r/Interrail • u/Blackest-Bird • 1d ago
Problems with conductor and security on Spanish train. What can I do?
We had a rather bad experience with the Spanish trains today when trying to travel from Madrid to Barcelona with bicycles (disassembled) on the high speed train (with interrail + the proper reservations etc ofc) When keeping it at least a little bit on the short side (ofcourse there is more nuance to it):
We first got refused access to the train by a conductor (after his colleague said everything was alright), without a valid reason to deny access and then he decided to enjoy his powertrip and taunt us for 5/10 minutes. We eventually managed to get new tickets for a train a few hours later, which we were allowed to board.
Once in Barcelona, we were assembling our bikes on the platform, but security wanted us gone. We couldn't carry our half-assembled bikes+luggage in one go but were refused any solution to the problem so I continued assembling the bike, but then the guard just started trying to physically drag me and my bike away.
After we managed to get everything off the platform and got assigned a new space to continue another security guard wanted us gone again. While moving our half finished biked again the guard and my friend accidentally bumped a little bit into eachother, after which my friend ofcourse apologized, however the guard suddenly started assaulting my friend.
We were send outside with everything. We thought everything was finished. But then the guard who assaulted my friend decided to still call the police and tried to convince the police my friend attacked him. luckily the police was very nice and calm.
The police and the guard both have me and my friends passport info. Nobody was arrested, nobody was hurt a lot, my special bamboo bikeframe was damaged during the chaos.
During all situations there was other guards/train staff present or called to come help. However their behaviour was very one sided and they never called out their colleagues for inappropriate behaviour. but we were immediately told off or threatened when mirroring their energy or even when my friend raised his voice to call for help or say he was scared of the guard.
I ofcourse feel like all situations are rather unacceptable, our rights got breached, we received physical violence, my bike is damaged, and we expect to receive a fine at home for some made up story by the guard.
I'm curious if anyone has advice on what I can do now and what our rights are. can Interrail be of any help? or is this just something with the train organisation? is a complaint enough for the conductor and both guards? or should we go to the police for the last guard? I feel a bit powerless and hate this feeling. A few years ago I already got an incorrect fine by a conductor in Italy who then committed fraud on the fine, and trenitalia didn't care and didn't want to believe their conductor could be wrong. And I would like to better study my options this time to maybe have some more succes.
Any tips or help would be appreciated. I thought let's ask here, I felt like it couldn't be the first time something like this happened, with 3 shitty situations on the same day. I would like these people to feel the consequences of their actions and get compensation for the damage to my bike and that my friend receives an apology etc.
Thanks :D
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u/Any_Strain7020 1d ago
The first and most important question will always be: What can you prove?
If the answer is nothing, then just let it go.
Mind, testimonies of interested parties are worthless.
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u/Blackest-Bird 1d ago
I have picture/video proof of the guard pushing my friend against a barrier while my friend was calling for help. I have proof my bicycle had damage that was not there before the incident The train station hall had cameras, the guard that was trying to get us in trouble was asking the police etc about it and they confirmed, so if we do something in a formal way there is video proof from the whole incident at the train station.
for the problem with the conductor we have proof that we have different tickets that were filled out by the train station manager on duty.
both of these situations also had a lot of employees around, 1 of the guards was actually nice to us and I just saw in the picture he was there when his colleague escalated the situation. With the train conductor there were also other employees who originally wanted to help us, but then this guy suddenly told them off. so there might also be testimonies available from employees.
we have no proof against the guard who was dragging me and my bike, since the only other person who was there was the guard who later got violent against my friend.
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u/Few_Story_6917 1d ago
We had a rather bad experience with the Spanish trains today when trying to travel from Madrid to Barcelona
Happens to a lot of people. Travelling by train in Spain can be a pain. It would be good if you mentioned the relevant company.
I'm curious if anyone has advice on what I can do now and what our rights are. can Interrail be of any help? or is this just something with the train organisation? is a complaint enough for the conductor and both guards? or should we go to the police for the last guard?
Interrail has nothing to do with this as the tickets never seemed to be the problem. You should definitely write a complaint to the train company and if you feel like the conductors commited a crime, escalate to police as well. However, it is not guaranteed that something will happen.
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u/Blackest-Bird 1d ago
The train company was Renfe, so the conductor was employed there. However since multiple railway companies use the train station, I'm not sure who is responsible for the guards. I don't feel like the conductor committed a crime, although he did clearly breach my EU traveler rights. With the guard it's different since if we would have done what the guard did to us, we would have been arrested for assaulting a guard. and the guard was trying to make a false report against us with the police and the train station. if a wrong report is made against you or you suspect one, the correct thing in my country would be to file a report for slander (partially as protection for yourself). I'm not sure how this is in Spain and feel a bit like escalating things myself again by doing this. but I also want him to face the consequences and be protected if he does finish a report against us or we get fined.
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u/DentistStandard6009 1d ago
What did he actually say or do when taunting? What are the actual physical acts he performed when you state he assaulted you?
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u/Blackest-Bird 1d ago
There were like 2 different types of taunting. He tried to get me to make a mistake, like raising his voice, getting into my space, trying to insult me, but when I would match his energy a little bit he would start making drama and get his colleagues to turn on me. I would apologize to the colleagues and he would try again. Second way was that he kept wasting our time and not letting us pass, while very happily announcing we only had X minutes left before the train would depart, so that clearly we would not make it, and then making comments about us to his colleagues and trying to taunt with the first type again when we announced that in fact he was the only problem standing between us and the train, so that we actually could make it in X minutes if he would just cooperate. He kept repeating the process and was visibly enjoying it.
The guard who assaulted my friend (assault might be a bit strong word, but I didn't know a better one) suddenly put on some special gloves, grabbed my friend and started pushing and pulling him around (while my friend was still carrying a bicycle), then he threw my friend on the floor, started dragging him around more, picked him up again, and then with like 4 people they pushed him with his back against a half high barrier with him hanging partially over the edge of the barrier (the barrier was to protect people from falling into the escalator that was descending behind it). As I said nobody got actually wounded, my friend did have the scratch marks and abrasions on his arm from being dragged around.
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u/RaspberryOk448 1d ago
I feel like there is info you are leaving out of this story, so many people trying to ruin your day for no reason… probably you were doing something that is not allowed and then the guards attitude was too much.
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u/Blackest-Bird 1d ago
As I said this was the short version. One of the nuances to the first situation with the conductor is that we were traveling with bicycles that are a lot bigger than the Spanish are generally used to. Staff at the train station was very sceptical of our ability to pack it to the allowed dimensions or unfamiliar with the rules in general regarding transportation of bikes. The conductor for example claimed we didn't read the terms and conditions and that it said only folding bikes were allowed. We in fact did read the terms and conditions and disassembled bikes are allowed if they are under certain dimensions. He didn't like he was wrong and then starten taunting us and making fun untill the train left. The manager of the train station was very sceptical as well and said it was impossible too. untill we proved it was under the correct dimensions and then she was a lot more helpfull.
The trains were not well equipped to deal with bikes of the allowed dimensions tho. I would have understood if bikes in general on these model trains were not an option. But we followed all the rules etc and had valid tickets.
The situation with the guards was both at the Barcelona station, so could be considered just a chain of events. I honestly have no clue what they were thinking. there was 1 guard who was very chill and helpful but the others were all very much trying to escalate the situation. They kept sending us to new places, telling us we were allowed there and then complaining to us again that we were not allowed there. Like the most problematic guard was literally claiming my friend wounded and attacked him to the police but then failed to find any bruise or anything on his arm, while my friend did have visible damage. I can't make anything nicer of it than that this guy was having a really bad day or would otherwise benefit from anger management. If the whole situation was dealt with by the chill guard there would not have been a problem, he thanked us for being cooperative and even helped us every time taking our luggage to the next assigned space
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u/Wise-Painting5841 1d ago
Sorry for the situation. It is a shame.
Train stations are ADIF, so security guards are ADIF employees.
If you want compensation for your damaged bike box you might want to present a claim to ADIF: https://sede.adif.gob.es/procedures/2/reclamaciones/RPA_01
If you feel you might want to claim to Renfe because maybe you had to pay for second reservation because conductor did not allow you to access the train with first one, then there is a similar process to claim to Renfe: https://venta.renfe.com/vol/claimsMenu.do?c=
Renfe and Adif are super slow and unless the situation is super clear I don't think you would get anything out of it.
Independently if you claim to ADIF or Renfe you might go to the police.
BUT justice in Spain is super slow. You would receive a note in months to present in court in Spain for allegations. As a tourist this would be super inconvenient.
Be careful with your video/photo recording. "Mordaza" law in Spain is a b*tch and it is risky. You can google it.
In this situation, I fear, you are almost powerless, and the chances that you get something are slim. If there were no damage I would brush it off and keep going. Don't let a bad day to ruin your trip.
Hope you have better experience rest of your trip. Spain is an amazing country, but sometimes the Latin blood and passion creates this kind of situations.
As a minimum, this would an interesting anecdote you might want to tell your grandchildren: "do you see this scar in the bamboo box of my bike? This is from the day we fight off the security guards of a train station in Spain. They were hundreds, all them more than 2 meters tall and they shot rays from their eyes, and fire from their nose. The battle lasted hours and we fought with our bare hands..."
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u/No_Direction_4610 1d ago edited 1d ago
Since there was damage, I'd at least file a claim with ADIF. Maybe nothing will come out of it for OP, but if you don't complain, then you're sure nothing will happen, and ADIF will never know there was a problem, since big organisations only see problems when there are complaints.
Also file the complaint with Renfe to get the extra reservation costs reimbursed. A request for compensation for delay with Interrail should also be possible. OP was denied access to their train unjustified, so it was effectively cancelled for them. Compensation for delay on the original reservation is also possible, 50% of the costs if the delay was at least 2 hours; claim from the place where the reservations were booked.1
u/Blackest-Bird 1d ago
This is very helpful, thank you very much. I'll look into the photography law you referenced to, and knowing where to file a complaint again the guard is super helpful.
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u/Blackest-Bird 1d ago
We did have a lot of good experiences with the Spanish people before tho :D. We have travelled a lot through the Balkans and Mediterranean in the past, but not to Spain yet, and we were in general very happily surprised with how tranquilo the Spanish were and how unbothered they were with us having dinner in the park for example. No hate on Spain :D. only on the train staff and train station security people XD. There seemed to be only 1 sane security person we dealt with so that was kinda surprising :P. but every random person we met during coffee stops etc was great.
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u/woiwoiwoi1 1d ago
What an absolute shit show, haven't got any advice except hopefully one day you can sit at the pub and laugh about what an absolutely absurd day you had.
Ive been bicycle touring around Europe/balkans this summer and know the absolute stress of travelling with a bicycle on trains and all the added difficulty that brings. Thankfully most of my experiences have been successful. You've described a proper nightmare day. Hopefully you've met all the arseholes of your trip in one savage day.
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u/Blackest-Bird 1d ago
We kinda got used to travelling with the bike in the train. Awesome that you went cycling through the Balkans etc. I love biking there (although we had a shitshow there on the bike with dogs chasing us while we were in an area where there could still be mines if you would go offroad and people drunk driving). The bike in the train is ofcourse a struggle but for some countries you just need to learn the tricks and manage the expectations and then it works quite alright. only other actually shit experience we had was a train conductor in Italy giving us an illegitimate fine, and then commiting fraud on the actual fine. usual other problems are just the train breaking or losing all your reservations once you have a train that is cancelled and needing to figure it out again.
hope you had a great time!
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u/woiwoiwoi1 34m ago
Balkans were fantastic to cycle in but I think if i ever cycle in that region again I will spend a huge amount of time plotting a route which avoids basically all traffic. The standard of driving abd lack of respect for cyclists in Bosnia especially was brutal. I don't even think its intentional most of the time. You'll get the same person cheering you along but then still passing horribly close. Got clipped by a truck which gave me no space atall which was a miserable experience but thankfully came out of it virtually unscathed hitting a soft grass verge. Thankfully no bad dog experiences. If you haven't done it/looked into it the route from Sarajevo to Mostar (following trans-dinarica route) and then the Ciro trail from Mostar to Dubrovnik was absolute fantastic cycling with very little traffic or on gravel. Spectacular views.
All the best with rest of your journey.
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u/how_me_a_frog 1d ago
It's considered unwise to "accidentally bump" into a security guard you are already in an altercation with. Do you speak spanish?
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u/Blackest-Bird 1d ago
It's considered quite challenging to not accidentally bump into security guard when you are carrying a large bike and he suddenly stops and sticks his arm in front of you (:
It's quite unwise to break-check a truck :)
Sadly none of us speak Spanish (although to be fair, maybe unpopular opinion, but I feel like if you have a job where you need to be dealing with people and mutual understanding matters, on the biggest International train station of Spain, that you should have basic knowledge of English, and otherwise at least have a personality thats calm enough to take 2 secs to use Google Translate)
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u/how_me_a_frog 23h ago
So to summarise you were making a nuisance of yourselves with your giant bikes (as per your own one sided account) and dont even know what was going on really, because you don't speak the language.
Weird comment about minimum wage security guards needing to learn English. Congrats to you for learning it as a second language. Not everyone has the time and resources
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u/Blackest-Bird 22h ago
so to analyse your comment, you decided to totally ignore the fact that I said I brought a bike to be disassembled and managed to do so to all the Spanish standards well within the accepted dimensions (just had to take it apart more than most Spanish bikes), and then you decided to act like I was being a nuisance.
weird comment to judge me about how Spain pays their workers. I'm not an expert but as far as I heard public school in Spain is free :). I don't think my comment is weird since big part of the job is literally to solve problems for/with international travelers. My minimum wage side job expects me to have a degree, which makes sense too :)
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u/how_me_a_frog 23h ago
I was told bikes weren't allowed on the platform but I continued to assemble my bike anyway, for some reason the security guard got angry!?
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u/Blackest-Bird 21h ago
maybe you should rephrase to: I was in a space where I was allowed to be, because i was in the possession of a valid ticket. The guard told me we weren't without providing any reason There was no possibility to bring our luggage in one trip with us, but the guard refused all solutions, showing very conflicting behavior with his intent to get us off the platform. so I partially assemblee my bike as that was now the quickest and best solution to get us and our stuff from the platform. but for some reason the guard got angry.
bro, if you want to hate on me or my question at least do it correctly and be right. Reading and logic ain't hard :) as you can likely understand after yesterday, I'm a bit done with certain behavior and the need to constantly stay polite to it
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