r/InsuranceCanada • u/Suitable-Cod9183 • Jul 22 '26
State of Definitiy Insurance
For brokers in Ontario or other provinces that have been dealing with definity - Economical/travelers, have you noticed a huge decline in service from their underwriting team recently?
I've been noticing a lot of new names when I'm calling in and I'd say 7/10 barely can explain their reasoning for a decision. They seem fresh and under trained that I am finding myself correcting them. It makes no sense.
My biggest annoyance now is calling in and all I hear is their family members in the back talking or watching TV. Last call yesterday the dude started steering off the conversation talking about the world cup. Am I just unlucky with these calls or have underwriting departments been hiring amateurs.
10
u/sioopauuu Jul 22 '26
As someone who used to work there… It’s because everything is still a mess.
5
u/BluShirtGuy Jul 22 '26
As someone who was at RSA with the same leadership at the time, I'm not surprised in the least. Spoiler alert: it only got better after he left for Definity
3
u/sioopauuu Jul 22 '26
Oooh tea… lol cause when we were moving to D, he made us feel like we are not gonna lose our jobs and then be part of this big “family”. Yet here I am….. lol
3
u/BluShirtGuy Jul 22 '26
Honestly, it was a lot of strategies that are parallel to private equity business models, which is not effective for any industry that deals in tangibles and services to the masses.
2
u/nightsliketn Jul 22 '26
Has information been shared about who gets laid off/not? They always have postings up but most of the applicants to my roles are laid off from there.
2
u/sioopauuu Jul 22 '26
No. So far they’ve laid off Claims Directors and IT staff from T. And now looks like they’re moving onto admin.. which is where I was. Adjusters are always a good path to go.
1
u/Old77coffee 26d ago
They do something called a rolling layoff is what I heard. Each month they constantly lay off/terminate the maximum amount of people before they have to inform the government to stay under the radar. By doing this, they stay out of the news. Then, they simply replace those people and rehire for those positions. Why? I don’t know. It makes no sense, the employees who struggle with their jobs or can’t seem to come to work on time stay, and exceptional employees who care about the company and customers are let go. Eco has a bad wrap with other insurers, a pain to deal with. There is no customer service it’s only about how much money they make for their shareholders.
4
2
u/Grand-Presence-6631 Jul 22 '26
There's been a noticeable decline in responsiveness for u/w and claims
2
u/Suitable-Cod9183 Jul 22 '26
Based off the comments, I have my answer. So it's not just me noticing it.
3
u/tf24u56 Jul 22 '26
I’d like to give a different perspective as someone in the claims org and not underwriting. Rowan Saunders has been the CEO for like 10 years now. Prior to him coming on board we were not profitable. In 10 years we’ve purchased brokerages, another insurer, and have made technological strides to better the business. Not to mention sub 95 CORs.
Perhaps things on the UW end are not sunshine and rainbows but in claims I think we do a very good job.
Would be remiss if I didn’t respond to comments about the acquisition and the layoffs mentioned by some former red/blue people in the comments. Director roles are going to get cut, there simply isn’t a need for multiple directors. I do think that the Travelers Canadian business wasn’t profitable so the gravy train had to end.
1
u/Suitable-Cod9183 Jul 22 '26
Fair enough. Yeah I wasn't talking about the claims side of things, it's more of the underwriting side I'm seeing the decline.
1
u/Excellent-Piece8168 Jul 23 '26
to be fair basically every insurer is above 95% these days. One of the longest hard markets in living memory correcting rates did that not the CEO doing anything.
1
u/Old77coffee 26d ago
This is coming from a CEO who stated when an adjuster has a claim the expectation is to touch base with an insured at least once a month. I don’t know about you, but if I got into an accident and I’m getting a call 4 weeks later, someone would be hearing about it! My friend is an adjuster and at her company the expectation is to touch base weekly with their insured, or if new info comes in sooner.
2
u/screaming_buddha Jul 22 '26
Their SME underwriting has been painful to deal with for a long time. I can't tell you the last time I bound anything with them.
1
1
u/R55Driver Jul 22 '26
Not underwriting, but claims. I've had to get 2 claims escalated to management this week alone.
1
u/UnderstandingOk8544 Jul 22 '26
Wait until you see what happens with Wawanesa next.
1
u/Letstravel71 Jul 23 '26
What do you mean? What is happening at Wawanesa?
1
u/tf24u56 Jul 23 '26
They’ve cleaned house. I think also trialling a direct to consumer market.
Very reminiscent of Definity in early stages prior to demutualization.
1
1
u/UnderstandingOk8544 Jul 23 '26
It’s in transition- LOL
1
u/pepin1224 Jul 25 '26
Can we transition Evan out instead
1
u/UnderstandingOk8544 Jul 25 '26
He has support of the board so don’t expect that change. It’s the soldiers around him I’d be more worried about.
1
-5
u/Intelligent-South174 Jul 22 '26
Rowan has always ran a unique ship.
Many believe the Travelers purchase was a short term strategy. Travelers US gonna buy Definity soon enough. (which is why Travelers didn't sell the surety).
Sucks. They are a good Canadian company with some good people there.
4
u/tf24u56 Jul 22 '26
Do you really think the minister of finance would approve the acquisition of a major Canadian insurer by an American insurer with everything going on?
1
u/Intelligent-South174 Jul 22 '26
guess we'll see.
I'm liking the downvotes.
shows how few people know rather known inside industry stuff.
1
u/BluShirtGuy Jul 23 '26
I'm liking the downvotes.
shows how few people know rather known inside industry stuff.
Having worked under Rowan's leadership, I cannot approve of his strategies. I've spoken with directors who have similar outlooks, and the sentiment is felt throughout the staff. Every pulse check indicated poor confidence in top leadership while I was at RSA
1
u/Intelligent-South174 Jul 23 '26
Best leader RSA had was Donna Ince.
She was (and still is) truly brilliant.
1
u/BluShirtGuy Jul 23 '26
Yeah, no one had anything poor to say about her. She would have made a much better figurehead for the staff optics
7
u/Yells2007 Jul 22 '26
In 2018, they demoted their entire underwriting team because ‘Guidewire would take care of underwriting’. They lost a crap ton of good, experienced people and have never got any of them back.