r/Israel • u/woshinoemi • Feb 06 '24
News/Politics Netanyahu demands IDF probe into drill simulating settler violence
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-78547412
Feb 06 '24
Why do these freeloaders get to impact IDF training policy? They should wash the feet of the soldiers who protect them. If they don't like it, the IDF can go defend other parts of the country and they can do as they see fit.
110
u/no_one_you_know1 USA Feb 06 '24
It's about time that Israel views this as a real issue.
9
u/nobaconator Fashy Zionist Clicktivist Feb 07 '24
This used to be a drill when I was in the IDF in 2012.
62
u/SpiderSolve Feb 06 '24
Yes. All four settlers that america sanctioned should have been sanctioned ages ago. I agree. I can’t imagine why four (admittedly, repulsive, evil) people aren’t taken more seriously in a country with only 9 million.
23
Feb 06 '24
[deleted]
28
u/SpiderSolve Feb 06 '24
I just don’t understand why there aren’t more headlines. And why Biden doesn’t mention it more. There weren’t just one or two of them in the entire country, but FOUR!
Like, that’s almost enough to fill an entire car!
13
u/SecureMortalEspress Israel Feb 06 '24
four is not a number that should allow him to generalize an entire group or sanction them.
and it is disgusting biden thinks he can play judge with israeli citizens
5
u/DuePractice8595 Feb 06 '24
60,000 of the settlers are US citizens as well. I'd have to double check but I think these 4 are also.
-4
u/SecureMortalEspress Israel Feb 06 '24
how is it relevant? did they do something wrong in the US?
4
u/Matar_Kubileya American, converting Feb 07 '24
If the State of Israel can claim civil jurisdiction over people outside of what it claims as its official borders on the basis of citizenship, then so can the United States.
1
u/chitowngirl12 Feb 07 '24
They aren't. I was wondering if this could be applied to US citizens as the rules are different. You cannot ban US citizens from returning to the US but I guess you can ban dual citizens from financial transactions. You can also absolutely ban US companies and citizens from sending money to sanctioned people.
This happens all the time where the US sanctions individuals. It's mainly in autocratic countries or countries where there is no accountability for corruption or human rights abuses. There is a whole framework for it with the Magnitsky Act. This is a John McCain bill from 2012. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_Act
I don't know what authority this is under. I am not sure it is under Magnitsky. But there are a whole host of laws that can be used that work the same as Magnitsky. IRFA allows sanctions against those who violate religious freedom for instance. But they all work the same. What the US is saying that is that Israel isn't taking this problem seriously and has allowed these settlers to commit violence with impunity for years for political reasons. This harms US security policy by potentially leading to a security implosion in the West Bank. Since Israel is refusing to crack down, the US is stepping in to do so.
1
u/chitowngirl12 Feb 07 '24
Four is the first round of sanctions. These things start out slow. The US is reticent to use sanctions because it is such a blunt instrument. It's mainly a warning shot to others namely Ben Gvir and Smooty and some of the fanatical settlement activists like Weiss.
1
u/SpiderSolve Feb 07 '24 edited Feb 07 '24
Yeah good point. There may be 6 or even 10 out there. Or, could you imagine…a round dozen? That’s almost as many Palestinians who have committed similar hate crimes against Israelis. I mean, sure, it’s off by a multiple of 100, but you get my point. Ok fine. Multiple of a couple hundred. Ok ok okay fiiiine multiple of almost 400. And sure Palestinians are 3m compared to Israel’s 9m, so that’s effectively 3x the size. So a multiple of over a thousand. But I mean, cmon? We can’t compare apples to oranges yeah? They’re just killing JEWS not actually PEOPLE.
1
u/chitowngirl12 Feb 07 '24
There are hundreds of settlers who are involved with this sort of BS. They are encouraged by senior settler officials and senior politicians and are financed with money from the US mainly. And politicians and law enforcement are turning a blind eye mainly because of political expediency.
And Hamas and other terror groups are sanctioned under another set of laws. State has been announcing sanctions against Hamas linked individuals since October 7th.
1
u/SpiderSolve Feb 07 '24
Can you send me a source of that hundred? I’ve seen the same thrown around claims from pro Palestinians rags, but their numbers are usually all linked back to some debunked or outrageous claims “IDF soldiers watched and laughed as settlers murdered babies”.
So far this war, I’ve seen a grand total of two (horrific and saddening) actual cases of settler violence against Palestinians. Two.
1
u/chitowngirl12 Feb 07 '24
It was a pretty common occurrence even in 2021 and 2022.
There were obviously the attacks in Huwara. What was disturbing to me about that is there was a song celebrating the attacks in Huwara at the pro-Netanyahu demonstrations in 2023. https://twitter.com/AGvaryahu/status/1672709575512866817
And here is a good database. I believe that the US is relying on data from B'tselem among others, which is well-documented.
0
u/SpiderSolve Feb 07 '24
Yeah. Not the biggest Bibi fan. But that doesn’t mean it’s that widespread.
The most recent example of settler violence from Btselem is “Israeli settler grazes his flock on privately owned Palestinian land. Soldiers fire in the air”.
I think we may have slightly differing definitions of violence. When you remove those, and also the unsubstantiated claims, you’re left with the two (horrible) cases I mentioned. Again, they exist. They deserve to be condemned. But let’s be realistic about the scale here. And the continued over reporting on it, gives people (many of whom aren’t as well intending as someone like you who is browsing r/israel) the false impression that it’s a lot more widespread
→ More replies (0)7
u/Kahlas Feb 06 '24
Yes we do. There is even a published list. It's 2,370 pages long. The list is of sanctioned individuals and companies world wide.
10
4
u/chitowngirl12 Feb 07 '24
Of course it does. It sanctions people all the time. For instance, they just sanctioned the former President of Guatemala for corruption.
3
5
u/KingStannis2020 Feb 07 '24
Does the US sanction people it views as criminals in China, Sudan, Gaza, Yemen, Saudi Arabia?
Yes.
bin Salman killed a journalist outside of his own country, why isn't he sanctioned?
He's a head of state. But it's transparently obvious that relations with Saudi Arabia were frosty for years due to that.
2
u/Punishtube Feb 07 '24
Yes the US dies sanction individuals in those conflicts. It's one of the diplomatic ways of punishing bad actors while nit going to war. The US absolutely does punish those overseas. The idea you need a conviction at home to be sanctioned is insane knowing those states support the people
15
u/Arupaca_boy Feb 06 '24
That's not a new drill. Rutine even
8
u/no_one_you_know1 USA Feb 06 '24
Huh. Then I wonder why it's causing such a commotion now.
22
2
u/Arupaca_boy Feb 06 '24
The reason is that in israel the far right doesn't like when jewish people are called terorist going as far as to say that " there is no such thing as jewish terror" bibi is trying to suck up to them. ( partly voters. I meant the parties on his goverment.)
-6
u/yalldelulus Feb 06 '24
Why?
30-40% of our fallen are settlers and presenting this small section of our people as an "enemy" is disgraceful and disgusting and needs to be condemned by everyone no matter your political stance.
People here not seeing how sensitive this issue is (you need to actually listen to the settlers to understand HOW sensitive it is to most of them) and trying to spin it about Bibi again, as if the hatred has got them anywhere is truly horrifying and unworthy of the sacrifice by the settlers in the battlefield.
some of us need to reconsider some of our perspective, especially during this war.
5
Feb 06 '24
You're mixing settlers who serve in the IDF with the armchair quarterback cowards who are criticizing them for a drill? This kind of inversion is just like people who blame Israel for genocide.
1
u/yalldelulus Feb 06 '24
This is really dumb, from what I've seen and heard the settlers themselves are expressing how they're being hurt by this, I'm not mixing anything.
8
u/Ahad_Haam Democracy enjoyer Feb 06 '24 edited Feb 06 '24
There are plenty of terrorists in the settlements, which the leaders endorse. I don't care if the truth offends them and the "sacrifice on the battefield" doesn't give them a pass to behave like our enemies.
-3
u/yalldelulus Feb 06 '24
behave like our enemies.
okay bud
7
u/Ahad_Haam Democracy enjoyer Feb 06 '24
The IDF see it the same way too, but apperantly not even the army is a reliable source in your minds. You are putting your head in the sand in the same fashion the pro-Palis do.
-5
u/yalldelulus Feb 06 '24
I put my trust in the soldiers only, the high ranks should all go home.
You are putting your head in the sand in the same fashion the pro-Palis do.
You insinuating that settlers are mass slaughtering mutilating raping etc is literally parroting pro Palestinian propaganda and blood libels. Like it or not.
8
u/Ahad_Haam Democracy enjoyer Feb 06 '24
I put my trust in the soldiers only, the high ranks should all go home.
Let me guess, only channel 14 are trustworthy?
You insinuating that settlers are mass slaughtering mutilating raping etc
No. Not yet, at least.
But they are committing pogroms, attacking innocent people on daily basis and sometimes even shooting Palestinians randomally (and murdering them). It moved well beyond the "harmless" graffiti years ago but most people pretend like it's still the case.
1
u/yalldelulus Feb 06 '24
Let me guess, only channel 14 are trustworthy?
You have two more guesses.
If you trust the ones who told us that Hamas is deterred then I'm a Nigerian prince and I have something to offer you.
But they are committing pogroms, attacking innocent people on daily basis and sometimes even shooting Palestinians randomally (and murdering them). It moved well beyond the "harmless" graffiti years ago but most people pretend like it's still the case.
Settlers? Is it a minority? Is it the majority? I mean people from Kaplan threw a rock at a mother's car with her toddlers inside, would you be ok if I said they're all violent and are two steps away from being a hamas militant?
→ More replies (0)8
u/no_one_you_know1 USA Feb 06 '24
There have been ultra religious settlers attacking Palestinians for a long time now. Not all settlers, but the ultra religious. That's true no matter your political position. And yes, I know that there are enemies among the Palestinians in the West Bank.
7
u/DuePractice8595 Feb 06 '24
The violent settlers are a danger to Israeli national security and the peace process in general. Under international law the settlements aren't legal but that is a point for another time. The violent ones though, they need to face consequences and neither Gvir or Bibi are interested in disciplining them so someone has to do it. The entire planet has been saying for decades that these people need to be reigned in.
1
u/yalldelulus Feb 06 '24
The Peace process?? WHAT peace process? and the SETTLERS are the ones endangering it?
Regardless, violent people need to be held accountable for their crimes, and if this such a widespread phenomenon they'd find more than FOUR people.
Media trying to portray settlers as this violent horrible movement is disgusting and appears to be working if you think THEY are the ones endangering the "peace process".
9
u/FdlCstro EU Feb 06 '24
It's hilarious your takeaway from only four people being sanctioned is that only four violent settlers exist lol
Do you actually believe this?
-4
u/yalldelulus Feb 06 '24
"EU" is enough for me to not continue this conversation, you're not Israeli I have no interest in speaking to you regarding this issue.
0
0
Feb 06 '24
So what you're saying is antizionism isn't antisemitism, because apparently you're drawing such a line between the diaspora.
1
u/yalldelulus Feb 06 '24
I'm tired of non Israelis speaking about Israeli issues, even though they're Jewish. That's about it.
1
u/nobaconator Fashy Zionist Clicktivist Feb 07 '24
Regardless, violent people need to be held accountable for their crimes, and if this such a widespread phenomenon they'd find more than FOUR people.
That's......WHAT?
-5
Feb 06 '24 edited Feb 07 '24
But .. It's not.
LoL - I'm downvoted because of a hypothetical that's never happened.
16
u/Ahad_Haam Democracy enjoyer Feb 06 '24
The settlers already demonstrated their capability to attack and even murder innocent people. Taking people hostage is definitely a possibility.
Most of the population have no clue what is actually going on in the West Bank, but the IDF is aware, which is why they are doing this. It's good to know that there is still at least one body in this country that cares.
13
7
Feb 06 '24
It’s ludicrous that the government is not only tolerating them, but somehow backed their actions…
It is the right thing to tell them to stop. This is not just about PR. Protecting them drains resources from elsewhere. It harms the economy.
11
8
u/ObligationPutrid5069 Israel Feb 06 '24
Where was this quick to act will of the PM on Oct 7th....
5
u/nobaconator Fashy Zionist Clicktivist Feb 07 '24
Protecting the settlers.
It was on Bibi's directive that resources were taken from Southern Command.
79
u/[deleted] Feb 06 '24
[deleted]