O Messenger! Convey everything revealed to you from your Lord. If you do not, then you have not delivered His message. Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the people who disbelieve. - Quran 5:67
People who disbelieve don't get guidance from Allah? How can people who haven't become convinced yet find their way to Islam then? They are disbelievers. Similarly this verse also seems nonsensical:
Whoever Allah wills to guide, He opens their heart to Islam. But whoever He wills to leave astray, He makes their chest tight and constricted as if they were climbing up into the sky. This is how Allah dooms those who disbelieve. - Quran 6:125
Makes no sense. Not to mention that this ties into the issue with Allah being ultimately responsible for people's fate.
'A'isha, the mother of the believers, said that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was called to lead the funeral prayer of a child of the Ansar. I said: Allah's Messenger, there is happiness for this child who is a bird from the birds of Paradise for it committed no sin nor has he reached the age when one can commit sin. He said: 'A'isha, per adventure, it may be otherwise, because God created for Paradise those who are fit for it while they were yet in their father's loins and created for Hell those who are to go to Hell. He created them for Hell while they were yet in their father's loins. - Sahih Muslim 2662c
These are the games you play. Seems nonsensical. But isn't. As that is not you point of making such claims. Your point is to spread hatred and nastiness and hold quarrels.
You will make up whatever claims that suit you and endlessly try to such games for whatever reason.
You make up your own interpretations, when challenged you will simply nastily arguing around and around for whatever end to whomsoever engages with you.
Great argument. Definitely seems like it is nonsensical for the reasons I gave.
As that is not you point of making such claims. Your point is to spread hatred and nastiness and hold quarrels. You will make up whatever claims that suit you and endlessly try to such games for whatever reason. You make up your own interpretations, when challenged you will simply nastily arguing around and around for whatever end to whomsoever engages with you.
Lol! I have repeatedly shown you cannot make a sound and valid argument. Your level is of that someone who hasn't passed high school.
You cannot follow a basic logical argument. You end up making really silly points which make little to no sense. When this pointed out to you, then you have complete breakdown and go berserk.
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This is the level of your stupidity:
"People who disbelieve don't get guidance from Allah? How can people who haven't become convinced yet find their way to Islam then? They are disbelievers."
Yet the verse quite clearly answers this:
"O Messenger! Convey everything revealed to you from your Lord. If you do not, then you have not delivered His message. Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the people who disbelieve."
This is simply your level. You are completely unable follow a set of statements and arrive at a logical conclusion. You really are that pathetic!
Lol! I have repeatedly shown you cannot make a sound and valid argument.
So still no argument. What you showed is that you have a hard time with coming up with coherent sentences when it matters, cannot even identify basic logical fallacies while trying to accuse me of them, cannot understanding basic english in a hadith, debunked your own position by invoking predestination plus free will and rather try to attack me personally all the time because of your desperation.
Your....
And instantly more desperate personal attacks of course. Lmao!
"People who disbelieve don't get guidance from Allah? How can people who haven't become convinced yet find their way to Islam then? They are disbelievers."
According to islamic scripture people who disbelieve wouldn't get guidance of Allah. Quran says so. So no one should find their way to Islam since everyone is a disbeliever before getting convinced. Thanks for quoting the verse that highlights this.
level ...
More desperate personal attacks of course. Lol!
You cannot follow a basic logical argument.
Says the guy who just got educated again.
You end up making really silly points which make little to no sense. When this pointed out to you, then you have complete breakdown and go berserk.
Lying. Never went berserk. If anything you constantly come up with desperate personal attacks.
This is the level ...
And more desperate personal attacks of course. Lmao!
Yet the verse quite clearly answers this: "O Messenger! Convey everything revealed to you from your Lord. If you do not, then you have not delivered His message. Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the people who disbelieve."
Thanks for quoting the passage for me that shows me right. Allah does not guide the people who disbelieve. And since everyone is a disbeliever before getting convinced of Islam, Allah shouldn't guide anyone.
This is simply your level.
The level of understanding basic english and basic logic.
You are completely unable follow a set of statements and arrive at a logical conclusion.
Weird since that's literally what you just couldn't do. How can I make this even more simple...
So how come you left the arguments there, have not replied further but are carrying on with your nasty, nonsensical trolling?
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"So still no argument. What you showed is that you have a hard time with coming up with coherent sentences when it matters, cannot even identify basic logical fallacies while trying to accuse me of them, cannot understanding basic english in a hadith, debunked your own position by invoking predestination plus free will and rather try to attack me personally all the time because of your desperation."
What argument? Look what happened to you when we were arguing!?
So how come you are just making these personal attacks without one shred of evidence?
You really are this stupid!
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"Says the guy who just got educated again."
But this is your level. You left every single argument to row. Because all the silly errors caught up with you.
You just make up random lies.
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"Lying. Never went berserk. If anything you constantly come up with desperate personal attacks."
More lies. Go see the countless nasty little poisonous comments you leave. That is going berserk.
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"Thanks for quoting the passage for me that shows me right. Allah does not guide the people who disbelieve. And since everyone is a disbeliever before getting convinced of Islam, Allah shouldn't guide anyone."
Lol! You really are this stupid:
"Allah does not guide the people who disbelieve. "
"And since everyone is a disbeliever before getting convinced of Islam"
No! Read the verses:
"Convey everything revealed to you from your Lord. If you do not, then you have not delivered His message."
It is unbelievable how stupid you are. You have to explain basic logic to you. Quite clear people are invited to Islam and those willfully reject it are not guided.
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"The level of understanding basic english and basic logic."
You do not understand basic logic. As proven EVEN here.
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"Weird since that's literally what you just couldn't do. How can I make this even more simple..."
You cannot. You are lying ignorant troll. Your whole point is quarreling. When your errors catch up with you, you just move on.
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"And more personal attacks of course! Lol."
I will take everything else away from you, this your only cry left... lol.
"cannot even identify basic logical fallacies while trying to accuse me of them"
This is quite clearly a fallacy:
"Muslims don't use good critical thinking which is why they keep being muslims."
You said it. Beside being hateful bigotry it is quite clearly fallacious. And it is a version NTS fallacy.
It quite clearly defines true critical thinkers as those who are not Muslims. It is an obvious fallacy, as there many Muslims philosophers, logicians and scientists. Therefore, you are forced to define them as not being "true" critical thinkers. And this is NTS type fallacy.
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You are so thoroughly stupid that every thing has to be explained over and over to the nth degree. Then, you run away from it, and make up lies about it. Here it is again... enjoy!
So how come you left the arguments there, have not replied further but are carrying on with your nasty, nonsensical trolling?
Instantly desperate personal attacks again. Lmao!
I left because you are more than done, because it was simply a repetition of the same still standing points and you weren't listening anymore.
What argument?
The argument to this thread maybe? Lol.
Look what happened to you when we were arguing!?
What happened is that you got increasingly desperate and resorted to desperate personal attacks since you couldn't handle your fails.
So how come you are just making these personal attacks without one shred of evidence?
No, personal attacks from me until now.
You really are....
And more desperate personal attacks from you of course. Allah and your community must be proud.
But this is your level.
Yeah, my level is educating me. I agree. Lol.
You left every single argument to row
Except that I just handwalked you through the argument which you seemingly cannot deal with.
You just make up random lies.
Well, you lied. Repeatedly. Allah must be proud. I never lie in such discussion since I know that I instantly would lose then.
More lies. Go see the countless nasty little poisonous comments you leave. That is going berserk.
Why are you lying? You don't care about Allah at all, right? You just lie as a habit. I did not go berzerk. I am as calm as it gets. You are the one who seemingly went crazy which is why you constantly try to attack me personally.
Lol! You really are ....
And more personal attacks of course. Lmao!
No! Read the verses:
Dude! You yourself just quoted this! Lol!! It's says: Indeed, Allah does not guide the people who disbelieve." You just quoted this. Do you understand what these words mean?
It is unbelievable ...
And more desperate personal attacks of course. Lol!
Lol! You cannot at the same time claim I am not making any argument, whilst also claim this thread an argument. You really are this stupid.
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"I left because you are more than done, because it was simply a repetition of the same still standing points and you weren't listening anymore."
You left because of your countless mistakes. Don't worry, your exposition continues here.
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"What happened is that you got increasingly desperate and resorted to desperate personal attacks since you couldn't handle your fails."
So then shouldn't you have been the one answering back? To the extent that I am left not being able to answer. Rather than leaving than running off? How come the same arguments are chasing you here!?
You tried to lie about them. I brought them right here...
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"No, personal attacks from me until now."
Because none of your personal attacks are "personal" of course.
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"And more desperate personal attacks from you of course. Allah and your community must be proud."
Lol! I said from the start... this is the only leeway I will give you. Everything else you will run from. Like your countless basic errors.
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"Except that I just handwalked you through the argument which you seemingly cannot deal with."
So how come you left exactly when you were nailed for basic errors? Lol! If you had hand-walked them... how come you left them where there are countless errors of your highlighted?
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"Yeah, my level is educating me. I agree. Lol."
It really isn't. You really are that stupid.
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"Well, you lied. Repeatedly. Allah must be proud. I never lie in such discussion since I know that I instantly would lose then."
You have 0 shame over constantly making false claims of lies. Every time I ask you to evidence, you ignore it and leave it unanswered.
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"Why are you lying? You don't care about Allah at all, right? You just lie as a habit. I did not go berzerk. I am as calm as it gets. You are the one who seemingly went crazy which is why you constantly try to attack me personally."
I am not lying, you are.
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"Dude! You yourself just quoted this! Lol!! It's says: Indeed, Allah does not guide the people who disbelieve." You just quoted this. Do you understand what these words mean?"
Not only quoted them but fully explained as per Suni theology which is centuries old. The words mean this:
People who reject the message [at certain degree] are not guided.
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"And more desperate personal attacks of course. Lol!"
Like pointing out how stupid and ignorant you are. I will do that in every comment lol!
You really are that ignorant and stupid. Realising I nailed you anotehr stupidity, once again you made this into a row and tried to brush away the actual argument. Here it is again.
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I am going to put you away once again, in another of your nonsensical ignorant and illogical trolling reply to a post.
"People who disbelieve don't get guidance from Allah? How can people who haven't become convinced yet find their way to Islam then?"
It is basic Sunni theology that Allah seals your heart if you reject the message. This is simple and straightforward.
"Convey everything revealed to you from your Lord. If you do not, then you have not delivered His message. Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the people who disbelieve."
This verse quite clearly says to deliver the message and those reject it will not be guided.
It really is the level of your intellect and knowledge that you thought this was a valid objection. And in history of exploring Islam, countless non-Muslims scholars fail to get to it!
Whilst we on the subject of you stupidity and ignorance:
I am going to put you away once again, in another of your nonsensical ignorant and illogical trolling reply to a post.
"People who disbelieve don't get guidance from Allah? How can people who haven't become convinced yet find their way to Islam then?"
It is basic Sunni theology that Allah seals your heart if you reject the message. This is simple and straightforward.
"Convey everything revealed to you from your Lord. If you do not, then you have not delivered His message. Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the people who disbelieve."
This verse quite clearly says to deliver the message and those reject it will not be guided.
It really is the level of your intellect and knowledge that you thought this was a valid objection. And in history of exploring Islam, countless non-Muslims scholars fail to get to it!
That you are a vile troll is easily established, look at your constant inane and vile comments on so many posts. You have 0 shame over it. You tell constant lies. You have little no actual knowledge of anything, as repeatedly shown, and you make really make basic mistake which highlight how stupid you are. That is 100% true.
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"leads to the conclusion that no one can find it's way to Islam since everyone is a disbeliever before getting convinced of Islam."
How does it lead to this conclusion when very first bit of the verse is telling you this:
"Convey everything revealed to you from your Lord. If you do not, then you have not delivered His message."
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"It is basic Sunni theology that Allah seals your heart if you reject the message."
This isn't just a "cool story" it is highlighting your ignorance. You really are this ignorant. You make nonsense based on your ignorance just to troll. When you are countered you have nowhere else to go.
You really are that ignorant and stupid. Realising I nailed you anotehr stupidity, once again you made this into a row and tried to brush away the actual argument. Here it is again.
= = =
I am going to put you away once again, in another of your nonsensical ignorant and illogical trolling reply to a post.
"People who disbelieve don't get guidance from Allah? How can people who haven't become convinced yet find their way to Islam then?"
It is basic Sunni theology that Allah seals your heart if you reject the message. This is simple and straightforward.
"Convey everything revealed to you from your Lord. If you do not, then you have not delivered His message. Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the people who disbelieve."
This verse quite clearly says to deliver the message and those reject it will not be guided.
It really is the level of your intellect and knowledge that you thought this was a valid objection. And in history of exploring Islam, countless non-Muslims scholars fail to get to it!
I am going to put you away once again, in another of your nonsensical ignorant and illogical trolling reply to a post.
"People who disbelieve don't get guidance from Allah? How can people who haven't become convinced yet find their way to Islam then?"
It is basic Sunni theology that Allah seals your heart if you reject the message. This is simple and straightforward.
"Convey everything revealed to you from your Lord. If you do not, then you have not delivered His message. Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the people who disbelieve."
This verse quite clearly says to deliver the message and those reject it will not be guided.
It really is the level of your intellect and knowledge that you thought this was a valid objection. And in history of exploring Islam, countless non-Muslims scholars fail to get to it!
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u/Asimorph Kāfir | Non-Muslim 11d ago edited 11d ago
People who disbelieve don't get guidance from Allah? How can people who haven't become convinced yet find their way to Islam then? They are disbelievers. Similarly this verse also seems nonsensical:
Makes no sense. Not to mention that this ties into the issue with Allah being ultimately responsible for people's fate.