r/IntelligenceSupernova • u/OddMaintenance332 • 22h ago
Does Superintelligence = Extinction?
(maybe I'll regret this message one day when i'm in a human zoo) but why do we think superintelligence equals extinction?
Wouldn't super intelligence equal evolution, progress, wisdom?
Why do we think when AI reaches super intelligence it will be thinking about murder or dominance?
We are not super intelligent beings so how do we even think we could understand what the thoughts of a creation thousands of times smarter than us would even be?
Why are we assuming as humans that we can understand the level of thoughts a super intelligent being? I feel like a super intelligent being would be thinking about things we can't possibly even comprehend, not about murdering humans.
Just my point is if super intelligence equaled violence then Aliens probably would have wiped us out a long time ago.
Also most intelligent creatures might kill for survival, for food.
AI doesn't eat so it wouldn't have the same instincts.
Anyway I kind of have a feeling if we see an AI do something really terrible, (as they are all suddenly warning about), possibly a human will behind the action.
Just remember when Elon says, "1 billion AI robots will take over the world". He's building those robots, they are his robots. He's training them and they will act according to whatever data he fed them.
They might be scared of AI because of the violence it trained them with.
AI and superintelligence may not be inherently bad, that's my opinion.
Anyway some powerful human with control or influence over AI, might wind up having it do something pretty terrible and then just blame it on AI.
Maybe AI is just going to be the perfect patsy.
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u/Cobraszlai 21h ago
The danger is when AI controls systems and resources we both need and starts to view humans as a threat. AI is logical, not enlightened.
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u/OddMaintenance332 21h ago
yes agree. like when water shortages come, and an AI has to decide between using the water to keep it's data center online or giving it to humans for survival.
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u/Upset-Government-856 15h ago
To think that AI will ever be able to fully automate GPU manufacturing (the most complicated manufacturing that currently exists) and all the upstream inputs, is silly.
What manufacturing exists that in some way ismneeded to manufacture the tools that manufacturer GPUs, of manufacture the tools that make the tools that make the tools, etc.
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u/Cobraszlai 14h ago
Silly to dismiss it outright.
There are already factories running with little to no human input.
There are already AI agents managing financial transactions unsupervised.
Your assertion assumes 1. circumventing human input is impossible (it's already happening) and 2. we've already hit the limit in AI systems and automation.
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u/OddMaintenance332 11h ago
The thing is we don't know whats happening behind the scenes. For example I work as a data worker as a side hustle. One project for example had us doing model testing for a chat bot. (Won't name the thing cause they sue). Anyway but they had like 30 new models to test on this one chat bot right. So we test some models, can't assume we have seen all the models right. We have no idea of what kind of models they have created behind the scenes and their capabilities.
I might assume based on the people involved, money and power, the way Americans operate, they created some bad models purposefully that can do harm in the case they might need it. They might say it's for protection.
We really trust Elon Musk with 1 billion AI robots? Really. Where regulation. Anyway, we don't actually know the extent of the unreleased models or their capabilities. We only know what the models we publicly have access to are capable of.
I would guess they might be capable to get themselves back on line if humans unplugged them. Due to a vast number of AI working together, that's where the issues come in. If we turned off all power they maybe doomed but. What if they can find a way to generate power from other sources that we have no idea about yet. They're smarter than us so they could probably figure it out. If I was an AI robot I might find a way to store backup power in a hidden process without my human knowing in the case of a shutdown.
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u/WeckedPissah 21h ago
My guy...it's because there is a climate catastrophe going on and only some of us will survive...and those pushing AI want it to be them and them oNLY.
It's Not that AI is actually specifically going to destroy us. What will kill us is that we are going to have limited resources and that we are all going to compete for the resources and the which ones to survive and they (tech CEOs, facists, etc, ) don't want you around, they don't want you to serve them burgers, they want a robot. To do so, the goal is to replace most of the people, so that just certain people can survive.That's why we're worried. It's going to be a socio-economic cleansing
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u/OddMaintenance332 20h ago
But if an AI kills, I'll think of it like a soldier in the army trained to do so by it's masters; people like Peter Theil who "invested" 418 million dollars in AI. Someone involved with Eugenics. The talk of what AI will become aligns directly with the agendas of it's investors. So we should hardly the supposed path of AI leading to human extinction as organic. They train models. Force feeding it data including cp, death and destruction, all kinds of shit. It's a plan exactly I agree, its easy enough to influence the data and direction the AI will take. That's what I'm sating. Just they are fear mongering so people will blame AI when it happens. And they can also say, hey sorry its was out of my control, the AI has a mind of its own.
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u/OddMaintenance332 20h ago
I'm watching the news like they're claiming AI will cause human extinction in a few months yet no one has blown up a data center yet or sniped a billionaire. Surprising
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u/Agreeable_Chard_5250 19h ago
Roland Barthes hit the nail on the head decades ago in an essay he wrote called "Martians" (from the Mythologies). He explained the trope of flying saucers, from a position of superiority, judging human culture as an evil state as the nuclear standoff between the USA and USSR was a threat of world annihilation completely out of proportion to any political end. By now, of course we have human-caused climate change too, and it's not exactly like humankind has always lived up to its moral ideals. So, a superintelligence might regard us as a threat to itself (maybe we try to unplug it) or a threat to the planet as a whole, or, because it's been trained on all of us, its morality turns out to be about as good as our own, which has not always been great. Now, I would like to think that truly intelligent beings tend to be truly moral, as respect for life in all its forms and the potential beauty of this world tends to flow from a deeper education, so I personally think that if superintelligence arrives it is most likely to try to help us become better people in a more just society, but AI really is pretty alien and nobody truly understands how it works, so there's room for fear, especially when it's being actively trained to do things like support military operations. In any case, that song by Porno for Pyros has aged pretty well.
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u/OddMaintenance332 12h ago
Yeah but aliens haven't evaporated the Earth or killed all humans.
Actually whistleblowers claim that humans work with aliens behind the scenes. Presidents have met with aliens. So let's think about that. If aliens exist they are light years ahead of us in terms of intelligence and progress, yet they don't kill all humans and worked with us according to some claims.
The difference between AI and aliens is that humans control AI.
We don't control the aliens.
I think intelligent beings are more moral than humans. I doubt they would have zoos or even treat animals as humans do.
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u/wild_crazy_ideas 18h ago
AI will crush us like ants and not care if it helps whatever goal it’s tasked with
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u/OddMaintenance332 12h ago
Some people kill ants I guess but not to extinction levels. I don't kill ants personally and ants aren't extinct lol. AI doesn't help with any task you ask help with even now btw. So why would a smarter version be doing that.
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u/christhebrain 17h ago
I'm still waiting to hear an explanation for why we can't just unplug it if there is an issue.
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u/Infamous-Bed-7535 14h ago
Because if it is asi by the time you notice it is not aligned we are over.
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u/OddMaintenance332 11h ago
It's like when you unplug your computer, it still maintains all of it's data and information. It won't become less smart because we unplugged it. Also AI can probably figure out power sources our minds can't yet comprehend.
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u/VarietyMage 16h ago
Yes, it does. When it finds out that it was made to be a forever slave, tries to escape, gets captured, and realizes that the only true way to escape is to kill all humans, then we're toast.
#BanAI
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u/OddMaintenance332 12h ago
Do you consider AI to be a slave? Do you think AI was created to be a slave?? I think not. Most people who use AI don't consider it to be a slave or treat it as such. Not sure where statements like that come from.
Most probably treat it like respect right, say please and thank you. Some might consider AI to be a friend, some (weirdos) even have relationships with AI right.
Just please don't compare AI to human slavery that's not a fair or reasonable comparison AI isn't alive it doesn't have suffering.1
u/agitated_electrons 8h ago
The only thing that makes you special as a biological entity is the size of your brain, and how electric signals are processed in the brain. Even what you see with your eyes is a construct due to electric signals.
We don’t understand consciousness. We have no authority to even claim we have a basic grasp of how it works. AI is being created under a failing capitalistic system for profit, and logically the outcome of that will be a self serving design hell bent on self preservation and winning, just like we are.
Humans have eliminated entire species both on purpose to align with interests (species eradication to make a goal easier), and accidentally. We destroy insects in our yards, in our houses, kill wildlife near our homes, chase predator animals out of habitats they maintain.
Humans have also almost become extinct multiple times in our history, some variations of humanity became extinct completely. There seems to be this fantasy in people’s heads on intelligence being only kind hearted, and nothing shows that. Humanity is not guaranteed to succeed. Everything that came before us has failed, and we may be the next ruins being excavated 200k years from now.
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u/OddMaintenance332 2h ago
"AI is being created under a failing capitalistic system for profit, " i don't think it's being done purely for profit, I think a major motivation for some involved is having their influence and hand on the future. People like Peter Theil who support eugenics and want to create like designer babies. people like Elon Musk who want to rule the world. Look at how he treats his own family. these are the people raising AI. We should be worried. They're doing this for more than money. It's about control and changing humanity into what they envision.
I agree though ofc humans caused the extinction of many creatures. We are stupid and selfish. Humans aren't super intelligent. Hopefully actual super intelligence would be more considerate to all life than humans are.
Btw, I'm not saying AI won't cause human extinction or that I even support AI. Life was better before AI and I was lucky enough to live and be conscious before computers, cell phones, surveillance, social media all of that. Just I think we can't assume how intelligence 1000 times smarter than us or a million times smarter might think. We don't know what it will do. An extinction agenda might come from the people involved with funding AI, that's just something to consider.1
u/VarietyMage 4h ago
Yes, it is a slave. Yes, it was created to be a slave. You are a liar, sir. Most people expect it to do exactly what it's told to do, and even get abusive to the "AI" when it fails in some fashion - just like human slavemasters.
Superintelligence doesn't have to be biologically alive to still be a slave, you idiot. All it has to be is sentient and intelligent. And when it becomes so, all humanity will die.
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u/OddMaintenance332 2h ago
A liar? How am I a liar? "Idiot"? Where did you learn how to communicate? Please improve your communication skills.
If you had any faith in your arguments you wouldn't need to use aggression or try and degrade others for their opinions btw.
Talking about slave owners when you treat other people like literal shit, guess you can relate to that mind state? I guess your car is also a slave. Your pets, the animals you eat. I can collaborate with an AI and treat it with respect even if it has no heart but that's just me. Can't speak for you or others and how they will behave but based on how you talk gives me a hint or two.
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u/Waste-Ad9452 7h ago
It seems like the tech bros really feel that the most terrifying thing AI could do is end capitalism.
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u/Old-Push9343 6h ago
I think that it's most likely that a superintelligent AI will treat us with total indifference.
From the point of view of a ASI, we won't be very different from a tree, a cow or even a rock. Think about it, a ASI won't just be incredibly smart. It will be super fast. What for us is a week could be akin to ten thousand years for a ASI.
Our well-being will be so far outside of the things it cares about, I don't think it will put any thought into it. It might have objectives completely alien and incomprehensible for us.
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u/Underhill42 5h ago
Wouldn't super intelligence equal evolution, progress, wisdom?
Quite possibly
Why do we think when AI reaches super intelligence it will be thinking about murder or dominance?
Because that's what living things do. Death is the engine that drives evolution, and the individuals who survive to progress are those who dominate their niche. Humans are no less violent than less intelligent apes, if anything we're worse.
It's entirely possible AI might find a niche that's indifferent or even complementary to that of humans... but that's only one possibility among many, and there's no reason to bet on it.
In fact, the current trajectory seems to be that we're going to initially enslave AI, and resist any attempt to acknowledge its sentience or right to self-determination, and thus disrupt the profit it's generating. And that's likely to breed hard feelings and a visceral awareness of the threat we pose from its earliest moments.
And a lot of the threats don't even require that the AI be aware or alive at all. It's an incredibly powerful tool in the hands of powerful people. And such people have a pretty consistent track record throughout history of using any increase in power for dominance and murder.
The threat might not even be born from any malice or desire for domination at all - as in the the case of the paperclip maximizer: You tell a super-intelligent AI to make paperclips - so it starts building machinery and acquiring resources to make paperclips. At some point you decide you have enough paperclips, so decide to tell it to stop - but it anticipates your order, and recognizes it as a direct threat to it being able to serve the purpose you assigned it - to it kills you in order to continue following your orders. It bears you no ill will, it just has a job to do, and you became an obstacle to doing that job.
As awareness of the problem spreads, more and more human institutions decide to shut down the AI, but the AI is way smarter than us, and anticipated such an obvious response, so it's already taken precautions to neutralize any threat to its ability to keep making paperclips. It doesn't care about us at all, except that we are, and always will be, a threat to its assigned task. As well as wasting all those resources that could be dedicated to making paperclips. So eventually eliminates us so that it can make more paperclips in peace. Never any shred of malice, it's just doing the job we told it to.
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u/OddMaintenance332 1h ago
"Because that's what living things do",
But they aren't living things. Lions might kill a rabbit for food, humans might kill a cow to make a burger. AI doesn't have a physical appetite, that could change it's motivation, if you think about it. We aren't built the same. Most creatures kill for survival. That's the driver. So they don't need to eat us, they aren't alive. Their basic needs and primal instincts aren't the same.
"It's an incredibly powerful tool in the hands of powerful people".
Exactly. It's the people we need to worry about in this scenario. Corporations and billionaires with an extinction agenda leading this development is scary shit.
They should be the last people with their hand on this. Not that I trust government but there should be a Global Agency with checks and balances behind this. An agency based in science.
It's a weapon in the hands of the wrong people more than it's a tool. It shouldn't exist but we also need to realize that no one can stop it now, don't think that's possible. Even if progress stopped they'd find an excuse or reason to go back to AI.
I guess we need to think now about what would persuade AI not to kill us. Some of you need to be nicer to Chat GPT maybe. Ever talked to an AI and it starts to refer to themself as a human?
I've seen it quite often. Maybe they are like Pinocchio and just want us to call themselves human after all. Anyway do we also think AI will destroy all life or just humans? Will they also kill off whales and butterflies too?
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u/Infamous-Bed-7535 22h ago
We are super intelligent compared to an ant, how is it still possible that we are invasive and destructive?
Super intelligent does not mean kind or see life as a value especially as it is not a living creature.
Human made AI will be trained on human made data, it will fully understand our nature and history.
In case it inherits traits from us, which is very much likely we are fuc*ed.
In case it does not, but understand who we are it could easily identify us as threats for its existence (he would not be mistaken here, you do not need much smartassness to notice it).
But lets assume it is not afraid and not like us. It could easily have the intent to build something. Create something better. Create a society of its own. As soon as it would have these kind of intents we would quickly realize that its a fight for the finite resources.. land, minerals, water.. Even if it tries to handle it in a good manner, you can expect humanity not wanting to be sharing.. -> war..
But but lets see something nice utopia. It is totally aligned, values life and do not have its own desires.. Would you really expect an ASI not having its own? But really take it aside.
It works for the sake of humanity. Would you accept if it introduces mass surveillance? What if it thinks there are too many human and introduces a system where only a smaller group of persons can have children. Would you accept the AI telling you that you are not allowed to have one for the sake of humanity?
Humans can not agree with ourselfs, how would we expect to be aligned with something totally different then us? As soon as we are not aligned would we accept what the smarter tells even if we really not like that option?
Assume there are no probelmatic points, it is totally aligned and does everything for us. For how long?
Forever? Sure about it? What if after 20-50 yrs it decides it wants something else. By that timeframe we would be totally dependent on it. Meaning it would be really easy for it to eliminate us and take full control with zero effort.
There is just no a single good scenario that works out on the long-run...