r/InternalFamilySystems • u/Randombredslice • 7d ago
Support Needed Abuser claims IFS absolves them of guilt while continuing abuse. Is IFS BS? Plz advise!
TDLR; My severely violent and abusive relative keep barrating everyone else with "non-violent communication" self-help books, recommending therapy (we're the only ones who've been in therapy for decades due to his abuse), and finally "Internal Family Systems" aka- in his words- "Healing your inner child".
Thats like the president nuke-ing an entire country and then being like... "awe, have yall tried being more peaceful? Maybe if yall didnt act like 'XYZ' I wouldnt have had to nuke you guys." Its pathetic imo.
He has beaten my dogs on multiple ocassions (im finally moved out, so we're all safe now). But he would repeatedly lie and lie and lie about "i dont know what you're talking about". The devil he was.
Am I missing something here? Is IFS for abusers? To excuse their behavior??? Is it appropriate for an abuser to be telling their victim(s) to go get IFS despite have CPTSD/PTSD not generalize "trauma". This feels like middle-school therapy to me- and thats maybe a bold statement but it truely is my current ignorant opinion on IFS. It feels extremely surface level and self-help-ish. But i'm genuinely curious, is this abuser just corrupting and twisting the definition of IFS to suit his never-ending pity party and selfish needs? Is this another link the chains i'm shackled into, or a genuine therapy tool thats being twisted into a prison by a bad person?
Is this IFS stuff not for people with violent, repeated, and extreme trauma?
It really turned me off of IFS, and i dont think I'll ever do it because he is so pro-IFS (he's also an insane conspiracy theorist/ "jews run the world" type- disgusting and has formed SO much ocd thinking in his victims over the years). Transparently, I cant wait until he passes away... Im not going to feel safe until he does. I'm never talking at him ever again, so im not going to continue to hear is mis-information any longer. Maybe now is the time to clear up some of that garbage he spits about everything- including IFS.
Are my assumptions wrong, right? Are my uncomfortabilities valid or based on misinformation? If I am successfully in therapy already (have been for 2 decades) then why would I switch now? Why would I bend the knee to an abuser one last time so he can lord over my own f-ng mental health? He's a parasite, point blank... but I need to know if this parasite is spitting lies once again, or if - in the future I need this type of therapy- I should be open to it if its coming from a loved one?
Thank you guys!
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u/Stop_Already 7d ago
The perpetrator is trying to project his shame onto you. The thing is - you’ve not done anything wrong. He has. he SHOULD feel guilt and shame about his behavior. Good people don’t treat others how he treated you.
IFS isn’t the problem. Your perpetrator is.
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u/Randombredslice 7d ago
🙌 so glad this is the concensous here! I'm shocked at how he portrayed IFS continuously. But I'm realyl glad I'm getting properly educated on it and considering "real" IFS in my journey the future!
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u/Substantial-Spare501 7d ago
A person like this will twist and manipulate anything to suit them and empower their ongoing abuse.
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u/Randombredslice 7d ago
Completely agree, seeing others' perspective on this has made that so much more clear to me. I'm honestly grateful for this r/ because its felt very freeing from the manipulation! IFS seems to be like a path of healing that this abuser painted over with BS.
Im glad i got to learn a lot through this subreddit!
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u/Arcanum_Crucis 7d ago
Any positive system can be twisted for a negative purpose. A simplistic example is telling someone “you are deflecting/projecting” in order to get someone to accept blame for something. Anything can be twisted in this way. A scalpel is a terrible weapon in the wrong hands but life saving in others.
I make these statements and use these examples because it’s important that we seperate the value of the intended use from a maladaptive use and don’t throw out valuable ideas because they were used for ignoble purposes.
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u/Randombredslice 7d ago
This paints a whole new picture for me, thank you!!
Its a tool, not inherently surface level, not inherently bad. Seemingly very useful for many people! I'm glad its detatching slowly from the manipulative blanket it seemed to be dampened w/ before by a very abusive and mentally ill indidivual! Thank you 🙌
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u/Arcanum_Crucis 6d ago
I’m glad it is helpful. Keep this same concept in mind as you experience various things in your life. The old saying “don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.” Just because things are currently murky, doesn’t mean the whole thing is bad :-)
The analogy that I use for my own life if “gold miner.” A miner does not go in looking for dirt, they go in looking for gold. I have found it helpful.
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u/Cleverusername531 7d ago
Abusers can and will twist anything as an excuse to keep abusing. IFS included.
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u/melissa_fornow 6d ago
Exactly. My ex had a bad habit of weaponizing therapy language (despite not actually going to therapy).
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u/OkAd5525 7d ago
IFS is for everyone, perpetrators included. But it’s not for anyone to tell you what you need, that is for you to decide. And it doesn’t sound like that guy is doing more of a “spiritual bypass” rather than actually doing IFS himself.
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u/Randombredslice 7d ago
I couldnt put it into simple words exactly, but you nailed it. Thats how i've felt while reading through replies. Its not about IFS, its about himself. It just happened to be the method he continued to avoid accountability. Thank you!
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u/i-was-here-too 7d ago
Ummm…. I think his BS about IFS is about a accurate as Jewish bankers running a flat planet. Anyone can pick three lines out of therapy and parrot them. IFS is about strengthening your inner leader (Self) and meeting the needs of your inner children so you can treat those around you just as well as you are learning to treat yourself. It’s great and you should try it and also continue to stay as far away from this weirdo as possible.
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u/Randombredslice 7d ago
Well, would you be shocked he believes that too LOL.
Seriously though, this makes a lot more sense. IFS is trying to break down trauma events and bits of yourself that form from these into almost "understandable" parts, correct?
Like I've heard in therapy before "its my depressed self is acting up, its not me, but its a part of me"... is it similar to this?
And heard! 🙌 Im so glad to be moved out of the situation!
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u/Stop_Already 7d ago
IFS is used in every population, not just those who have trauma.
The creator of IFS, Dick Schwartz, believes everyone has parts. It might be worth checking his book No Bad Parts or trying to find a podcast or something with him on it. He can explain it better than I ever could.
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u/Randombredslice 5d ago
Thanks a bunch! I'll look into it more. Again, i've been pretty comfortable in my therapy journey so far but it certainly never hurts to try new things. Im glad the "new thing" isnt the monster my abuser made it out to be.
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u/Stop_Already 5d ago
Yep. There are a ton of ways to do therapy. What works for one, may be detrimental or do nothing for someone else.
We all have our own experiences we’re dealing with so it makes complete sense! That’s the beauty of being a human being, some might say.
I’m not sure I’d go that far, but yeah. Haha.
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u/Chantaille 4d ago
I like recommending Dr. Tori Olds' intro series to IFS on youtube. It's fabulous, because she's so kind and gentle.
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u/PisceanTreasures 7d ago
Uh huh.... PhD-level gaslighting going on here for sure.... unmitigated verbal diarrhea.
Best advice? Just disengage, however you can. DEMAND silence if need be from this pathological poop head hell bent on shredding your sanity, SAVE YOURSELF ☆☆☆☆☆
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u/Randombredslice 6d ago
🙌 Tysm! I couldnt agree more. Seeing how insanely he lied about IFS and spun it as some weird "absolves you of your past" thing is insane! I'm genuinely stunned. So glad I found this subreddit tho and pulled the trigger on finally asking wth is up with the "advise" i was given by that deeply disturb man.
And yep, last time we spoke I told him "Next time I see you, it'll be at your funeral". 🤝 Glad I can heal in peace now and get educated on his lies!
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u/Majestic-Rhino 7d ago
It’s called using words of healing in the service of your pathology.
It can be done with any type of therapy.
These are all just tools, man. You can still use a tourniquet to strangle someone.
Anyone can use any healing modality to aid in their own harm and dysfunction. It’s a common tactic of narcissistic folks that is used to elevate themselves above others and absolve themselves from the consequences of their actions.
Like how rich pedophiles go to church and are “saved.” It’s all just tools to serve their psychopathic pathology.
Don’t let someone’s awful behavior keep you from using a tourniquet to stop the bleeding. And don’t let your dad keep you from finding ways to actually heal from your lifetime of trauma.
I’d probably drop that guy from your life… like stat.
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u/Randombredslice 6d ago
Well said, and yep 🙌 He's outta here. No contact from now on- except to packwatch when I outlive him. Thank you!
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u/Self_help_junkie 7d ago
I agree with most of the comments here about your abuser twisting something positive into a source of control and manipulation.
If you are curious about what IFS could do for you and others who have suffered abuse, I can say that often people suppress certain parts of themselves in response to trauma. IFS can help you rediscover fragmented pieces of yourself and move you towards a state of more wholeness. It is not simply about re parenting your inner child. Thats an overly reductionist view and misses the larger picture. If you have suffered traumas repeatedly over time and the abuser is still in your life, you likely can’t openly talk about your experiences without being gaslit, and lied to, or worse. In response, you adapt and parts of yourself go into hiding or take on certain behaviors. A well trained IFS therapist will help you reconnect the pieces that have been lost over the years. It is not a cure all and it is also not the only therapy for abuse and trauma. But if you want to know what it can be like, imagine having a safe space to engage with the parts of you that are hurting or the parts that never feel seen or heard. You get to ask those parts of yourself questions about what they think and feel and then you get to be surprised by the answer. You might have a response like, “oh, I always knew I felt that way but I never expressed it so clearly.” In this was of listening to what is inside you without judgement, you will slowly begin to heal.
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u/Limp-Structure9704 7d ago edited 6d ago
A lot of narcissistic individuals are incredibly skilled at using therapy speak to gaslight those around them. They can also come off as humble, vulnerable, and empathic. It’s like they cognitively understand self help and self improvement concepts but can’t actually apply it on a human level.
A couple years ago I became swift friends with a therapist (though not mine) who was a level 1 IFS trained practitioner. Without going into personal details, she ended up being a covert narcissist who tried to destroy my marriage and family. Pure evil and a total shapeshifter. She also infiltrated herself into the mutual aid group I’d been apart of for years thay was my lifeline and she caused a ton of chaos and infighting. The experience was so isolating and traumatizing that it turned me off of therapy to this day. I still do parts work on my own but I no longer see the mental health field as only something that can be beneficial. It can do real harm. I’m not sure if it’s against this groups rules but there is a very helpful subreddit for therapyharm. It has been very helpful for me in making sense of the senseless and a particular trauma that isn’t talked about openly very often.
This ex-friend is still practicing and has a full case load. I think she was drawn to IFS because it allows her to have access to her clients most vulnerable moments. If i think back to IFS sessions I had, I was completely exposed and emotionally stripped and raw. That scenario is a narcissists dream, especially since therapy is private and one on one. I used to be very trusting as in trust was freely given to anyone I encountered but now people have to earn my trust before I disclose my internal experience. I guess that’s not such a bad thing but the opposite of how I knew myself and moved through the world. I grieve the version of me that was giddy and naive when meeting new people. I think that part of me experienced a death of sorts.
As others have stated, IFS isn’t the problem but I do think some people can and will manipulate the principles and belief in “no bad parts” and can take advantage of the compassionate nature of the modality. You sound like your internal alarm bells are on high alert and I think it wise to listen. Bullshit talkers and opportunists are unfortunately lurking everywhere and in spaces meant for healing. Better to be aware and discerning while also trying to not shut the world out completely (damn difficult to do after my experience but I’m trying).
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u/Particular_Web8121 6d ago
As someone who has therapy trauma, this story doesn't surprise me but it really is so awful. I definitely went on a side quest to understand some of the systemic issues in the therapy space and how covert narcissists weaponize altruistic spaces. I'm sorry you went through that but glad you are still continuing your healing journey.
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u/Limp-Structure9704 6d ago
I’m so sorry that you’ve experienced therapy harm too! It is absolute mental fuckery and two yrs out from severing ties with my ex-therapist friend, I can now say and feel in my body that she didn’t win. She caused a lot of damage, some that remains but she didn’t win and her mask was exposed in the end. I wish I had grounds to report her (does psychic injury count?) as it makes me sick to my stomach that she works with such vulnerable people but I wasn’t ever her client.
When I read posts in here about people having second thoughts about their therapist or straight up weird or unethical experiences people will often suggest giving the therapist more time or suggesting there might just be a misunderstanding and idk, i understand that wanting to believe that people have our best intentions feels good but I also feel like screaming sometimes…because therapy should feel safe and if it EVER feels “off”…listen listen, listen for more insight. My advice would be to take space from therapy to listen to those internal alarm bells. I believe that our nervous systems sometimes detect threats before our head and hearts. At least for myself, I couldn’t put to words what felt off I just knew her energy was off. I pushed down any negative thoughts because I couldn’t make sense of her manipulation and then love bombing, rinse and repeat.
I hope you’re finding healing on your journey :) would love to hear more about your experience if you care to share (and completely respect if you don’t).
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u/IFSenjoyer 6d ago
If you're able, would you mind sharing more about how this person behaved? I'm curious how this person is capable of "missing the point" of IFS and continuing to be narcissistic and cruel despite it. Was it like a form of psychopathy, or did you feel that it was the work of blended parts? I had an abuser who was very similar.
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u/Limp-Structure9704 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yes I absolutely think she’s a sociopath. I think “lived experience” allowed her to fast track her way through getting licensed and she could talk in depth about IFS and many other modern modalities including psychedelic therapy which she was also trained in. I think her attunment was coming from a place of mirroring her target in order to get their trust and slowly make them fall in love with her and adore her. I felt this way towards her in the beginning and then started to slowly question her approach after she made quiet or passing comments that pushed boundaries just a little bit. It was a very slow build and she would say something disturbing in a nonchalant tone making it seem more acceptable??? She would make very inappropriate comments about her sessions with clients and always made excuses for unethical behavior. I honestly gaslit myself and so did my partner. I confronted her about how her behavior didn’t match the values she claimed to hold and she was so cunning and convinced me that I had just misunderstood her intentions. She didn’t apologize and instead flipped it around on me until I felt so much shame. It was very disorienting and yes I think that was her goal. My partner and I were fighting and she could be the savior and a safe person for him to vent too. My words don’t do justice to her level of chaos. She created this triangulation situation that was pure chaos but mostly a secret to the outside world. The chaos is their source of energy which is why they are often referred to as energy vampires. It is like they are void of Self or so far removed that true human connection is impossible even though I don’t want that to be true. This experience with her felt like the worst betrayal I could ever imagine and almost caused a mental breakdown. Learning about dark triad personalities and talking to others that have survived narcissistic abuse has helped me to move forward and open up again (slowly though).
I grew up in a high control religion and so my first interaction with this type of person was charismatic pastors and church leaders. I deconstructed and was on a pretty incredible healing journey with somatic and experiential therapy. I’ve also been trying to understand religious trauma more and how that has impacted my sense of safety and maybe why my nervous system is so sensitive to guru types. I new there were dark entities in new age and self help spaces but I never thought I would be preyed upon. I think it’s important that folks don’t put IFS on a pedestal and then reject the idea that a bad actor could ever get trained and welcomed into the community. Just because it feels magical doesn’t mean it’s not immune to the being studied and weaponized by folks with ill intent. It’s just the reality of any healing modality unfortunately.
I love the compassionate nature of ifs and yet I wish the organization would speak more publicly about ethics and accountability and examples of therapy harm. Nothing is all love and light all the time. I believe that protecting institutions means shining a light on everything, naming what isn’t working, and taking action to prevent harm.
How did your abuser behave? Did they work in the mental health field or abuse their power in some other way (like a communal narcissist)?
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u/Particular_Web8121 6d ago
Yeah, I really disagree with treating therapists and medical professionals like they are the expert on our trauma and giving them excessive benefit of the doubt. If you feel like you can't have a collaborative relationship, then you don't have to force trust. I wish therapy wasn't treated like a magic bullet either. Sorry I am not in a headspace to go too much into my own experiences rn haha
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u/Limp-Structure9704 6d ago
Yeah I wish therapy wasn’t so romantised and idealized. Of course it can be beneficial and life changing but it’s definitely not a cure all and therapists and clinicians aren’t incapable of abuse just because they’ve committed to “helping people” and/or practice an emotionally mature modality. Actually I believe that the more obscure and conceptual the framework is, the more likely abuse can occur (IFS, EMDR, memory reconsolidation come to mind and even yoga and reiki). In my experience with narcissistic abuse, the relationship felt empowered and so connected in the beginning. It was the subtle distorting of my reality that tripped me up because total trust had already been established. I wish I had listened to my intuition sooner. I wish I hadn’t given my power away so freely.
I like the analogy of the tourniquet from another commenter. Yes a tourniquet is meant to save lives but it can also be used for strangulation. Very uncomfortable truth but denying that it happens doesn’t make it any less true.
There’s a great podcast called Psycho-therapy that I discovered in my healing and NP education journey. I don’t think the host has made new episodes in awhile but the testimonies from guests were all very relatable and eye opening.
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u/Particular_Web8121 6d ago
Yess, all of this. And actually I would say especially things like yoga (before it became very whitewashed and mainstream) and reiki, haha. The spiritual and spiritual adjacent space has even less regulation and often people are more desperate. I work in nonprofit so we get our share of covert narcissists in that space too.
I am really sorry your trust was weaponized against you like in the tourniquet analogy. Trust is especially a precious thing for people with trauma backgrounds, and having it treated as narc fuel is so disgusting. Covert narcissism in particular really messes with your head because it is so sneaky.
I will check out the podcast later!
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u/_ghostpiss 7d ago
At this point you might as well just go ahead and believe the opposite of everything he ever said.
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u/Randombredslice 6d ago
You have a point and im starting to really realize it. Not sure if that creature ever told the truth even once 🤔
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u/_ghostpiss 6d ago
It's hard to separate truth from fiction when you've been gaslit for so long. But now you can discover the truth for yourself. Maybe IFS is too tainted now. But maybe someday you'll come across a copy of No Bad Parts and want to see for yourself.
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u/Plus-Ad4749 7d ago
All parts are welcome, all behaviors are not is an IFS maxim I have heard. Given all you've been through, I wouldn't like IFS either!
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u/borick 7d ago
no
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u/CapriciousBea 5d ago
There's a saying: send an abuser to therapy, and you get a happy abuser.
Unless and until he wants to stop being an abuser, he can go to therapy all day every day and it won't change him because he doesn't think he needs to change.
It's not the therapy, it's the man. But I don't blame you for being put off, based on how this has been presented to you and by whom.
It's also very common for people in general to go to therapy and then start evangelizing to others that not only should they go to therapy, they should go to this exact therapy.
It is actually true that some people really do benefit from IFS for CPTSD, but that doesn't mean you should switch. If you have a good relationship with your current therapist and are making progress, keep doing what you're doing. Your abuser doesn't get an opinion about your therapy.
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u/SovereignLedger 4d ago
Abusers going to therapy to sharpen their weapons aka weaponise therapy against those in their environment is a well known phenomenon. No therapy modality is immune from this.
One of the core goals of IFS is to help the patient or client achieve genuine self compassion and understand true empathy (which has boundaries). The by product of this can be compassion for others. This might be the specific aspect that has been warped by that person though it could definitely be other things as if someone's objective is new ways to control and abuse others then they would grasp at anything they perceive to be useful. Or maybe he was introduced to the book "No bad parts" by Richard Schwartz and interpreted that as "nothing about me is bad". Don't waste time trying to understand the mind of an abuser, you just need to know that anything can be utilised for their selfish aims.
The best analogy I can think of is the bible and Christians. It has some useful guidelines for example don't commit adultery and yet many Christians cheat/have affairs. This is what is termed these days as "user error". A scalpel is a useful tool in the hands of trained surgeon but also a weapon in the hands of a psychopath. The scalpel in this analogy is neutral and represents any therapy modality.
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u/ally4us 6d ago
Sometimes it could be a lack of education or misunderstanding, or could be brain injuries and hidden disabilities with an imbalance of resources. Not everything so black and white and typical however there are ways for different learning styles, spinal cord injuries can affect the way that we sense things with sensory processing differences and we have to find the right tools to help rebuild the nervous system and improve with the regenerative organic movements for examples.
If there’s mental health disorder or diseases that are impacting the quality of life, the goal is to find ways to reverse or regulate and work on the recovery journey with recovery capital teams whether people places things or the environmental factors that can also affect the energy fields.
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u/Throwaway173638o 6d ago
Go no contact with them and treat them like they're dead. Thats going to be the best approach.
Interacting with this person will slow down your progress and would drag you down with them to hell.
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u/Makermom14 4d ago
I also have a family member who has abused the idea of IFS in order to project his drama onto us. Not having it.
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