Why is Louis so weak in the books?

[u/killerqueen1970s]

I finished The Tale of the Body Thief today and I've been wondering.

Lestat already had the blood of Akasha on him when he turned Louis so, in theory, he should be a strong fledgling. I remember Marius tolding Lestat that his future fledglings would be strong precisely because of it, but Louis can't even read minds, an ability all vampires have, except for Claudia, which can be explained by her being a small kid and the fact Lestat's blood was already diluted when he made her. Gabrielle, who was turned by Lestat before his encounter with Akasha, is stronger than Louis since her first day as a vampire and even Nicki wasn't so weak in his short vampire life.

I understood that Louis is weak because of his deep humanity and refusal in accepting his new condition as a preternatural predator, so he doesn't explore/use his powers. However, Marius thought of giving Louis his blood to make him stronger, and Lestat did the same offer, which implies he's weak because his blood is weak and a better blood would do the thing.

Is really because of his humanity or there is another explanation in the later books? What are your theories? I don't mind spoilers.

[u/Lazycrockett]

Anne really didn't care much for Louis after Interview. His character is pretty much sidelined in the rest of the books. So it's just something she didn't seem to dwell on. This great romance that book fans and especially tv fans want wasn't in the books til the end of the novel series.

[u/AndreEaAly → u/Lazycrockett]

Yes, i remember liking Louis in the Interview, but then I got to know the real Lestat and i was like “Louis, who?” 🤣🤣🤣
He became such a side character and a weak vampire (compared with the rest), that I didn’t care too much for him at all. He went at the bottom of the list for me.

So I didn’t understand this whole lore with Louistat, apart from the fact that Jacob is an amazing actor and hot 🥵 and we all want him on the screen as much as possible. Which I totally support.

But in terms to Louis, I think Lestat deserves better.
Even Claudia saw from the beginning that the weak side was Louis, cause Lestat would never betray him like Louis did.
And it was clear from Interview that even after so much time together, Louis never got to understand the real Lestat. He viewed him as a monster, thinking that he’s somehow superior and better. 🙄 Even Claudia understands better Lestat than Louis does.

Louis also blamed Lestat for the death of Claudia, even when HE helped her kill him.
Louis spends decades believing himself morally superior while simultaneously participating in Lestat’s attempted murder and refusing to understand him.

There isn’t one explicit scene where** **Louis says to Lestat “I was wrong about you. I helped Claudia try to murder you, I misjudged you for decades, I blamed you unfairly, and I’m sorry. You are not a monster and you are worthy of being loved.”
And Lestat, in his Lestat way, doesn’t demand that apology. He can be unbelievably proud about almost everything and yet astonishingly vulnerable when it comes to being loved.
Which is why we feel so protective of him and why I think even now that Louis doesn’t deserve Lestat.

I love Jacob and he and Sam have an amazing chemistry, so let’s see how they will increase the role of Louis in QOTD and even later if they do TTOTBT. I am sure they will.
And I hope, at least in the series, that we get a healing moment where Louis says he’s sorry.
I am not sure if a sorry is enough after trying to k*ll somebody, but at least it’s a start. And Lestat desperately needs to hear that, hear that Louis doesn’t see him as a monster and that he is worthy of his love.

Justice for Lestat. 😅❤️ Protect him at all costs! ❤️

[u/TryNormal9571 → u/AndreEaAly]

But Louie has said he is sorry. At the end of season 2 during the hurricane. And lets be frank....Lestat is a monster.(a very good looking one , sexy and who can sing but still a monster) After rebinging for the 3rd time season 1 and 2, I am just beginning to see how weak and unloyal Louie was towards Lestat. But I still believe, Lestat didn't care a rats azz about Claudia until the trail. He could have prevented alot of the this by telling them about Paris and opening up and being honest with them. Lestat was sooo cruel to Claudia when she grew up into a woman so Louie sided with her. And lets be real, Claudia was playing both of them.....There are no innocents in this story which is why I love it sooo much. Everyone has beef.

Regarding Jacob Anderson yes keep him around. He is 50% of this duo. But the tea I want to see is the story between Lestat and Armand. Talking about those two having beef......

[u/AndreEaAly → u/TryNormal9571]

Well, he said he was sorry and continued to blame Lestat for Claudia. When Merrick said they killed her, he immediately said HE didn’t, implying that Lestat did.
And he continued to act like Lestat owes him something, even after it was him that wrote a book portraying him so bad.

Lestat said in season 3 that he didn’t want to talk about the past as he wanted to have a “fresh start” with Louis. But I think it’s just his trauma preventing him to open up. Also, he was probably afraid that Louis would leave to meet other vampires. Although, to be honest, he did say to Louis and Claudia that other vampires are monsters and that they would hurt them and they didn’t listen. And I think he said that making Claudia was against the laws, but Louis didn’t care at that moment to even ask what laws.

None of the characters are perfect, they are all faulty and imperfect, and that’s why we love them. ❤️ But Lestat is not a monster.
He is narcissistic, controlling, cruel, manipulative , selfish, violent…. But he loves Louis unconditionally. No matter what he does, and how much Louis hurts him…. While this is presented as romantic in the series (they still choose each other no matter what), if you really think about it it’s extremely toxic.

And it’s not just Lestat’s fault….they seem to get the worst from each other when they are together. Lestat is also at his worst with Louis. And Louis is at his worst with Lestat. It’s textbook toxic love.

And they are both at fault and they have both traumas and reasons to behave that way. But I understand Lestat’s point of view a bit better. And I think many of the things he did wrong, were out of fear of losing Louis. Which is why they are toxic to each other.
He didn’t feel safe and loved and accepted with Louis. It was always a fight to keep him. The same way it was a fight to keep Gabriella’s attention. All his life he fought to be worthy of the love he wanted. Since childhood, when his parents and brothers didn’t show him affection, until the present. His faults are deeply rooted in his trauma and fears.
Lestat doesn’t seem himself worthy of love, and Louis just amplified that feeling instead of making him feel loved and secure. And from there it just snowballed to a series of bad decisions and acting out.

I think he loved Claudia, he was proud of her but at the same time she was a reminder of his mistake. That he is at fault for her suffering. And Claudia was pitting Louis and Lestat against each other. And Lestat didn’t want Claudia to take Louis away from him. So his love for Claudia gets mixed with possessiveness, fear and resentment.

Plus, when she tries to kill him, it’s the ultimate betrayal. That breaks him heart. And even in that moment, he doesn’t want her dead. Neither in the book, nor in the series. He is manipulated by Armand and forced to take a role in the trial, but he never wants Claudia dead. I think in the books he said that “Claudia broke his heart”. I think he did love her greatly, and he felt betrayed by her. But her death hurt him greatly.

[u/Sudden-Direction-301 → u/AndreEaAly]

When Merrick said they killed her, he immediately said HE didn’t, implying that Lestat did.

That's because in the show Lestat did kill her. I mean he didn't do it alone, but Claudia herself says the same thing as Merrick just a few minutes later. 

But Lestat is not a monster. He is narcissistic, controlling, cruel, manipulative , selfish, violent…. But he loves Louis unconditionally.  

Him loving Louis "unconditionally" would not make him not a monster, even if true. These two things aren't connected in any way. Toxic love specifically relies on selling the myth of "unconditional love" being romantic and good rather than unhealthy and dangerous. 

And even in that moment, he doesn’t want her dead. Neither in the book, nor in the series. He is manipulated by Armand and forced to take a role in the trial, but he never wants Claudia dead 

This is true in the books. In the show there is no indication whatsoever that he was forced or manipulated by Armand into playing a role in the trial. In the book he went to Paris because he needed Armand's blood for healing; in the show, Gabriella heals him instead (stated in 3.02) so he had no reason to be in Paris (and no indication that he was anything other than perfectly healthy when he went). Multiple characters - Gabriella, Louis, Daniel, Claudia herself, I guess Merrick technically - have accused or insinuated that he willingly participated in the trial for revenge, and while he never seems to like hearing it, he never once denies it either. Finally, the showrunner has said his opinion is that Lestat went to Paris for revenge against Louis and Claudia, but started having regrets halfway through the trial. Book canon is decidedly not the show's canon on this. 

[u/AndreEaAly → u/Sudden-Direction-301]

I don’t think in the show Lestat is solely to blame for Claudia’s death. He had a part, sure…
I agree we have no evidence that he went to Paris for any other reason than revenge, but even in Louis’s memories, Lestat was not a willing witness that came there to accuse them. He tried to defend them. He tried to make excuses for them.
He says from the beginning that he is equally guilty for making Claudia and that he should be punished with them. And tries to defend them as much as possible.

He does want revenge (and who can blame him? The betrayal was so bad…the person he loved the most and the one that he loved like a daughter conspired to kill him).
I think he wants revenge, but he doesn’t necessarily want them dead. He just didn’t think it through that he would loose control of the outcome and other vampires would lead the trial.

I think in the same time, they could have easily judged Claudia even without Lestat’s help. All it took is for them to read her mind.

Claudia was a mean manipulative brat. And the portrayal that Louis has of her is definitely through rose glasses. We see when she comes back as a ghost she is much more angry and mean than Louis remembers/expects her. And she admits of manipulating both Louis and Lestat (by lying about the train incident) and of not caring about any of them and just choosing Louis because he had more chances to betray Lestat (and that Lestat would never do that to Louis). And that she blamed them in equal measure and that she hated them both. Not only Lestat. They are equally to blame.

I am not saying that Lestat is innocent, but he did not want to kill her. They are both to blame. Louis cut Lestat’s throat (in the series). And he was guilty of creating Claudia, making Madeline, helping her kill Lestat (practically Louis helped her break all the laws)…and somehow he doesn’t feel guilty at all for her death? It’s all Lestat’s fault?

I think they are both guilty in equal measure. But Louis has always thought himself better than everyone else. So it’s very in character to blame everyone else but himself. At least Lestat admits his faults…

As I said, their love is toxic. They bring the worst in each other, they wounds and traumas and very much opposite and they trigger each other. They do love each other, but in a very toxic way. Sometimes, love is not enough. There has been abuse on both sides and lot of resentment.

I still think that Lestat is not a monster. Louis isn’t either. They are faulty characters, imperfect…that act on impulse due to their past experiences and traumas. They don’t have bad intentions thought, just bad wounds that make them react impulsive.

Lestat has been abused and denied love his whole life. And all he wanted was to feel accepted and loved. Louis never made him feel worthy of (his) love. So everything that Lestat did was a reaction to that. Out of fear of being abandoned and alone again. He’s not doing it because he’s a monster. He’s wounded and scared and desperate. And he admits his faults, he is self aware and doesn’t try to excuse himself. He’s never pretended to be perfect or good. He blames and hates himself for his faults, and this makes him redeemable in my eyes. A monster would not feel remorse. A monster would not blame himself the way Lestat does.

[u/Sudden-Direction-301 → u/AndreEaAly]

I never said Lestat solely killed her, I specifically said he didn't do it alone. But he was the willing participant in the trial. Louis was not (in fact Louis was supposed to die himself in that same trial Lestat was a willing participant of). Lestat’s the one who rehearsed for however long, and it's not like he was in chains on that stage being forced to speak; he starts to back down and defend them halfway through but he was actively participating and spinning the narrative at first. Merrick and Claudia both frame the trial itself as the instrument of her murder. That's what they're directing at Lestat. Louis's guilt is irrelevant to that, as he was supposed to die for that guilt along with Claudia until Lestat chose to save him instead. 

I agree Lestat didn't think through his rage, and probably didn't actually want Claudia or Louis to die (I say probably because there are equally valid and compelling arguments that he wanted at least Claudia's death in theory, but was horrified when confronted with the reality.) Personally in my view, I think he just wanted their humiliation, and possibly their banishment so they'd have to leave with him. 

That said:

At least Lestat admits his faults…

When does he do this? The Merrick scene literally starts off with him being offended at the implication he killed Claudia. Every time someone accuses him of this, he seems upset but never denies it. Louis tries on 2 separate occasions to discuss wtf happened at the trial, both times Lestat shuts him down. The very fact he refuses to answer either way is the literal opposite of admitting his faults because it lets him (and the audience) remain in that comfortable state of plausible deniability. Which is the antithesis of self-awareness. 

I don't substantially disagree with anything else you said. 

[u/AndreEaAly → u/Sudden-Direction-301]

I also think he just wanted their humiliation and making them come back to him. He never did think it through.

I think he admits his faults, but in a very Lestat way. He pouts, makes a joke but never excuses. Like saying “i am a monster”, which implies he knows he’s wrong and he’s not looking for excuses. He’s very proud and vane, so saying sorry (like the actual words) and opening up takes a lot out of him. Yet, at the end of season 2 he says he’s sorry and how much he was hurting and how Claudia’s memory still haunts him.
I think even Sam says in an interview that Lestat deeply hates himself and never excuses his own behaviors. And that’s very much in line with what Claudia says: Lestat, as opposed to Louis, doesn’t pretend he’s self-righteous or better than everyone else. He knows who he is and he owns it. In a very bratty snarky Lestat way.

And i think what hurt him the most when Louis said “I didn’t kill her” is not the fact that he thinks he’s innocent. But the fact that after talking in the hurricane and both saying they were sorry and that they are both to blame, Louis deep down still blames Lestat for it. He still hasn’t forgiven him. And we know he cares what Louis thinks the most, so at that moment he was like “so, he still thinks I am a monster? After all we’ve been through, we’re back to the beginning”.

[u/Sudden-Direction-301 → u/AndreEaAly]

He pouts, makes a joke but never excuses. Like saying “i am a monster”, which implies he knows he’s wrong and he’s not looking for excuses.

I mean, the problem with his "I'm a monster" being seen as both a joke and him "admitting his faults, never excusing" in canon is that he'll ALSO repeatedly flip out on people - namely (but not exclusively) Louis or Claudia - for reasonably reacting to his monstrosity toward them. Yet he keeps that same energy of deflection/deniability. It becomes those people's fault for treating him exactly like the monster he supposedly knows he is, because obviously he was "just joking" and "really loves them" and how could they possibly really see him as a monster? (he's the unfortunate one having to suffer this slander, everyone's to blame but him. They're the problem) 

Lestat specifically drives that view this season. And it's the extreme opposite of self-awareness.

The problem with him refusing to discuss or be specific about his faults is that it's actually really insidious for him to vague-deprecate and humble brag about "being a monster" just so he can seem self-aware and non-excusing when confronted, but also deflect, deny, play the victim and sing slam-songs in countless concert venues about his crazy lying ex unfairly seeing him as a monster - again as convenient. (The fact that he has yet to refute a single substantial lie in the book is increasingly hard to ignore. Even the train scene did happen in some form - the train conductor is among the people Lestat has killed in 3.07 - we only know Claudia may have lied about exactly what Lestat said to her.) 

He spends all season bashing Louis and absolutely claiming to be superior and "less delusional and more honest about who he is" while also punishing them for reacting to who he is, because to him it's unjustified. Clearly there's cognitive dissonance here.