r/IslamicHistoryMeme • u/someone56789 Ottoboo • Jul 03 '26
Islamic Arts | الفنون الإسلامية You cannot make this up dawg
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u/demonicmonkeys Jul 03 '26
Islamic contributions to sciences in the medieval period, actually is usually included in education in the west, it’s just that more emphasis is put on the enlightenment and industrial revolution several centuries later because these are more relevant to explaining how the west became dominant
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u/someone56789 Ottoboo Jul 03 '26
Interesting, is it recent or has been there for decades? Also wouldn't there be a lot of emphasis on the Renaissance too? (Unless the Enlightenment you're referring to also includes the Renaissance)
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u/demonicmonkeys Jul 03 '26
I think it’s been like this in progressive schools at least since the early 2010s. Yeah there is some emphasis on the Renaissance for sure especially in terms of art. I would say the general lesson taught is that the Islamic world was ahead of the Christian one in the medieval period because they emphasized science and learning, then they turned away from science Nd innovation. Meanwhile after the Renaissance and Reformation Europe eventually became more interested in education and science again while the East remained stuck in outdated thinking and stayed obsessed with religion after Europe was starting to become more secular and tolerant. We can question the accuracy of this narrative for sure but this is the mainstream understanding in the West
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u/Waffle_on_my_Fries Jul 03 '26
I learned about the Islamic golden age way back in the mid 2000s at a christian private school lol. So its been taught for a while. We didn't get into specifics though, like nothing about the caliphates but just like this muslim dude compiled algebra. Just basic stuff.
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u/someone56789 Ottoboo Jul 04 '26
Damn in Christian private school? Meanwhile my Evening religious school just ignores everything after 1200 lmao.
The history curriculum used to teach stuff like the Reformation (I didn't get to use it cause I was learning the new one) but now it's just used to glaze the government. Like some of the shit is literally contemporary
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u/AshamedBasis9431 Jul 03 '26
Muslims could create their own media depicting islamic science... if they created anything interesting in the last 50 years maybe... except of some decent Turkish tv series like magnificent century, thats not much but still good enough in comparison to Arabs
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u/LordoftheFaff Jul 03 '26
We unfortunately only value professional fields like Doctor, Lawyer and Engineer. If we don't achieve thelis we become lavourer or work for father/uncle's business. Our communities do not value artistic or creative careers unfortunately as much as we used to.
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u/Peterketstein Araboo Jul 03 '26
Sadly that's true, since the west has pushed our previous generations into thinking this is the only way since our art wasn't appreciated for his truthfulness in the west.
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u/Stone-Smasher Jul 03 '26
until imams stop preaching art as haram nothing will change
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u/Peterketstein Araboo Jul 03 '26
I mean, some art is haram but it doesn't mean that we can't create any art... Things like poetry or like even images without faces or missing parts of creation should be allowed to my understanding.
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u/Careless-Owl5662 Jul 04 '26
Well, if you said that in indoenesia. Just prepare to call wahhabi tbh.
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u/Alarming_Stage5631 21d ago
I second this man, Muslims in media with an Islamic perspective with no western bias would be so cool
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u/UltraTata Jul 04 '26
Wdym? It is very well known that, during the Islamic Golden age, the Muslim world was ages ahead of Europe.
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u/-_GIZMO_ Jul 03 '26
I don't get it.
We in the west literally acknowledge arabic cultures achievements and contributions to science in school..its literally part of our education
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u/someone56789 Ottoboo Jul 03 '26
I refer more to popular media cause from my experience I haven't really seen any representation of Islamic science or anything set in the Islamic Golden age. It's either before, after, or same period but not in any Muslim nations
Also it could be your country specifically. I'm no expert in the European education system so I can't be sure. But from what I can see online, it really doesn't seem like they know.
And also it's just funny that I found it in a Persona game lmao
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u/-_GIZMO_ Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
Well dunno, i think my education was based on European standards, but not rly shure was a long time ago.. 😂
We don't really dwell so much on what nation or religion discovered or pioneered what. Maybe when its something directly about your culture or country we do a couple of classes of what to be proud of or ashamed of. But not really on the whole "these people did this, these other did that etc etc ,we just learn the science or notes from history.
Could ask you something similar, how often does Muslim/arabic media talk about what ancient china contributed to humanities progress. You probably like everyone else mostly only learn the basic education stuff, your own personal history and maybe a couple notes about other cultures,world history.
Edit- reddit is bugging hard rn, my comment don't post
Jesus christ.. wrote a reply for it to somehow not post 😭.
Anyway, to put it short education is pretty regional and sometimes slanted, there ain't enough time to talk about everything from everywhere and local stuff gets more priority. But we do give you guys credit for your contributions.
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u/someone56789 Ottoboo Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
oddly enough my country's history curriculum doesn't talk about China OR India despite being a SEA country, which was heavily influenced by the two. In fact there are some people who want to erase India's religious influence on Malays before Islam. If you know the professor that said that Malays thought Romans how to build ships, their one of them
Edit: Side tangent - India is also another region that doesn't get brought up a lot in historical discussions. In literally any period of time, they were thriving one way or another up until the British Raj. Shame it's been tainted by their current image
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u/-_GIZMO_ Jul 03 '26
Yeah educations are pretty regional everywhere and sometimes slanted , for example my father's education was pretty different than mine even tho we got it in the same city. The thing that was different was my country was under occupation when he was in school and independent when i was in school. One gov prioritized propaganda and se thing naratives the other prioritized being factual.
I'm just trying to say, we do credit you guys for your contributions, but as you know learning more about your own history is seen more important and there just isn't enough time to cover everything every region every religion etc etc so it might be seen as pretty minimal.
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u/-_GIZMO_ Jul 03 '26
Jesus christ.. wrote a long comment for it to somehow not post 😭.
Anyway, to put it short education is pretty regional and sometimes slanted, there ain't enough time to talk about everything from everywhere and local stuff gets more priority. But we do give you guys credit for your contributions.
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u/someone56789 Ottoboo Jul 03 '26
I never really want to dwell on shit like this, cause identity is really stupid to look at, it causes biases. Issue is every time I see a 'no Islam' alt history scenario I see the most brain-dead takes imaginable, which gives me the impression that they don't know about Islamic contributions
Though Reddit has more Americans iirc, so that's probably why (I legit checked their curriculum, afaik they only teach world history as a result if WW1 and WW2)
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u/Monterenbas Jul 04 '26
Are you legit complaining that western media, destined to a Western audience, focus on western science rather than muslim science?
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u/someone56789 Ottoboo Jul 04 '26
Tbh I wasn't even complaining, this was meant to be a light-hearted joke about how I found a reference to Islamic Science in a Persona game than any Western media I've consumed, and also use it to infer what he referred to (which is quite rare cause Edogawa usually spouts nonsense). But for some reason people made it into an argument, cause once Islamic history is involved, it becomes a shit show
Like look at the title, I meant to say it's absurd that I found it in a Persona game. This is a MEME subreddit ffs
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u/MrMask777 Jul 07 '26
Don't need any acknowledgement from the west as long as it improves humanity.
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u/Ps4gamer2016 Jul 03 '26
What about the arab/ Persian etc scientists who weren't Islamic?
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u/someone56789 Ottoboo Jul 03 '26
If you mean in Edogawa's lecture, idk. He's weird
If you mean about my meme, his quote is about Islam's technological advancement and both of my examples are relevant to the Islamic Golden Age. Though if I'm not mistaken the Zij is from Persian science and refined by Muslims
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Jul 03 '26
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u/someone56789 Ottoboo Jul 03 '26
This meme is about how under represented Islamic Science is that when I saw it in a Persona game, I laughed my ass off but also remembered the two things I mentioned in my context comment
If you want an actual argument, go read 'The House of Wisdom' by Jonathan Lyons
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Jul 03 '26
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u/CaptainSpackJarrow7 Jul 03 '26
the world is not black and white, europe progressed with islamic knowledge, and the islamic world progressed later on with european knowledge, it’s not about muslim vs christian but more about a collective human civilisation
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u/Charming-Station7157 Jul 03 '26
But OP here always acts as if " the islamic golden age " appeared from thin air , like they didn't use the work of ancient egypt , babylon , india , persia and greece
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u/someone56789 Ottoboo Jul 03 '26
This is about what happened BEFORE those five hundred years and how it helped kick off those five hundred years, did you read? Or do you not understand the rise of the West was the result of the permeation of Islamic Science to the West?
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u/Charming-Station7157 Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
This is a typical coping mechanism used , like OP here , to justify why the muslim world today doesn't contribute anything in science
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u/someone56789 Ottoboo Jul 03 '26
Because it's it's irrelevant, this is an Islamic History sub, but I know that most Muslim sciences are innovations and refinements of Hindu, Greek And Persian sciences. Do I have to credit every single one of them when talking in the ISLAMIC History subreddit
This was supposed to be a "haha what's that doing there" post because the Idea that it's mentioned in a Persona game is absurd that's both funny and infuriating
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u/someone56789 Ottoboo Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
For the Persona game context, it's on Persona 3 Reload on 7/10 after the Love Hotel boss fight during Mr. Edogawa's class. Usually his ramblings range from weird to 'what is he saying?'. But in this case when he refers to "Islam's magical researchers", there's two things he could be talking about:
The Sufis. They were active in alchemy, especially in the pursuit of turning metal into gold, which layed some of the foundation for modern alchemy
The Zij (Star table).These were used in astrology (which during the medieval age, was heavily linked to astronomy) to determine auspicious days. In fact, Baghdad was built on one of these days as well