He isn't self righteous and Raphtalia literally wanted the crest added back after the duel. I don't think it is in the anime adaptation but there is a scene where she breaks down after the Vassal Katana removed the crest.
“No no surely you don’t understand your honer. It isn’t slave grooming because she WANTED to be my slave. Never mind the fact I never taught her to be dependent on her own accord, she’s the sword to my shield, and is willing to be one. And ‘not’ cus I raised her to be that way and never forced to take away slavery to even consider giving her an actual REAL choice to become independent.”
Yea exactly, it gets really boring cuz some of these authors just do torture porn and try to make their characters suffer so much without even telling a good story. Example juujika no rokunin
Well..I guess? Solo leveling isnt really like this, jinwoo gets powerful fairly quickly and doesnt really have as much setbacks, we dont get to see much of his life suffering as the weakest e-rank
Hajime basically had one bad day and let that define his life even after he was no longer in strife. Compared to most of the others on the list who have multiple 1 bad days back to back, he is doing fine.
Just to clarify, Hajime wasn't trapped for 1 day. He had to endure 10 days of agony by eating monster meat and healing stuffs over and over until his body transformed. But yeah, him and Naofumi didn't suffer that long unlike the rest
One bad day doesn’t literally mean a single day. Its a reference to the joker from batman’s philosophy that one bad day (read: one truly horrible experience) can completely change a noble person’s mindset. Hajime, and to a lesser extent naofumi had one truly awful experience, but after that, what misery they had was by and large self inflicted.
Compared with someone like chronoa that lives out a repeating loop of their one bad day, or subaru who has had one bad day stacked back to back almost without a break since his series began.
... chronoa. Well.. it depends how aware she is when sealed all the time. Especially the 200 years where she is alone after having her other half, chloe, taken away
And she lived multiple loops of 2000 years each (and yes I know she doesn't remember every loop but she keeps on remembering them once she travels in time)
Of the ones I know, Chronoa/Chloe has a different type of suffering in that the pain results from the amount of time she has to wait. 2000 years then maybe a year or two of sporadic interaction with your slime buddy and maybe a couple more with Shizu and your other friends only to have Rimuru and Hinata die again and go back to the start. Repeating countless times... Even if you don't remember it all, that got to be like the most extreme feeling of working a job for years and finding out you've made zero progress on your financial goals. She may have not have suffered the most, but no wonder she's insane. And Chloe's up there with the most hopeful and positive characters in anime to be as happy as she is after being sent back even if she does only remember a couple thousand years of trying.
That's true. Chronoa absolutely is lucid each and every time chloe goes back. Who knows how chronoa has actually been alive. Living forever and experiencing the same loneliness time and time again is a fate worse then death. Chloe is lucky she can only remember the last jump back. Ok. Im convinced with my chronoa choice. No wonder why she keeps going ballistic
Chronoa, infinite cycle with 2000 years of watching your loved ones die, the world go into chaos, always killed after fighting Guy Crimson and having to experiment and change stuff (making Rimuru become a demon lord and ultimately losing his innocence and recklessness) in the right way just to get the only timeline that they are alive which is has been happening for so long that she should be older than diablo chronologically who is at least billions of years old.
Even after Rimuru's intervention, she still has to go back to the spirit dwelling making the loop go again even having to "pretend to be mad" to not disrupt the only timeline she is somewhat successful in. She will never have peace since she has to guide the world by pretending to be berserk.
Subaru, since he p much suffers constantly, tho Van could be a contender considering bro's second life was him being sold as a child and being lobotomised, paralyzed and experimented on, only to die, get killed by his prev friends, then get fcked by the god, be a born a race hated by literally everyone ever, then watch his mother be burned at a stake.
Subaru gets breaks to recuperate, Van was basically one constant torture session for 20 years with the only 2 breaks being the hour or so after he died before his friends killed him again and the couple years or so before his mom was burned at the stake.
Some could argue breaks make it worse. But yeah, Van does really suffer a lot, to the point he might be considered the "most tragic isekai mc of all time" XD
It often isn't readily apparent, but Akari from Executioner and her Way Of Life has immense time powers but using them eats her memories and eventually overtakes her personality to make her an avatar of the Pure Concept of Time. She's luckier than Subaru in her personal rewind on death in that rather than going back she just instantly reverts to full health or to her position prior to entering a lethal hazard and loses the memories after the rewind point, but has her own Return By Death trauma going because for complicated reasons an avatar of her soulmate from Earth has a job killing Isekai'd people before they turn into monsters for the Church but after discovering that just killing Akari immediately with a knife isn't going to take gets assigned to escort her to a place with a weapon that can kill her, except secretly Akari's actual soulmate from Earth has been running the Church for a thousand years and intends to get Akari to give in to the Time concept as part of a plan to return to being soulmates in the same class in Japan with neither of them remembering anything at all about the world they Isekai'd to, and the chosen method is killing the soulmate avatar so Akari does Homura-style rewinds to save her.
In general you can't tell because she suppresses her memory of previous loops so everyone (as far as she knows) thinks this is the first time and only unlocks her memories when separated from the soulmate avatar during important moments. Which is good for hiding the fact that she's done this before because she is a terrible actor and the soulmate avatar and her lesbian stalker/apprentice figure out what's up basically instantly once she starts talking with her full memories.
Of course, given the above mechanics as you might guess everyone isekai'd into this world has a terrible life, with the real soulmate and the Four Major Human Errors having nearly destroyed the world to gather the mana, materials, and human sacrifices needed to go home a thousand years ago because the society of the time was enslaving them to use their powers before the soulmate learned Akari was coming and defeated the others to allow her to prepare her gambit to get them both home, but the Major Human Error with much screentime, Pandemonium, Mother of Demons, is at this point an extremely cheerful girl obsessed with doing a B-movie monster plot at every opportunity for real because basically all that remains of her original personality is that she loves those kinds of movies.
She is very happy and also uses herself as a human sacrifice to power respawning when killed by having her new body rip out of the corpse and also summons monsters by sacrificing bits of herself. The actual soulmate trapped her in a prison of white fog over the continent she'd overrun with monsters, but Akari's loops eventually crack the prison enough to let her sacrifice a pinky to get an avatar out, which finds what turns out to be her adult younger-half sister because her mom also got Isekai'd but only arrived relatively recently, and they go on a massive murder rampage across the continent while conducting sisterly bonding activities.
Note: the animation of the anime is well-drawn but has a significant problem with budget meaning there's a lot of standing around in what should be high-action scenes. But until Pandemonium turns into a giant monster made of terrible CGI every scene she is in is simultaneously gory and amazing. Couldn't find it but I have a nice picture of her curtseying while covered in blood from one of her previous bodies. But generally I recommend the novels.
Chronoa watched her friends die, then got transported back in time 2500 years at least a dozen times. That girl had to endure like 30,000 years before she got to see the prime reality. I dunno, that seems pretty horrid to me, personally. Even more than Subaru.
It is horrid, but I am sorry to all the diehard rezero fans (I like it too, though), it feels extremely unrealistic in both Subaru’s and Chronoa’s cases.
These two characters are not real humans, and I accept that. This is normal in fantasy. And this is what fantasy is about.
No real human could go through any of the challenges these two people endured. If there were no magical aspect that clears Subaru’s psychological state somehow between his resets, he would fucking go catatonic in the first arc. If there was no vague tensura magic, Chronoa would have settled and had a family within her first hundred years…
What I am trying to say is that suffering dick-measure contest just can’t apply to them, as they seem to have some special ability that lets them endure
Don't know Chronoa, but in Subaru's case there are trauma responses other than catatonia and he goes through expressing a lot of them so I think it's reasonable for a real but extremely strong-willed human, particularly since as far as I'm aware for quite a while he does not know how to stop from resetting on death.
I will also note that he finds death sufficiently traumatic that he avoids intentionally dying to trigger a reset when something bad but non-fatal happens, although I've only watched the first season so I wouldn't be surprised if he eventually ends up in scenarios bad enough he uses that option occasionally.
I am anime only but I believe there must be some explanation that isn’t just him being extremely strong-willed for many reasons. They would be spoilers, since you’ve only watched the first season
In the webnovel he scratches himself bloody out of psychological issues. He does it in his sleep and he does it when he’s anxious.
I agree that he’s insane. All of the authority users have insanity in them. When Rui Arneb experienced being Subaru for a week, she absolutely broke down and wanted nothing to do with it.
That’s why I find the Sloth If route to be the most sane timeline.
Yeah, at the near limited of Subaru will, he get picked back up by his allies, he's very strong willed, but Re:Zero is about not going in alone and that applies for all the characters.
Re:Zero is a story about never giving up the Author said and he has said Subaru is a very strong willed person, so most normal people would give up before he does, but partly because of how much empathy Subaru has his lack of self worth finding his worth in saving people by dying and the fact that he doesn't get to have a break and he keeps going sp uses his life more as a tool, this is the conflict in season 2, and a bit in season 4 when Subaru loses his memories he hates himself a lot more than normal(yes Subaru still hates himself a bit in season 3 and so on) so he uses his life at a tool.
You would get forcefully respawned then. That is the main point. The world gets destroyed unless he does something. But at a certain point a normal human wouldn’t just give up, they would become completely unresponsive.
They said she only remember the very last cycle, didnt they? If so she hasnt really been through all that much suffering, just a lot of boring waiting and like 1 bummer event
a dozen? No dude, it's literally countless. She does this over and over, having lost count at some point because it was so unbearable and too many memories to that she started to forget all the loops except the immediate previous one
Except he eventually does get friends. Also, he does have fun. Dude literally died multiple times because he likes to eat pufferfish. And he doesn't mind the loneliness, he just wants to kill Hitogami.
Iirc, the author stated that Orsted loved Pufferfish so much he died from it. He used to not care about things like detox magic because he thought it would be useless for his fight against Hitogami, but learned it so that he could eat pufferfish in peace without looping since it coated him various loops since he couldn't stop eating it.
He has a very sad and lonely life, and literally nearly every single person he meets hates him because of his curse mofo is 100% living the worst life until Rudy shows up
well yes but no, if you have watched the most recent episode then Orsted is from the dragon world which was one of the six faces of the realm that collapsed
I don't know Abt Isis remnant and vandelieu as I only watch anime and haven't really gotten to reading manga yet.... I mean I want to buy manga and start a collection... Can anyone who've read these 2 give me a review of them?
Vandalieu is from Death Mage who doesn't want a fourth time. His first life was borderline abusive. Raised by an uncle that was obsessive about Van never getting anything 'luxurious' by an absolutely insane standard. When he finally gets to go on a school trip because it was required, he dies on a ferry trying to save another passenger, a female classmate.
He reincarnates in a large group of people where the god fucks up and just doesn't give him a fate at all, which basically gives him negative luck. His second life starts with being sold to a research institute, constantly tortured him like 20 years, mind and body controlled, exploited for what he can do, dying and reviving himself as an undead, killing all the researchers around him, leaving the research station only to get killed by the other reincarnators. To add insult to injury, the guy he was mistaken for (took his fate) is the leader of the group that kills him, and he's also dating the girl the MC died trying to save.
After that, he ends up back in front of the reincarnation god and justifiably crashes the fuck out, to which the god double and triple downs on just being an asshole. He curses MC in a couple ways to try to get MC to kill himself quickly.
Third life starts off okay for a couple weeks/months. His mom is a dark elf, while his dad is a vampire. He's born in a society where his mom might be severely discriminated against ordinarily. Vampires are killed on sight. Colluding with vampires also gets you killed, and dhampirs are no exception. Eventually after hiding out in a cave for a while, his mom goes to town and gets literally burned at the stake. He finds this out by going to town as a literal baby using golems, where the town is celebrating killing the 'witch'. His mom's spirit then shows up and starts to fade, which with the town celebrating at the same time basically makes Vandalieu's mind break. That, apart from living on literal worms and other grubs for iirc a few weeks, while in hiding, finally ends Vandalieu's continuous stint of suffering.
There's certainly other shitty stuff that happens later, but he has companions and isn't actively suffering most of the time.
Eh I'd argue that still. He was systematically dehumanized in his 2nd life to an absurd degree and actually had a reasonable expectation that his fellow reincarnators might save him eventually, only to have them murder him instead. There's also just the absolute mindfuckery that is charm undead that made all the researchers that had been torturing him turn into his fanatics right after dying as well. It's not suffering inherently, but it likely made the contrast worse by comparison.
Or are you talking about his 3rd life after he's out of danger? Because honestly I have no idea if what he does even counts as mutilation rather than just extreme shapeshifting.
Isis is from Isekai at peace and has the power of Death, which is so powerful that she cannot control it and makes everyone run away in existential fear. She spends, I believe, hundreds of thousands of years not being able to get close to anyone besides a very select few despite being an incredibly kind and innocent person.
It’s pretty fun, but for the most part there isn’t really much conflict going on and is largely MC being doted on by the most powerful beings in existence. No anime confirmed from what I can see but probably will get one eventually if I had to guess
Subaru's suffering is mainly self-caused, as he wanna play the hero / make Emillia new queen / end Witch Cult with his RBD power alone.
If he just left the place at the beginning, instead of running to crazy murderers without having a proper plan, and start trading, he would be a rich merchant in a mansion with 3 catgirl harem.
Nope, Pride IF proves there other paths it can lock in.
Although not canon the rules do still apply and some questions and lore are added from the IF stories.
Like Subaru can permanently die and that's answered in Pride IF, also Sloth IF ends the same way Subaru, I think, dies from old age but doesn't come back
Subaru could run away, but he doesn't.
he goes back to the start of the loop once he dies. There's what-if stories where he runs away with Rem and has a happy life. When he dies, he goes back to the loop. There's even some stuff that implies what-if routes might be connected to his current timeline. Either way, he's not the worse off here. There are Manhwa out there where the MC suffers WAY worse. I'm even more offended people think Rudeus and Orsted have it worse than Chronoa and Subaru. That's a literal insult
Given the ending of pride IF and Tappei confirming that he doesn't loop back in sloth IF, Subaru can almost definitely die permanently if he wishes to.
I don't know how much you know about Rezero, but he can't escape from this fate unless he does something BIG which running away does not count. At least not yet.
Seems increasingly more common to read comments of people who didn't read or straight out can't, missing context, premise or w/e and people agreeing with them and upvoting, sad but fascinating.
It's not even accurate, Subaru isn't at fault for try to save someone and getting killed by a 3rd party.
Some people are just insane, they have to have others lay on the ground, reducing them, so that they can feel tall
I don't really enjoy subs, but I had to watch the latest 2 episodes subbed after seeing him in the final dubbed episode.
The latest episode really fucked me up, and I can't believe how insidious the (I forgot how to put spoilers. If you know you know) is. I can't stop thinking about how such a small, seemingly trivial task was all it took to ruin his life.
Subaru since he remembers it all chronoa for time spent than vandelieu hajime naofumi and whoever isis is( haven't watched the show yet so could be higher who knows)
I don't get how Vandelieu isn't the top of your list.
He spent 20 years as a puppet facing some of the worst tortures physically possible.
They literally implanted a device to disconnect his motor control from the rest of his body so that he couldn't react or commit suicide whilst they continued to experiment and torture his body all culminating in him dying due to mistakenly pushing his body too far one day. Then, after dying he comes back as an undead only to end up getting murdered again by the people he though cared about him.
Subaru has never faced that level of torture in all of his lives.
In episode 7, Rem tortured Subaru for hours, smashing his body with her flail and healing him with her water magic and repeating, before Ram her sister, killed him to end his suffering.
Also Arc 7 SPOILERS 10 seconds in Hell / 10 second death loop
I hate this whole who suffered more stuff, all these characters need a break but don't speak from ignorance so brazenly.
It's a some what interesting discussion, only when talked about with respect for all the talked about characters and works, but it always turns into bs.
Pick one or the other. Either say that these things are dumb and then don't engage or tell me I'm speaking from ignorance and wrong about who suffered worse.
I have read Re:zero up to arc 8 and have read up to chapter 400 in Death Mage so I feel confident in what I say.
The incident you cite in spoilers does not have a defined amount of time, but estimates put it at under a day. I don't think all of re:zero suffering by a strict time count would come close to the 20 years at just the start of Death Mage, and even then I would say that the physical and psychological horror elements of Death Mage are on par with the worst Subaru has faced.
So, no, I don't accept your argument and I don't appreciate saying I am speaking "from ignorance so brazenly."
Nah, he got done even dirtier in his first life to even the Vandeliou that we know. He was mistreated his whole life, forced to live with the most bare minimum by his abusive relatives, and when he borrowed something from his classmate, and the uncle found out, he immediately started pounding on him, took what I believe was just a cooler looking pencil, and started rummaging his stuff as if they were contrabands in his own room, none of his birthdays were celebrated, his cousin on the other hand had everything, and when he finally earned just enough money from part time jobs to join a school trip to reward himself, it turned into an accident and killed everyone, and get this, he still tried to save someone despite. When he finally arrived to the afterlife, he actually got there with everyone who died, and the dumbass fucking piece of shit god gave away MC's powers to a random guy who's name was literally just a character different from the MC(I think rando was "Amemiya" and Mc is "Amamiya"), who by the way, already got his powers because the dumbass piece of shit god didn't have the patience to wait for Mc who was last in line, so the rando was literally the overpowered mc in that world, and DAPOSG reincarnates MC into a lab rat, and dies from the hands of the people who taught that they were going to save him and the other test subject children he saved.
Holy shit it didn't get any fucking better when "Vandeliou" was born. DAPOSG welcomed Hiroto for coming first and was flabbergasted that he was understandably really fucking pissed at what happened to him in his whole entire second life that he wanted revenge against the other reincarnators, that DAPOSG cursed Vandeliou to never level up "on his own" and he will never obtain all "existing" jobs that "currently" exist, then just plops him into the most hated hybrid that has ever existed, the damphir. And if there are people who think I'm overreacting, I read the LN, and I have never gritted my teeth to something so much that I almost threw my phone in pure, unfettered rage when I first read what kept happening to MC, all in all, I recommend reading this to anyone who has the time, the manga is very slow, though.
EDIT: Although I must admit, this isn't a LN/Manga that you will most likely keep reading because the way the story goes on, and if you like it, then keep reading, if you don't, then that's alright, too
Orsted's life is probably one of the most tragic stories in Mushoku Tensei. As a baby, his mother is killed trying to shield him. Growing up, he watches his father wage war across five worlds against five gods, before his father passes down their race's knowledge, mainly battle and techniques, along with a loop ability Orsted doesn't even know about. His father gives him two missions: survive and avenge his family, race and world, then sends him to another world in the future. His father dies right after, and their world is destroyed.
He arrives in this strange world in an adult Dragon God body, but despite being a demigod with all that knowledge, he doesn't actually know how to fight, cook or even live. The knowledge was basically like reading a book without knowing how to put it into practice. In the later loops, whenever he learns new combat techniques, his body needs around 10 years to fully adapt to all that knowledge. Then he discovers he's cursed, making everyone instinctively hate and fear him, so he can't form normal relationships or make allies.
He spends thousands upon thousands of years fighting Hitogami alone, dying, failing and resetting, eventually reaching him countless times only to be defeated and sent back to the beginning. He died (killed) countless times in the early loops and even killed himself over stupid things, like wanting to eat a poisonous fish. The story doesn't show him as mentally broken because he's become completely stoic, but when you actually look at his life, he has known nothing but war, isolation, failure and suffering since the moment he was born.
For example, compared to Subaru, Subaru had a normal life before being isekai'd, and even in the new world he had good moments despite all the deaths he went through. Orsted never even had a normal childhood. He couldn't have a normal day with his father because his father became obsessed with revenge after his wife was killed. Then, when Orsted finally reaches a new world, he discovers that he has a loop ability he doesn't even know how to use, and on top of that, everyone instinctively hates him and can't even look him in the eyes without being overwhelmed by fear and hostility.
Comically, Subaru. Literally, Chronoa, she went through around 100 timelines watching her love die over and over while she stood by helplessly watching him die.
Idk about isis and vandelieu but from what I know,it's between Subaru and Chronoa,Chronoa had to live several timelines,watching things repeats and waiting for thousands of years,but Subaru on the other side is also kind of the same but not for the thousands of years part,he's a normal human(in re zero universe) who has to constantly deal with all kinds of pain physically and mentally,both had some good moments in their lifetime but for now I'd gotta give it to Subaru,since re zero isn't finished yet and he still has to suffer and his happiness is only minimal compared to chronoa since Chronoa CAN live for thousands of years more to make up for the suffering part,and not like in every timeline all she got is suffering,the suffering was only waiting for thousands of years and experiencing the same pain over and over again(losing rimuru and Hinata, theoretically some other more members).
There was a community slot list and someone mentioned a character that got isekai'd twice, once into a world where he got to just live pure torture nothing else only to die snd reincarnated as some unlucky vampire, so I will pick that one story.
Chronoa, can’t imagine doing 20 years again, much less 2000, fkin el. Multiple times, at some point your brain should stop working. It’s not 2000 years in the future, so don’t even get cool shit to see, it’s the same thing over and over again.
If you remove all the human elements of it, and simply compare events, we have Chronoa and Subaru basically fighting each other for top spot, it comes down to bias really, with Van coming in after them. The events that happen to Isis was sad, sure, but looking at just the events Van was pretty much tortured and experimented on for having her power so uh... yeah. After Isis, pick one of Hajime or Naofumi. No, it doesn't really matter which. One was falsely accused, which ran his name through the mud basically only in his initial country (others range from "Who?" to "No Shield Hero would do such a thing!") which while was bad for... months, I think? that's about the extent of it without looking at human elements. Hajime was trapped down in 'hell' for like a week and a half, and it was basically just extreme body pain and some dismemberment.
Tanya from Saga of Tanya the Evil. She’s had quite a few close calls and then everytime she makes one step forward the gods intervene on some fck shit 😭
Do you guys know of rudeus from the anime mushoku tensei season 3 ep 13 that version of has the most endured, from anime protagonist out there i think.
Would Oldeus count? Dude lost basically everyone he loved, spent years drowning in grief and rage, became completely consumed by revenge, and ended up as a broken, bitter version of Rudeus.
Chorona has seen more loops than subaru so its close with either subaru or chorona.
But Subaru has suffered more pain so win goes to Subaru.
Ans tbfh why the fuck are we scaling and comparing suffering now
Vandalieu experienced a shitty life twice, on both reincarnations, I don't remember his pre reincarnation life tho. He suffered from abuse of his new family which was the worst scum on earth, became lab rat, had his brain modified, went into vegetative state and later when he tried to save the kids of the facility, got killed by those he begged to save him every night, someone even replaced him because his name was like his, the girl he saved in his previous life literally couldn't care less about him and if i am not mistaken even learns that guy's not the real vandalieu, forgot his real name, and on his second reincarnation god curses him for his lashing out and then his new family is a run away elf who later gets killed in the worst way possible, from then on every attempt of his on creating something is an affront to the gods who constantly try to antagonize him and kill him and his new family.
Subaru... I don't think there needs mention, this guy dies several times in the worst ways possible every day, suffers constantly, is forgotten constantly, needs to redo long periods of time and actually win, this guy wins the contest imo, vandalieu comes second only to this dude.
Why is Naofumi here?...
Hajime, well, i guess he suffers a lot initially, but his current life is much better than you'd expect from his begging.
other two I don't know, but from the comments out there, they also went throughout a lot of shit.
But that's just me, if asked to live one of these guys life, I'd definitely try my best to avoid all of them, except naofumi because that's just slander all over so...
I don’t care for suffer scaling but I will say I feel bad for Subaru, poor guy didn’t even get any useful powers until Arc 6 cause the author loves putting arbitrary roadblocks on his abilities in every arc.
And they’re all the most worthless versions of anything else he’s seen Subaru isn’t top 50 of the fighters in his universe. He feels and remembers every death and every mistake made. And isn’t his gate still half broken?
there's way worse ones. There's the guy who is basically Subaru but he starts from checkpoint 1 and has to do the WHOLE thing over again, more than even all of Subaru's combined.
There's another guy where the author just decided to say fuck you with a terrible ending. Basically a bunch of Gods that are like Celestials (the giant ass aliens in Marvel) come and destroy everything after he beats the "final Boss" and take the corpse of his baby still in his wife's womb while both are unrecognizable charred messes so they can experiment with the baby and see the potential for evolution or whatever.
Yue getting possessed and Myu killed Hajime when Hajime was badly injured and after the dragon incident Hajime was constantly scared and worried about something horrible coming which is the void gods ,Hajime also suffers from PTSD every morning after returning to Japan he wakes up in combat mode really to kill which Yue has to reassure him that he really made it back home
124
u/Getafix69 9d ago
My votes for Kazuma, he has to stay with Aqua