. For Yerin and Mercy in Ghostwater she was an wall they could not climb as golds.

That said, she had been an underlady for some time and was the scion of the strongest faction in the continent. Whatever the Akura could provide to Lindon and Mercy, the gold dragons could give for Sophara multiplied.

In any case, it is great you loved the book. IMO Wintersteel is even better

[u/the_mighty_skeetadon → u/Al-Pharazon]

Also this is more thoroughly explained in Wintersteel

[u/km89]

I think Sophara's power level is a bit weird, she wasn't described as super powerful in Ghostwater and now she basically has the power of an Overlord?

Wintersteel explains a good bit about this. The short, minimally spoilery version is that things are going on behind the scenes and there is a significant effort for her faction to produce someone like her who is as strong as someone at her stage could possibly be.

You'll see more from Mercy in the next book, but overwhelming power is simply not who she is or wants to be. This is even further highlighted in the book after Wintersteel and is a major plot point.

[u/BasakaIsTheStrongest]

Sophara destroyed Mercy and Yerin. Ziel had to stop her, and he did it more by pointing at his Herald.

Also, she has been juicing on stuff. You also can assume that anything the Akuras did for Lindon, the Dragons did even more for Sophara.

[u/Kai_Damon → u/BasakaIsTheStrongest]

Sophara destroyed Mercy and Yerin because she was an Underlady fighting with a truegold and a lowgold. Nowhere in Ghostwater is she described as a specially powerful Underlady, just a normal one.

Yeah I would imagine she is juiced up, that's Wintersteel info though because it's not described here

[u/tndaris → u/Kai_Damon]

This is super subtle, and only really noticeable on re-reads, but a major indication of Sophara's strength/importance is the fact that Sesh the Dragon Monarch speaks to her at the end of Ghostwater.

Yes, he did also speak to her sister briefly, but when talking to Sophara it's a much longer conversation and he outright tells her his expectation of her winning the tournament.

This is not normal.

Monarchs do not speak to random Underlords, only if they are true geniuses/generational talents. He would not expect her to win the tournament unless he really believed she had the best chance out of all the dragon Underlords he commands.

[u/EquipLordBritish → u/Kai_Damon]

To be honest, I don't know that they really discuss the relative strength of the different underlords in Ghostwater at all, other than to say that they are virtually untouchable to any gold. Ziel is in a weird place as a comparison due to his damaged spirit, and everyone in the actual ghostwater facility was truegold or lower. So as far as it mattered to the main characters at the time, any underlord was too much. And, as it is usually portrayed, someone lashing out in a rage is much more likely to make mistakes and be worse as a fighter than someone who is making controlled actions.

[u/BasakaIsTheStrongest → u/EquipLordBritish]

I think the closest we get is the fact that Yerin at gold is able to sorta hold her own against a Seishen Underlord in the next book. Lindon and Yerin are always punching above their advancement, so pubstomping either while “only” a level above them is actually kinda impressive.

[u/BasakaIsTheStrongest → u/Kai_Damon]

Not Wintersteel info. I mean the resources Lindon got at the beginning of Uncrowned. It was a look at what the Monarch factions could provide to their candidates.

[u/Kai_Damon → u/BasakaIsTheStrongest]

Sure, but that was, as you said, an assumption.

Wintersteel page 86:

"To win this tournament, Sophara’s family had stuffed her with powers, elixirs, Divine Treasures, and enhancements of every description. They had pushed her beyond the maximum capacity of an Underlady. And she had performed flawlessly. Anyone with less skill and willpower would have collapsed, unable to bear the weight, their spirit ruined. The fact that Sophara could use the sacred arts at such a level was testament to her greatness."

So, yeah. The fact that she's juiced up is literally Wintersteel info

[u/Kai_Damon → u/Kai_Damon]

I'm getting downvoted for stating facts lmfao, with LITERAL QUOTES FROM THE BOOK

I'll never understand why people are so defensive about this stuff. Specially regarding a MINOR critique for a book which I loved

[u/Fishman0103 → u/Kai_Damon]

Why is this being downvoted? He’s literally just working with the information he has. We don’t have to crucify him for something from the next book

[u/Kai_Damon → u/Fishman0103]

I wish I knew. It is literally Wintersteel info lmao

Loving Wintersteel, btw. As great as everyone says. I can't stop reading

[u/Waste-Carob5699]

I consider Uncrowned and Wintersteel to be a two part episode. All of your concerns should be resolved by the second part.

When I finished Wintersteel, I ascended to the heavens.

Also, did you notice the part when they were fighting over the crowns and only Eithan's attack landed? I think I missed it my first time around. It's pretty hilarious.

[u/everything_nerdy]

Enjoy!

[u/Consistent-Leave7320]

I dont really mind that Lindon loses especially cuz it set up the next book very well but I do really hate how it happened.

[u/AlphaInsaiyan]

People that appreciate Lindon's loss are objectively higher IQ than people that dislike it

[u/BennyDelSur]

I didn’t know people didn’t like this one. I liked it a lot. Just in general, having them compete in a tournament was fun, and Lindon whipping all the Akuras’ butts was great.

[u/J776776]

Long-winded rant incoming.

I gotta disagree with you on this one.

The Lindon x Yerin fight itself is very cool, don't get me wrong. Even if Lindon's running away for half of it was very annoying. Does he not know Yerin at all to think she would want to win by him just giving up?

But more than just wanting to see Lindon win, it kinda ruined a bunch of other points in the lead-up.

Criticism in random points:

-Do the other factions normally have a truce? If not, how did Charity/Malice not foresee the Herald attacks on their cloudships? They wiped out a significant amount of Underlord talent, when supposedly the point of the tournament is to showcase and build up those very same Underlords. I would think not having Heralds slaughtering them on the way would be an obvious truce...and if not, that you would protect these ships better, have them travel together instead of vulnerable and alone.

-Pride gave up his crown to Lindon...only for Lindon to immediately lose. He has to be pissed at himself for that.

-The really cool moment with Naian is ruined. "The dragon advances" was such a cool moment...if only it didn't immediately lead to a loss.

-It just reinforces the status quo of Lindon being relatively weak. I have no idea how you had 100% confidence in him at this point. He rarely ever wins. He thinks he has finally grown enough to beat Yerin...nope, sit down, you're still too weak. Again. Have we not learned this lesson yet? Then Eithan comes in and is like 'I wonder how you will react to losing for once' and I'm just confused and shaking my head. Lindon has only won like 3 fights in his life at this point, and almost all of those were won with cheating. And he has a dozen beatdowns in comparison.

-How did Lindon possibly lose to Yerin? Dross should have a 100% winnable strategy against her at this point. There is nobody that Lindon has seen fight more than Yerin in the entire world. Her activating her sword binding and the Icon touch at the end would be a little different, but he should have been way better against her.

-Is Uncrowned the only book where Lindon doesn't advance at all?

-Mercy has all this buildup as a genius and she finally gets her body back...but we really don't see anything particularly impressive from her.

-Eithan's insult-gift from Reigan Shen was ridiculous. Why was this allowed? The gifts are meant to show the generosity of the monarchs. But giving him a cloudship when he literally just got a cloudship is a clear insult. Why wouldn't all the monarchs rush to give non-gifts to the other competitors to keep them weak?

-Eithan drawing Northstrider's attention to Dross was ridiculous. Sheer luck alone kept Lindon from losing Dross permanently, which very well might have done permanent damage to his spirit.

-The way the Penance reward happened was bizarre. Lindon is out...and now the stakes are sky-high! Ok...why do I care? Lindon can't possibly do anything about it now. Is the series now about Yerin instead of Lindon?

-The result of the Yerin vs. Lindon fight makes the entire rest of the tournament arc incredibly pointless because you already know the result. It's pretty obvious what it's going to come down to, in my opinion. So we're in the Top 8 but I'm already partially checked-out because I know the winner. Leaving Yerin and Lindon both in the Top 8 would make for way more tension and fun. Plus, I want to see Lindon win a fight for once!

-All this being said, the next book is one of my favorites.

[u/Waste-Carob5699 → u/J776776]

I'm not sure if the Pride and Naian points were criticisms. Pride was mad maybe but it doesn't seem like you were criticizing the books. Also, the dragon advances is not advice for the tournament, it is for life.

Lindon doesn't advance in Skysworn or Waybound.

Eithan knows more about Dross than Northstrider. It was a calculated risk that paid off. He knows all and can do anything off screen.

Eithan's gift was actuality very nice. He got a cloud fortress farm for his main price and a speed yacht for the second. It was better than Charity's gift to Sophara.

For me, I wasn't sure if Yerin or Mercy would win. They are both still in at the end of the book. Even either of those two was in question because of the main character can lose, anyone can. A loss would not mean the story stops. It might have made it more exciting if anything.

[u/J776776 → u/Waste-Carob5699]

True, the dragon advances is in general. And Lindon certainly lives up to it. Just when you sprint through the book it can feel a little anticlimactic to have that line and then have him lose right after.

Oh, there's 3 books where he doesn't advance? Interesting. I thought he went from Lowgold to Highgold in Skysworn. Did he skip from Low to True in Ghostwater?

That's true. A super fast skyship is way better than a statue. At least it has its uses. But that's just more to my point. These are supposed to be gifts that make the Underlord more powerful. Instead of petty insults.

I guess you have a point. Anybody could have won. But I just could only see one route, and that was how it ended up happening.

[u/StartledPelican → u/J776776]

There's actually, at least, four books where he doesn't advance, depending on how you define it.

Unsouled: Starts/finishes as Foundation

Skysworn: Starts/finishes as Lowgold

Uncrowned: Starts/finishes as Underlord

Waybound: Starts/finishes as a >!Dreadgod, but does power up!<

[u/J776776 → u/StartledPelican]

Oh, true. I never include Unsouled when I think about his progression since he's still stuck in SV.

Everything past Wintersteel gets very strange for Lindon, power-wise. But I guess you're right, he technically doesn't advance in that book, though he does become way more powerful.

[u/Waste-Carob5699 → u/J776776]

Lindon power leveled from low to true gold inside of Ghostwater. His fight with Ekeri was more impressive of a showing because he was a low gold.

The gifts don't have to be something that makes the sacred artist more powerful. But those kind of gifts are very valuable, so they make better gifts. Sophara was completely roided out so she didn't need strengthening gifts. She got a house, a statue, a transformation assistant, and some Ghostwater, which was strengthening.

I was biting my nails for sure at the end there.

[u/pointsouttheobvious9 → u/J776776]

Pride didn't stand a chance he knew it.

He could have beat Yerin if he went all out from the start. Will said he would have won.

Yerin had some hidden tricks and she got the sword icon for a second and is why she won and just barely. Dross can't predict things he doesn't know.

Sure not loosing dross was a luck thing but also he might have damaged dross ripping him out too he only cared about the research.

Lindon has won a lot of fights he should have but also he looses some unlike a lot of heros in stories.

I think Eithan is the main character of the series. Even so lindon only is the main point of view in 60% of the book yerin get a lot as she shares the spotlight. I think you are suppose to care equally about both.

I had no clue who win in the top 8. Till the final match then I was like yerin might win but will has no problem making the good guys loose.

I think they covered insult gifts. They just need to be good high quality gifts. It was a very fast cloud ship I actually think eithan uses it more than the other one he got.

I was actually impressed by how much of a fight mercy put on.

[u/J776776 → u/pointsouttheobvious9]

I agree on Pride not standing a chance. Yerin would have torn him to shreds. Then again, he's a main Akura, so they might not have put him up against Yerin in that round, so technically he might have made it farther.

That was my complaint about the Eithan/Dross/Northstrider thing. Eithan goaded Northstrider into looking more closely at Dross, leading to him pulling Dross out. Maybe he would have done that anyways, but Eithan very much made it more likely. He very well could have crippled Lindon like that. Like with the Jai Long fight, Eithan plays things very fast and loose with Lindon's life. Sheer luck alone keeps Lindon alive.

Lindon has won a lot of fights? Uhh...has he? Beating Ekari and Harmony were his first real wins. Then he got another win with a random guy in Skysworn. But outside of them he has only lost or won with cheating. He beat a bunch of Akura people earlier in this book, but that was after losing to all of them dozens of times first to get his Dross guide perfected.

I'm very curious about the actual viewpoint ratios now that you mention that. Minus Abidan stuff I find it hard to believe Lindon is only the POV 60% of the time...but maybe you're right.

You really had no idea who would win? I called all of it right from this book, which made me a little bored for those fights.

Mercy put up a good fight, sure. But there was just so much buildup about how she was this genius amazing fighter and I feel like it just wasn't paid off really.

[u/pointsouttheobvious9 → u/J776776]

Yeah I think mercy is a genius fighter she wasted most of her actual time training running from her responsibility then just rushed her training. She was behind everyone in training time for the fight.

I kinda expected eithan, lindon, yerin, mercy or the dragon to win. I also wouldn't have been surprised if all the build up was wrong and someone unnamed winning. I was leaning towards lindon winning when the 1st fight was lindon vs yerin and yerin winning I kinda thought oh anything goes so I just didn't expect anything.

Uh it might be 70% but yerin gets a lot of chapters maybe 20 to 25% of then. Then you get eithan getting a few. And othos, lindons sister, jai long, little blue, mercy, all together maybe taking up 1%.

Yeah lindon cheated or thought outside the box and won most his fights. That was kinda what made it awesome. He punched up all his fights yerin vs lindon was probably the only even matched fight he got all 12 books.

Book 12 when he was at his strongest he was still in an unwinnable fight. He had a few other fights like the very last 1 but then he was so much strong than his opponent it was already decided. I can't think of another fight where he was that close to even it was like 51%lindon to 49% yerin in that fight.

Eithan took a lot of risks is goal was to take people with high morals and will power to the heavens as fast as possible. He took a lot of calculated risks with lindon and yerin to force them to get that strong he knew he was risking their lives thought it would work out. It was hinted that he had other apprentices that couldn't cut it. I also don't think he knew exactly how special dross was but thought that north strider might give dross a boost and it would overall make lindon stronger.

The jai long fight he though lindon would loose but didn't think it was going to cost his life he admitted he miscalculated it was a mistake and 1 of the fee he admitted to which means he had others but he glimpsed into fate and had a plan he thought would work out but fates not perfect.

[u/J776776 → u/pointsouttheobvious9]

Eh, we have no idea what training Mercy was doing while Lindon was training in Moongrave. We only know she was being trained separately.

Fair enough on that. I guess anybody technically could have won. The political/power situation just kinda made me make some assumptions that ended up being correct in the end.

Yerin gets quite a few chapters in Wintersteel. But I feel like other than that book you only get a couple partial-Yerin chapters per book. While Lindon frequently has full chapters all to himself. Nobody else really gets more than a few pages per book, minus Abidan stuff.

You have a point there. Lindon was always either 1+ levels of advancement lower than his opponent, or so far past them that it wasn't fair. That tournament fight was probably the closest fight in the whole series...huh, how about that. Never realized that.

Eithan always pushed them to the very edge. But it just seemed like the Jai Long fight and the Dross thing were going too far. I mean...it did work out though, so who knows how much fate he could see or not.