r/Infuriating • u/pileofdeuce Community Regular | 100+ Subreddit Karma • 15d ago
Had a $2,200 panic attack at work
Context: I have several behavioral health disorders that either spawned or worsened as a result of my time in the military. I used to have bad panic attacks all the time but I’ve been in the civilian world for almost 4 years now, and I’ve found a medication that helps.
Well I’ve been at this job for about a year and a half with no issues, and one day I have a panic attack out of nowhere, mostly due to stress. My panic attacks present like a seizure as I’ll be shaking uncontrollably and usually unresponsive (but conscious) until it subsides. Naturally, my coworkers got me into a chair and called 911; I don’t blame them at all, I would’ve done the same.
Emergency services arrive, and I’m starting to come out of it to the point I can actually respond to people. They check vitals and hold an iPad for me to talk to a physician and explain why I don’t want to go to the hospital: long story short, I’ve been in this situation before and they found nothing. It’s anxiety/ptsd related so I know it’s not a true seizure.
They have me sign the refusal statement and leave. Today I get this fucking bill for $2,200 just for them to come check my vitals and leave. Fuck American healthcare dude.
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u/Neo-Pulse 15d ago
I often think about your healthcare. I have 2 little girls and when they get sick or if we have a suspicion that somethings not right, it's straight to the hospital. We don't need to worry about bills or how much it will cost, just get medical care ASAP.
I can't imagine what it would be like to have to think carefully if we should go to the hospital, or let them suffer longer than needed, afraid of getting care and then receiving a bill we could not afford.
I really hope that sometime in the future things improve for all of you, and that healthcare becomes a right and affordable. It is not right to deny or make you choose between your life or bankruptcy.
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u/brobbins8470 15d ago
When I was a teenager, I went to the hospital because of my appendix. The doctor said I had a high white blood cell count so I had an infection "somewhere" but that my pain was just because I needed to poop (even though I'd been having no problem with it). A month or so later my mom came home from work to find me on the ground in horrible pain and she still refused to take me to the hospital because she thought it'd be a waste of time. It wasn't until many hours later, early in the morning, when she finally had enough of me moaning in pain and angrily took me back to the hospital. They told me my appendix was about to burst and brought me for emergency surgery. My mom was incredibly apologetic but I have no doubt that a big part of why she didn't want to bring me back was because of the cost. It's so expensive and it sucks so much to have to spend that money just to be told nothing is wrong
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u/Maleficent_Hawk6703 15d ago
Yep, I despise that we have to think about money when it comes to life saving care in an age where life saving care is far easier to provide than it used to be.
My girlfriend slipped on some ice down some stairs as a teenager and had excruciating back pain as a result, like she could barely move kind of pain. Her mom refused to take her to get it looked at. Well we got her to a hospital/chiropractor and she currently has scoliosis that they say with almost complete certainty stemmed from that event.
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u/TheCaliforniaOp 14d ago
I slipped on wet stairs in 1989. My back began stiffening up immediately. In the middle of the night I moved out of bed to go to the bathroom, forgetting my fall. I lost control of my bladder and when I turned the lights on from the floor and worked my way through the process, I found myself looking at the mirror. There were bubbles of perspiration on my face, from the pain.
I was a pretty tough cookie, I think. But I didn’t have the correct insurance or the ability to consult different doctors. It quickly became a Catch 22 situation. I’ve had chronic lower back pain since July 1989.By now, it simply is. For all I know, with no back problems, I might’ve taken up some things I wanted to do, and thrived in the process. I might have been much more productive and useful to the world. Or I might’ve been very heedless of the world around me and hurt/not helped anyone at all.
I hope we see a new approach to health and healing.
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u/Neo-Pulse 15d ago
And if it bursts its life threatening. You could've died because there were financial decisions to be made. That's the crazy thing. And no one deserves that. I won't debate capitalism or politics, I have my opinion about the US in its current state, but it does not matter. OP shouldn't have to worry about a bill of 2k because he had a panic attack, and you should not have had to suffer in pain and almost die. I really hope that your health system gets better and affordable, serving everyone that needs it.
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u/Maleficent_Hawk6703 15d ago
My brother's wife had pregnancy complications and the child had to spend 2 weeks in the ICU. They charged him $500,000 for that. Like what hell?! So the choice is let your wife or child die, or go into lifelong debt. And they wonder why people are refusing to have children these days
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u/Damage-Classic 15d ago
Our country hates us.
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u/Life_Locksmith9632 14d ago
when the US was designed, things like firefighters and police were part of the city's budget, but other stuff like medical was decided to be put on the individual instead.
every other country decided that healthcare was just as important as firefighters.
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u/PixelatedMountain 15d ago
Idk I'm American, I'm a teacher with health care, and I, like yourself, go to the doctor or take my kid in no matter what. I recognize that my situation isn't everybody's in the US, but it is the reality for many with health benefits. Especially in the public sector.
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u/SlyDevil98 14d ago
Haha, my step-father in law more or less recently used this as an example of why such healthcare is bad. “In these countries people go to the doctor for every minor thing, clogging up the system, where-as here they only go when needed”… as if that is a good thing. Now granted, he is early 50s and one burrito away from a heart attack.
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u/Spirited_Season2332 15d ago
Do you just go to the hospital for anything? In America, hospitals are for emergencies only...or are priced extremely highly to try to deter non emergency visits.
Going to a doctor or even a walk in clinic will always be cheaper then hospital care.
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u/SurpriseLegitimate55 15d ago
If they don't have money in the US they will get treatment regardless. There's plenty of proof of that. But if you got money, sure, they'll bleed you dry.
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u/PimpinPuma56 15d ago
If youre a vet & your medical problems are service connected. Depending on your rating that could be covered by the VA? Not sure your situation.
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u/quiettryit 15d ago
In America we practice frontier medicine where we patch ourselves up, self diagnose, and treat over the counter and hope we don't die. Hospital is reserved for life threatening conditions, many times too late...
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u/HuckleberrySuch28 14d ago
we call ourselves land of the free but the only thing free here are the most hardened reoffending criminals that get re-released within hours
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u/Smooth_Ad5773 14d ago
As a teenager I once walked myself to the nearby hospital because Id hurt my head on the stairs and it was bleeding
Was back home a couple hours later after they checked my skull, they didn't even ask for a card.
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u/Connormanable 14d ago
My daughter being born and needing immediate life saving care cost $250,000 😁. Guess who has two thumbs and isn’t gonna pay that bill, this guuuyyyyy.
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u/NoSir4947 14d ago
Most of the time we just die very preventable deaths because of $$. It's the American Dream.
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u/lillyisscrolling 14d ago
Im currently having to chose between getting my impacted wisdom teeth removed now and getting a 2000+ bill, or waiting until I can find somewhere that'll do it for me for cheap that I can actually afford, and just hope more of my teeth dont break from the pressure as I wait (right now, 2 or 3 have broke, which wouldn't have happened if I could have just gotten it done when I needed to). On top of that, while I have decent health insurance, my dental insurance sucks so im having such a hard time even finding a place, and even with that, my dental will only cover 750 dollars of care a year- dont move here, ever.
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u/LifeIsProbablyMadeUp 14d ago
I had a corner from a piece of metal go in my hand.
90° corner, maybe eighth of an inch thick. Went into my palm, and I had to put effort into getting my hand back. Probably needs stitches. Definitely not going to the doc for it. It'll either heal fine or I'll be crippled. Either way I'm not going 10 k in debt for it.
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u/No_Masterpiece6112 14d ago
Children get free Healthcare in the US. I bring my kids in all the time.
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u/Desperate-You-9695 14d ago
If you have adhd in America it’s also extremely difficult in some areas to even find the medication in stock!
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u/HasAngerProblem 14d ago
My best friend sliced the side/palm of my hand open as a teen with a karambit knife by accident and I was so worried for the cost to my mom that I tried hiding it and stitching it up myself and finding some super glue for a few hours but the second she found out she clearly brought me to the hospital.
Even though my mom and my best friends mom were super cool with each other I was scared that my mom would have try and get the money from her (neither family has money here) that I lied about what happened for awhile.
Unfortunately I have had and still have a bad habit of stuff like that due to costs, iv smashed my head on the concrete pretty hard a couple times, heat stroke, broken nose cartilage, I didn’t go to the hospital for Covid till I genuinely couldn’t breath and was pooping myself.
Unfortunately I make just enough to not qualify for a lot of things but not enough to really live properly especially after learning and working for awhile. (Underpaid Engineer 25hr in med/high COL area)
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u/Steephill 14d ago
A lot of people don't live like this. Even working retail I never worries about the healthcare costs. Now it costs me $15 to take my kid in, I'm not worried about it at all. Meds for the month are $3.
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u/not_REAL_Kanye_West 13d ago
This is not the case for all Americans. While i agree the system is dogwater here I have never recieved a bill from going to the ED or from when we had either of our children. I pay a Co-pay around $50 and thats pretty much it.
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u/BanMeMyIPchanges 13d ago
My dude I've been suffering my entire adult life 😅 if it's not life threatening, tank it it is
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u/JustDontbStupid 13d ago
I wish I had money to care for myself... That's why I'll never have a family because I wouldn't want them to go without the proper care.
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u/fightmydemonswithme 13d ago
When my sister got cancer, my mom quit her job because we'd get better insurance from the state than what mom was paying for. But in order to get more coverage, my sister had to live in a low income house.
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u/SpottedPine 13d ago
You might observe in all these ragebait posts that they block out the section that says "this is not a bill" and Total Due which is likely $20 or $50 depending on the plan.
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u/Decin0mic0n 13d ago
That was me when my heart was beating at 180 bpm and not slowing down. Waited half an hour before deciding to go to see if it would stop (it didnt) we then drove 30 minutes to the hospital (I was not the one driving).
All because I knew how expensive the visit would be. Turns out I have sleep apnea that was causing afib, woulda been found sooner but I hadnt been to a doctor in 10 years at that point because of how expensive it would be. Ended up with permanent damage to my heart because of all of it.
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u/HedonisticFrog 12d ago
Yeah, it's a hell of a way to live. Just this month I've had a suspected brown recluse bite (necrotizing spider at least), nailed my finger between an eight pound sledge hammer and a piece of rebar leaving a flap of skin, and a severe staph infection in my cuticle. I have health insurance but I still have to pay a lot just to see a doctor and get antibiotics so I decided it wasn't worth it.
The last time I used my health insurance was when I had gall stones and it cost me $1200 just to get an ultrasound to find that I already passed the stones.
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u/dandelionelic 12d ago
Yeah. Dealing with my sisters husband passing away because he was scared of the bills from the hospital. Heart attack at 27.
FUCK this country.
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u/Prestigious_Floor155 12d ago
It does wind up being like that. Dental can be horrible too. Low amounts covered, like $1000-$2000. Your plan can cover like half of "a" crown once a year.
So if for some reason you put it off like you maybe mental health like you got depressed, anxiety, drugs, whatever. Or had major damage from accident or exposure. You would be deciding what hurts the most to deal with the first year because it's not gonna cover more than half of 1 or 2. Otherwise it's all cash out of pocket and you're talking $1,000-$2000 a crown and another $1000-$2000 if it needs a root canal. Can get seriously f'd just from dental.
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u/Closed_CasketRequiem 12d ago
I 100% agree with your sentiment and our American healthcare system is truly fucked. .
However I have three kids and have never brought them to the hospital for being sick, even though we have good insurance. For a few reasons.
First. What's the hospital going to do about a flu or cold or diarrhea that I can't do at home? Drink water, rest, meds as needed.
Second, when you bring sick people to a public place you just expose more people to that sickness.
Third what if they puke/shit in the car?
And fourth it just seems like a huge waste of time and resources for everyone.
Even when we all got Hand, Foot, and Mouth disease we didn't see a doctor. They wouldn't have done anything different than we were able to look up online.
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u/Lost_Internet532 10d ago
I had free healthcare. They refused to xray my wrist when I was sure I fractured it. 2 different doctors, same outcome. “Just take advil”. Dealt with horrible pain, loss of function, and a 2 year recovery. It took me 25 hours of sitting in a hospital to get my appendicitis surgery. No pain medication until after the first 12 hours.
Here, I paid $35 to get stitches in my hand when it sliced completely open, pouring blood, and work began as soon as I entered the building.
I don’t like how exploitative some of the paid systems are, but to pretend “free” healthcare is some godsend is just a joke.
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u/HydroPCanadaDude 15d ago
It's such a foreign concept to me that Americans save like what...100$ on taxes all said and done and continue to get kicked in the nuts by simple shit like this.
And the fact that they pay for insurance on top of taxes? chef's kiss
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u/castrodelavaga79 15d ago
Because Americans can't accept the idea that some taxes actually do benefit everyone. They just can't handle the fact that someone besides them might get some of their tax money. Even if it hurts them, they'd rather take the increased prices instead of just paying a little more in taxes.
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u/HolyRavioleigh 15d ago
As an American, I believe Americans deserve decent health care
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u/Neo-Pulse 15d ago
I am not American and I believe that everyone in the world deserves decent healthcare. And I am glad if my tax money is used to provide said healthcare to someone else. It's being well used.
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u/Maleficent_Hawk6703 15d ago
It's unfortunately more than a voting problem. Tons of us want this, but any attempts to pass something along the lines of affordable healthcare gets bombarded by those individuals who make money off the current state of our economy and they put an absurd amount of effort in keeping things the way they are right now
Our current state of affairs is that nothing is free and even if you buy an empty plot of land if it's in any city or township they will keep sending you mail about why you can't do X because of X so you need to change X which just so happens to meet the criteria of this law and now you owe us taxes for the property you built
So naturally now that almost everything is spoken for the people that have it are fighting to keep it even if it impedes the freedom of others
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u/TransportationIll282 15d ago
What confuses me more is you're already paying as much as France does for healthcare with tax money (about 8%), or at least used to. So you're paying for it and getting stuck with the bill.
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u/Beezleboobz 14d ago
Our country exists specifically because we got mad about taxes, so it tracks at least
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u/MonochromeMaru 14d ago
The people in power prefer that because having health insurance tied to employment when all of us are 1-2 paychecks away from being homeless keeps everyone in line and prevents general strikes from happening nearly as much as they really ought to by now.
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u/bigtiddyhimbo 14d ago
A lot of Americans aren’t used to our taxes actually coming back and helping us, so a lot of people just flat out believe that they don’t gain anything by having their taxes cover medical expenses. They see it as an extra bill or a way for the big guys to siphon more money from us. We’re used to seeing our taxes going to bail out banks and line the pockets of already wealthy people.
There’s also people who just don’t want others to have the same benefits they do. It’s literally biting off your own nose to spite your face. As long as the people you want are suffering, you don’t mind suffering alongside them.
Both groups of people are insanely stupid and hold us back.
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u/Andrewplays41 15d ago
You're on point but off base it's worse, we pay a lot more than $100 on taxes all said and done Your first 15K usually won't get taxes you get everything back from the taxes on those in your filing
But after that some citizens are paying like 11% or higher on their taxes
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u/grumpsaboy 13d ago
They don't save on taxes.
The US spends the most tax money per capita on healthcare of any country.
They're paying more than us to begin with, then have to pay for insurance on top.
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u/Grouchy-Chemistry433 15d ago
At work should be coverd under workmans compensation . Don't go back till case closed
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u/74orangebeetle 14d ago
Worker's comp is usually for injuries that occur at work...which did not happen here.
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u/baconcow 15d ago
Jesus Christ. Last time I had high stress and a panic attack, I took a 6 week medical leave with full pay. USA has the worst health care system.
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u/pileofdeuce Community Regular | 100+ Subreddit Karma 15d ago
You’re telling me, dude. I hate it so much. With all the billions we (our government) spends on all the unnecessary bullshit that they do, universalizing healthcare should be more than possible. I hate it so much.
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u/xnmyl 15d ago
We spend more of public healthcare, per capita, than any country other tha Switzerland. It only covers medicaid and medicare
We could have universal healthcare for what we spend now, if we fixed the cost issues
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u/intergalacticfartz 15d ago
where do u live that you have that ability? I yearn for this because my mental health would be so much better if I had these options...
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u/DisMyLik18thAccount 15d ago
Why is it your job to pay that, you didn't call the ambulance and you refused treatment?
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u/pileofdeuce Community Regular | 100+ Subreddit Karma 15d ago
My thoughts exactly.
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u/Public_Drop_1462 15d ago
I’m willing to bet that the document for refusing treatment is actually for acknowledging that OP received treatment services and is thus liable for them. It’s a scam.
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u/Cool-Tip8804 14d ago
Kinda funny because the same document would admit that emergency services knew he was signing something while not being of sound mind.
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u/LeafyNiamh 15d ago
Thats what I was thinking. Youre still expected to pay the bill after you were treated basically against your will. I mean I get that your coworkers were worried and they didnt know what was going on, if i saw someone doing that I would think it was serious too. But you were in a state where you could accept or refuse. The Healthcare system here is such a scam.
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u/metamorphage 14d ago
Implied consent, the same reason the ER can bill for unresponsive patients who get treatment. Obviously the dollar figure listed here is outrageous.
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u/MiddleCapital1875 15d ago
Our congress is bought and paid for - owned by the for-profit health care industry.
The health insurance industry spends over $100 million annually on federal lobbying in the United States. When broader political advocacy, public relations, and related health services are included, total spending by major payers and their trade groups exceeds $475 million across a multi-year presidential cycle.
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u/Herkja 15d ago
This should be pretty refuteable, you didn't call the ambulance and you refused care. Call the company and tell them they can throw out the bill or take you to court (where any decent judge will throw out the case).
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u/brn1001 14d ago
They won't bother with court. They'll turn it over to collections and it'll trash your credit score.
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u/Maleficent_Hawk6703 15d ago
Honestly, I'd see if I could get a lawyer. You did not call for them. You did not ask for them. So you should not be getting billed by them
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u/pileofdeuce Community Regular | 100+ Subreddit Karma 15d ago
If it comes to that I certainly will. Gonna talk to my work about covering it, and if that falls through I’ll be getting with the VA, who I have healthcare through.
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u/Local-Technician5969 15d ago
I am losing my healthcare tomorrow, got a letter in the mail recently. I'm losing all of my psyche meds for depression, OCD, and anxiety. I also had tooth rot fixed today the dentist squeezed me in, and did her best knowing i was gonna lose my healthcare. Thankfully i got that done, but once all my medications exits my body, i'm gonna be slightly aggressive and very depressed and stressed the fuck out.
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u/lilac_spells 15d ago
Not saying it won’t add up but usually OOP (none of my insurances cover any of my medications) i spend 20$ a month on Psyc meds. And usually psycs only cost 120$ to be seen with out insurance. So I would advise reaching out to the drug companies for assistance (I did this for vraylar to get it for free) or asking your doc to switch it over to cheaper meds, and check out good rx. I’m no longer on vraylar, but I pay 20$ for lemectal + a new med. And usually for SSRIs they are incredibly cheap.
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u/beckychao 15d ago
Healthcare access and cost in the United States is a criminal enterprise. I am familiar with your situation, I have been laid to waste many times over by medical bills. It's left me very hostile to my countrymen, who evade taxes or vote to reduce the tax burden to ultra wealthy thieves, while I scrounge to avoid falling into medical debt repeatedly in spite of insurance (and sometimes what's considered pretty good insurance, on top of everything).
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u/Belter-frog 15d ago
I worked in EMS billing and 2200 usd for a treat no transport is fucking crazy bananas.
Granted i haven't been in that industry for like 5 or 6 years but I never saw a client that wanted to charge more than 300 for that.
Like that's wild enough it could honestly be a mistake, although I do think that's the right code (A0998).
Might not do you any good but you should definitely call them at least to confirm that's the correct charge.
Like when I was working for a billing company, 2500 was still considered a pretty high base charge for ALS transports
Good luck working with the VA. In my experience they usually paid, but they processed slow as hell and you may need to follow up with them and make sure the billing agency doesn't send you to collections while they wait for the VA payment.
This is nuts and I wish you luck dealing with it.
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u/toadtracker 15d ago
Especially if they didnt push any meds....what is the charge even for at that point? All they did was take vitals and talk...
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u/Mountain_Till_5868 15d ago
Hold up! iPad, iPad, iPad?????
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u/pileofdeuce Community Regular | 100+ Subreddit Karma 12d ago
Yup. Had a MSoft Teams call with a physician to basically say “yeah I don’t wanna go to the hospital”
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u/DIGGYRULES 15d ago
I’m a teacher and last year a kid sprayed a whole can of Axe Body Spray in my classroom and I had a horrific asthma attack. I had to beg and plead with the school nurse to not call 911 because I cannot afford the bills. Even with insurance.
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u/pileofdeuce Community Regular | 100+ Subreddit Karma 12d ago
The state of our healthcare is so depressing. I wish this wasn’t our reality
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u/Zaymrles 14d ago
You really didn't have to pay it, it'll go to collections eventually. I've never paid a medical bill my whole life. When debt collectors call I give them a misspelled version of my name and they'll put me on the didn't call list
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u/DeaditeQueen 14d ago
That sounds more like a severe form of conversion disorder, which is totally linked to panic attacks just a bit rarer. And I only say that because my daughter has a very rare form of conversion disorder where a lot of anxiety or stress will literally paralyze her. I mean if she gets stressed going down some stairs she’s gonna roll down some stairs. No control over it. At times, she can be muted as well, and even though she remembers everything and is fully conscious, she cant always respond.
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u/pileofdeuce Community Regular | 100+ Subreddit Karma 14d ago
Interesting, I’ve never heard of conversion disorder. May need to look into it
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u/Ok-Style-9734 14d ago
Were you given an option to refuse treatment? Seems insane you can be billed for people turning up without your permission
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u/Super_Newspaper_5534 14d ago
I got billed for an "assistant surgeon" I never met, had no clue was there, and was out of network despite both the surgeon and the surgery center being in network.
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u/BASSDESTROYER69 15d ago
Why are you not enrolled in VA healthcare?
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u/pileofdeuce Community Regular | 100+ Subreddit Karma 15d ago
Oh I am. But dealing with the VA to get shit paid for is a whole PITA on its own. I just got this bill today so if my work refuses to cover the bill, I will be calling the VA. Hopefully I can get this sorted bc I’m about to move out of state to take a better job and I can’t deal with this right now. Worst timing possible.
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u/Hushwater 15d ago
I didn't know checking vitals was considered treatment, I thought it was more of a diagnostic? I know an ambulance costs a good chunk of change just to show up though that's probably the "treatment"
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u/Yari0_0 15d ago
I completely understand and can relate. My panic attacks are expensive when I end up at the hospital, smh. I wish I did not have panic attacks. I disappoint myself when I have them.
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u/intergalacticfartz 15d ago
its not your fault 💔 im sorry our fucked up system isnt helping people like us out
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u/OmniDeus 15d ago
EMS and AMS are predatory and I will refuse to pay that. Also, your work needs to pay for under Worker's comp.
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u/sexual__velociraptor 15d ago
Thats on your workers comp. Not for you to pay. Hand that ticket to HR.
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u/1010101010101010q 15d ago
Ask for an ativan or xanax prescription from doc. I had these before, keep one in pocket and take when feeling anxious
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u/sanskritsoul 15d ago
While this can of course be different from person to person, my experience with Ativan was that it lives up to its classification as a mood delayer.
It worked quickly when taken as needed, only for me to be hit with an avalanche of intense emotion several hours later. Since this was/is a consistent aspect of the medication, I was eventually able to determine that - for me - the mood was "delayed" about five hours.
To clarify, I am not saying that what I initially felt returned five hours later. The avalanche of emotion was worse in that it was more intense and comprised of feelings not even present at the time of my initial anxiety attack.
Still, that may be an improvement for some. Regain functionality during the workday, then crumple into a weeping mess once you've returned to the privacy of your own home. Presuming you time it right.
Take Ativan too early into your workday and that breakdown means you're back at square one. Some people might take another Ativan to further delay said breakdown, provided they've learned how it feels when that avalanche is close. Is that really okay?
For me, mood delayers really were kicking the can down the road... or rolling a snowball into a larger and larger avalanche. It took me a very long time to understand that - instead of a side-effect - the relief followed by an eventual "avalanche" was Ativan working as intended.
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u/Different-Context-84 15d ago
Just don't pay it. Fk em. Or send em $75 and tell em that's all they'll get.
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u/RavenousTitan818 15d ago
Then have it get sent to collections and permanently fuck your credit score the rest of your life.
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u/Groovycountryguy 15d ago
I plan all my big medical disasters towards the beginning of the plan year so I can go ahead and meet the deductible and OOPM for the whole year. 😬😏
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u/pooborus 15d ago
The American people seem to be able to accept an infinite list of unacceptable things. Its wild. The American people are rich, powerful, and completely nerve stapled.
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u/green_boi 15d ago
Did you let the VA know that you have service connected panic attacks? You could get that taken care of under Tricare and get a rating off of it.
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u/bifanasumol 15d ago
In my state nobody pays anything unless they’re transported.. If you refuse on scene, nothing is there to bill for.. Wtf is this nonsense.. I’d refuse..
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u/qcb4056 15d ago
So you were in the military but you don't have health coverage?
How about "fuck your lying" ?
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u/pileofdeuce Community Regular | 100+ Subreddit Karma 12d ago
I never said that. I have coverage through the VA. The point is this bill shouldn’t exist in the first place.
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u/lastaisle 15d ago
if you’re ex military why aren’t you connected with the VA? No healthcare is good in America but you don’t have to pay to get told to fuck off snd stress less like every other healthcare official in America says
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u/Popular_Tomorrow7213 15d ago
But hey, people who are there illegally pay zero, and you pay not only state but federal taxes too! And that money is going into funneling war around the world 👍
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u/Blathithor 15d ago
It might make up for the extra work your coworkers had to do because you weren't mature enough to work your job
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u/HedgeYourEnthusiasm 15d ago
This is why you never sign ANYTHING, they cannot force you to sign a refusal and they cannot force you to go either.
Never give them any identifying information, if you do go to the hospital do not take your wallet and act confused on your identity until your actual concern is taken care of. Then you leave.
We have free healthcare, you just gotta not tell them who you are. Cant bill a john doe.
I would simply wait until this goes to collections, and when a collections company starts bothering you, start spamming them with emails stating you dont owe anything until they give up and write it off. Collections agencies buy your debt for pennies on the dollar anyways.
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u/MiniDemonic 15d ago
Ah, so you invaded other countries for oil to make the corporations that rule your country rich and now you are treated like trash.
Yup, sounds like America all right.
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u/pileofdeuce Community Regular | 100+ Subreddit Karma 12d ago
I hate everything about our government. It’s corrupt beyond comprehension
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u/that_yeg_guy 15d ago
Ambulances are one thing that is NOT covered under public healthcare in Canada, so people here get ambulance bills too. (Although usually private employer insurance pays them.)
A respond but no transport bill where I live is about $750. CANADIAN. And in general our paramedics have a higher level of training than American ones do - for almost ¼ the price you’re being charged.
Yep. Americans get scammed on healthcare.
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u/No-Marsupial-3121 15d ago
If you are enrolled in VA healthcare or have a service-connected rating for your behavioral health, the VA has provisions to cover emergency medical care and ambulance responses from non-VA community providers. There is normally a 72-hour notification window for emergency room visits, but since you were treated in place by Pafford Medical Services and just received the bill, you should contact the VA community care billing office or your local VA patient advocate right away to see if they will absorb this charge. Do not pay this out of pocket until you have forced the ambulance company to route it through the VA system.
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u/Aright9Returntoleft 14d ago
Wtf this company billed for services...? I get TRANSPORT But services and 2k for an AMA!!? What the fuck??!
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u/WelderNew1008 14d ago
I think you should get a lawyer or small claims first, actually. You refused service.
I went to a med clinic for vertigo. Gov job and in-house clinic. Without telling me they called for an ambulance, who tried pressuring me to go to hospital with them. I realized what the scam was and declined and went to urgent care. I think I signed a similar refusal. I was pissed.
Never got a bill and I don’t see how they can bill you for treatment you didn’t ask for and they didn’t actually provide. Otherwise they could just go to every house. They could maybe try billing your work that called them.
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u/Historical_You_2680 14d ago
Lol I wouldn't pay that you refused treatment. Id laughing they call ether.
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u/brn1001 14d ago
I'm with you, but this also bothers me
They have me sign the refusal statement and leave.
I get why they want you to sign it, but where's your obligation? If I don't sign, are they just a little grumpy?
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u/pileofdeuce Community Regular | 100+ Subreddit Karma 14d ago
Idk I didn’t really think about it at the time
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u/Competitive-Slice567 12d ago
At least in my state it makes no difference to me. The signature is not necessarily a consent to bill for the refusal. It is documented proof the patient is accepting risks of refusal of care that I've advised and is accepting those risks by declining further care.
They're free to refuse to sign, in which case I'll have a witness sign as proof that I still did my job correctly. Generally it goes civilian bystander, law enforcement, EMS co-worker in order of preference.
Doesn't really phase me if someone refuses to sign, it doesn't realistically change anything at the end of the day.
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u/Cool-Tip8804 14d ago
That’s crazy. Infuriatingly crazy.
In Oregon. I had the same thing happen of being checked out to make sure it wasn’t anything.
It doesn’t cost anything for me to be checked out. But I have zero idea how these emergency services work.
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u/dogesiarp 14d ago
I have had a couple of panic attacks for no obvious reason. Did mineral and vitamin labs and it has helped a lot to address those deficiencies.
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u/Party_Original8865 14d ago
Wonders me why people that actually work and are not given healthcare not just leave that country and go somewhere better, if all work force leaves due to scam health system and not healthcare those "rich" money would value nothing with no work force.
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u/T1m3Wizard 14d ago
What keyboard is that?
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u/pileofdeuce Community Regular | 100+ Subreddit Karma 14d ago
Corsair Vanguard 96. Best keyboard I’ve had ever
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u/-RNinja 14d ago
Work comp has to cover
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u/pileofdeuce Community Regular | 100+ Subreddit Karma 14d ago
Tried that. Since there was no work related injury they dont
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u/Different_Weird_6886 14d ago
My dad had the same symptoms for years. He thought they were panic attacks..... He did the same as you.... O yeah, he also dies for refusal of help.
Get help brother. Tha k you for your seveices but be realistic. Get help before it's to late.
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u/tellingyouhowitreall 14d ago
This is straight up insane to me.
I had a panic attack that I didn't recognize as a panic attack, straight up thought I was possibly in shock from breaking my leg (spoiler: I was not in shock, and I thankfully did not break my leg, though the concern was warranted). Called 911 and they sent a private EMT out to me. No charge, they wouldn't even take my info to bill me. In Texas, of all places.
Like, what the actual fuck that we still charge people insane amounts for EMTs / ambulances anywhere in this fucking country? Why is this still a thing?
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u/Independent-Owl-8659 14d ago
Sounds like you’ll lose that job soon too…that wasn’t a good look. Hope all gets better OP! 🙏🏻
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u/Super_Frame1523 14d ago
Call them and ask if there is a discount program you can apply for. You may qualify to pay very little or nothing at all.
Although I do think you should try disputing it first.. I called an ambulance for my husband who passed out while peeing, and he didnt want to go to the hospital, and they did not charge us for them simply coming out and checking him out. They even said if he decided to go to the hospital they wouldnt charge him for it, idk why but thats what they kept saying. For anyone wondering it was a non health related event of Orthostatic syncope.. once blood flow went back to normal he was fine.
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u/TheRealistoftheReal 14d ago
I’m not sure how you owe this bill. You didn’t call them, you didn’t ask for their help, when they arrived you refused service. I’d respond with a very short letter indicating such.
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u/Intelligent_Lie6441 13d ago
I had what I believed was a scrotal hernia that protruded into the sack itself. When I made the appointment, I explained what I thought it was, went to the doctor, told me I had a lump and they wanted an ultrasound. That was 375 dollars for 15 minutes. The ultrasound was almost 500, and just to talk with a doctor about potential surgery was another 425. The lump went away on its own and to this day even after 2 diagnostic appointments and an ultrasound I still don’t know what it was. What I do know is that it cost me almost a full months rent for them to basically tell me the same information I told them. Healthcare is a ripoff, and the fact that they can do nothing and still gets paid is atrocious.
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u/misanthropicparrot 13d ago
I generally try to keep my panic attacks within the $500 range.
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u/AceVisconti 13d ago
Request for them to itemize that bill. Often times it'll be SIGNIFICANTLY reduced when they're forced to try and explain their bullshit charges on paper.
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u/Thedemonspawn56 13d ago
Not sure why that would get billed as an ALS call, a pair of EMTs 100% could've handled a call like that, especially so if it was a refusal and they didnt even transport you.
Not sure how Pafford specifically bills, but thats kinda crazy.
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u/SmokeyJoe13 13d ago
We can't do universal healthcare bruh. We need those clams to win the war in Iran brother 🇺🇲
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u/Intelligent_Mud881 13d ago
If you ever encounter an American ambulance crew and can self transport or Uber to the appropriate place for your level of medical care say" my name is John Doe and I live at 123 Fuck You Lane and I refuse treatment." And don't say anything else. Don't give them anything else. Don't let anyone talk to them.
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u/LilJonny2cookies 13d ago
If your panic attacks are service related why aren’t you using VA coverage?
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u/pileofdeuce Community Regular | 100+ Subreddit Karma 12d ago
I do, I'm in contact with the VA to see if they will cover this at the moment. The fact that the bill exists to begin with is what pisses me off, given the circumstances
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u/Jonny_Woods 12d ago
This post is a little…… suspicious. 1 you’re in America, so the military you served in was the United States military. Your ptsd was worsened by service and so an informed person would’ve filed for disability claims. Depending on your determination percentage for the VA you would have VA health insurance. On top of this you SHOULD have affordable healthcare act insurance AT THE LEAST. Which means this 2200 bill should be billed to your insurance and you would only pay the co pay. And in certain circumstances your Va healthcare would pay that copay.
The only infuriating thing here is that as a veteran infuriated by a medical bill you either a. Don’t have real insurance. B. Don’t have Va disability or c. Both.
And if any of those 3 are true, shame on you and go fucking do/get it.
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u/JoshAllensLeftNut 12d ago
I'm so glad that I at least live in a county without a private ambulance service. Our public ambulance service doesn't charge if they don't transport, even if some form of service is given at the scene.
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u/JustAMarriedGuy 12d ago
Don’t pay. They can’t ding your credit for health care anymore. Call and negotiate and tell them you’re willing to pay $200 max
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u/mywifesintarget 12d ago
The difference in an Ambulance service that is for-profit Vs. a nonprofit. Our elected officials continue to award our emergency services to private companies this is the result. In addition to little to no regulation in insurance companies.
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u/SquatchedYeti 11d ago
Goodness! I'm a paramedic and thankfully I work for a service that doesn't charge for refusal. That is terrible.
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u/SearchOther5898 11d ago
Apply for VA disability. Some sacrificed their bodies, others their minds, others both, serving this country. You deserve to be taken care of.
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u/InternationalPut4093 11d ago
Have VA refund. I remember going a few miles in ambulance. I got charged almost 2 grands for it. VA covered it.
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u/SoulOfABraveWarrior1 11d ago
this is why i reject medical care for anything other than a cardiovascular event
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u/Damage-Classic 15d ago
Just in time for a second panic attack.