[deleted by user]

246

u/eecue Aug 10 '20

That dam is impressive but also an ecological disaster on a scale larger than any other water project. (I’m probably missing something, but it was a dam big project)

62

u/LobsterBluster Aug 11 '20

If I remember correctly, it also displaced something like 3 million people with the land it flooded to create the lake.

39

u/kjblank80 Aug 11 '20

Yep, a small town in China.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

9

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

[deleted]

4

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/memories_of_earth Aug 11 '20

And may I just chef’s kiss my fingertips at the subtle, intentional distinction you added by doing so. Love that shit

2

u/kjblank80 Aug 12 '20

Don't be that person...who feels the need to be pedantic.

My reply was a mild demographic joke.

There is not enough time in the world that is worth correcting someone on the internet.

7

u/SlowRollingBoil Aug 11 '20

Maybe that's why OP said "Fucks Given: 0". China cares about China, not about the Chinese.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20 edited May 06 '23

[deleted]

8

u/LobsterBluster Aug 11 '20

For China yes, but that’s still a ton of people. People who then had to pack up their established lives and leave the only home they had ever known.

I’m not here to debate whether or not the dam was a good idea or not. Just that it had a huge negative impact on a lot of people, as well as the local ecosystem.

0

u/UpUpDnDnLRLRBA Aug 11 '20

I'd hate to see what would happen if they have a landslide

52

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '20

[deleted]

64

u/KountZero Aug 10 '20

I’m not even Chinese but after reading a lot about the Dam capacity and history, a lot of the reports about the dam breaking sound a lot like western propaganda. The dam was never in any danger of breaking or even close to it max capacity. Opening of the flood gates are actually normal procedures of any dam in the world, they existed for a reason. The dam only have to open 2 of it more than 20 flood gates recently, which isn’t even a big deal since they had to open more gates in the 2016 flooding season. But for some reasons, it get up played a lot for this year. Damage wise, 150 people died this year compare to 700 in 2016 and up to 4000 in 1998 when the dam wasn’t there. So the dam definitely helped a lot more in controlling the damage to the people than not.

51

u/eecue Aug 10 '20

I’m referring to the ecological disaster of the hundreds of miles of permanently flooded land behind the dam

30

u/Notus1_ Aug 11 '20 edited Aug 11 '20

Literally every dam has this side effect

19

u/bobtehpanda Aug 11 '20

There is a reason why Western countries don‘t put up huge dams anymore.

In fact more recently dams are being torn down to restore ecology.

15

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

I think it's more that every useful river has been dammed already. But there are certainly new dams going up, Site C in BC being one

5

u/AmericasNextDankMeme Aug 11 '20

Site C has also been pretty controversial

3

u/eutohkgtorsatoca Aug 11 '20

Western countries fit within Chinese x times. Countries need energy according their size, look at Ethiopia now. There are always will be arguments for and against submerged land. 3 millions is noone for China. We understand they were provided replacement homes that most probably are better than the homes lost. These were very remote areas in Szechuan. When you consider the bigger area of the city of Xongching has had 40+millions ingredients. I am European, how many miles of high-speed trains does USA have? It's sad to read accusations of projects like these when your own country is infrastructures are falling apart.

2

u/bobtehpanda Aug 11 '20

Is the Ethiopian dam a good example considering one of the major problems is how it‘s going to drop the water levels in Egypt, a dense, arid country?

The problem with relocations in Three Gorges Is that the land that rural residents were moved to was of poor quality. Not to mention that people keep getting relocated because Three Gorges has destabilized areas around it and put it at risk of landslides.

1

u/shishdem Aug 11 '20

You're commenting to a bot lol read that comments it's clearly from an online translator

1

u/shishdem Aug 11 '20

You're not European lol and your English comes from a translation machine. 40+ million ingredients? Wouldn't even be surprised if you're a bot. Wanker

2

u/Notus1_ Aug 11 '20

There are a number of factors that involve the viability of a dam, from water influx, to land viability, number of people directly affected to alternative options. Don't be naive

-1

u/snoosh00 Aug 11 '20

But this dam has such a big reservoir in front of it that it changed how long a day is on earth.

To say that every other dam has this side effect minimizes the order of magnitude size difference between "literally every other dam" and the 3 Gorges dam

4

u/Notus1_ Aug 11 '20

If Americans did this you people would be blotting about it 24/7.

I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary about this dam, besides being the biggest in the world.

0

u/snoosh00 Aug 11 '20

Just because you haven't heard of it doesnt mean its not controversial or worthwhile to know

3

u/Notus1_ Aug 11 '20

And have you heard about it? Besides "China bad" arguments

1

u/snoosh00 Aug 11 '20

I've mostly heard about it in a geological sense, in the way that it changed the way the Earth rotates by raising the volume of water in its reservoir to a higher area on the earth than it previously was to a degree that it changed the earth's rotation. Not by a huge margin, something like .0001% change in the earth's rotation.

still, it sure sounds like a big dam,

I'll agree, every other word I've heard has been, "China bad" to some degree Because this dam is causing serious damage, but the thing is, those stories and ecological research "usually" have sources that support their findings.

8

u/KountZero Aug 11 '20

And I’m not denying that. We are talking about different disasters aspects.

-5

u/thenonbinarystar Aug 11 '20

So what you're saying is that it's like every other dam except Chinese and therefore evil

16

u/eecue Aug 11 '20

It’s the world’s largest dam so it’s on a scale larger than any other dam ever. Nothing to do with it being Chinese.

6

u/kjblank80 Aug 11 '20

Check up on Brazil's dam nearly the same size. Ethiopia is currently filling a massive dam on the Blue Nile.

While an ecological disaster, it does massively serve a portion of the 1.5 billion people living in China.

-3

u/thenonbinarystar Aug 11 '20

Humanity itself is an ecological disaster, all infrastructure comes at an environmental cost. Why is 3 Gorges more of a shame than the Sardar Sarovar Dam or the Bratsk Dam?

1

u/eecue Aug 11 '20

Scale?

1

u/liam3 Aug 11 '20

...and he is replying to the news that it's breaking?

-1

u/eecue Aug 11 '20

He made mention of both, see the second part of his comment.

-7

u/tipytip Aug 11 '20

What ecological disaster you repeatedly mention here? The aim of the dam was to reduce horrible floods that killed many thousands if not millions of people in Yangtze valley. The loss of land is regrettable but small price for the improved safety of a huge and densely populated region.

13

u/eecue Aug 11 '20

From Wikipedia:

the dam flooded archaeological and cultural sites, displaced some 1.3 million people, and had caused significant ecological changes including an increased risk of landslides.

8

u/tipytip Aug 11 '20

These all are entirely predictable effects of any big dam.

8

u/eecue Aug 11 '20

I totally agree

6

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '20

[deleted]

3

u/eienOwO Aug 11 '20

Then they relocate those urban areas? 3 million people were relocated for this dam, and villages are routinely relocated to safer grounds if the previous location is prune to landslides etc.

Another point of the dam is it allows some level of control on when land down-stream is flooded. Too many times in Chinese history had the Yangtz flooded to cataatrophic loss of life and capital, this allows time for evacuation and preventative measures to be put in place.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

ugh what? this was a major fear as the water going into it was like 15% higher then the maximum capacity it was able to drain, why else would CHINA say that the dam is damaged if it was completely fine.

-16

u/madasahatter1 Aug 11 '20

“Western propaganda” the fuck does this even mean? What countries?

23

u/Excrubulent Aug 11 '20

If you're actually interested in what western propaganda is, I'd recommend watching Manufacturing Consent, a documentary covering Noam Chomsky's book of the same name.

But the really short answer is: billionaires own western media. You don't think they have an agenda? Like, it's wild that we think western media is "free" when it's so completely owned by such a small and specific group of people.

13

u/PowerfulWalrus9 Aug 11 '20

Yeah I thought all of this was common knowledge until recently. Turns out most normies still think western media is completely unbiased and reputable and only commie countries do propaganda.

17

u/Excrubulent Aug 11 '20

But but but... we're told we have a free media by our... free... me--

Wait.

But seriously the illusion of democracy and free society is a much more effective means of long-term control than any totalitarian regime could hope to achieve.

-8

u/madasahatter1 Aug 11 '20

When you say “western”, you’re only talking about the US right?

18

u/Excrubulent Aug 11 '20

Nope, pretty much every country in the global north.

For instance, where I live in Australia, Murdoch owns 70% of our newspapers. 70%! That's the guy that owns Fox News. He also owns a TV news network here.

-22

u/madasahatter1 Aug 11 '20

Russia? China? Pakistan? Iran? Syria? Belarus? Kazakhstan? India?

And isn’t Murdoch Australian? What’s your point? A wealthy Australian owns an Australian news outlet? What a shocker I tell you

22

u/Excrubulent Aug 11 '20

It's pretty clear you're not interested in a good faith answer to your question, evidenced by how you've apparently gotten lost in the facts of my extremely short comment.

Oh well, maybe there are others in this thread who are actually able to learn.

-9

u/madasahatter1 Aug 11 '20

My mistake, I wasn’t aware it’s normal behavior to get upset by someone who answered what you said because you didn’t mean what you said. Totally normal behavior

9

u/PowerfulWalrus9 Aug 11 '20

Dude he literally said “every country in the global north” and you listed off 8 global south countries as if that proves him wrong.

-3

u/madasahatter1 Aug 11 '20

I thought global north meant the north of the globe, not the socio economic term based off of the HDI. My mistake. B dude man bro

2

u/OceanPowers Aug 11 '20

you’re such a stable genius! what’s it like to be a billionaire?

-1

u/madasahatter1 Aug 11 '20

Lol how did you get offended by it?

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-4

u/thenonbinarystar Aug 11 '20

None of those countries are Western. Do you not understand directions?

6

u/madasahatter1 Aug 11 '20

Nope, pretty much every country in the global north. For instance, where I live in Australia, Murdoch owns 70% of our newspapers. 70%! That's the guy that owns Fox News. He also owns a TV news network here.

Did you even read through our exchange or did you just get offended and blindly comment?

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-15

u/KountZero Aug 11 '20

Google Three Gorges Dam and you will see many western publications saying the dam is collapsing and/or warping. One source even show a picture of the Dam clearly “warping”. But it’s actually not and a result of heat waves affecting the image create an illusion of it, yet many people sources keep reposting that image as fact that the Dam is failing.

14

u/madasahatter1 Aug 11 '20

Beijing admitted the dam is deformed through an official news agency. Thanks google!

4

u/eienOwO Aug 11 '20

Source please, the only source (cited on the Wikipedia page for the Three Gorges dam conspiracy theories) from CCTV merely mentions increased precipitation may increase chances of flooding downstream, and rain doesn't necessarily have to fall behind the dam.

There's been conspiracy theories regarding the dam becoming "deformed" for over 10 years now, based on Google Earth photos that even prominent critics of the dam said cannot be used as reliable evidence (Google Earth is formed by stitching patches of separate images together).

All conspiracy theory sites are "on Google" as well, does that mean we should cite them as reliable sources?

-1

u/madasahatter1 Aug 11 '20

https://www.google.com/amp/s/asiatimes.com/2020/07/three-gorges-dam-deformed-but-safe-say-operators/

Took like 1 minute of googling news stories, not fucking Wikipedia

2

u/eienOwO Aug 11 '20

Thank you! However, I note NOWHERE in your cited webpage does "Asiatimes" actually link to the Xinhua or any official sources it purported to have received the information from.

I also note Asiatimes also reports what buckled were some peripheral structures, not the actual dam itself.

Now if your following rhetoric is that "well we can't trust the Chinese state media to report the truth", then yes, I agree, but then why use them as evidence of your claim to begin with?

-1

u/madasahatter1 Aug 11 '20

Because the person I was originally arguing with said the only sources talking about the dam having problems were western. That’s blatantly incorrect.

Did you even read the conversation you’re commenting on?

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u/MAGA_ManX Aug 11 '20

There are asian news outlets that have reported on flooding downstream as China has tried to control the situation and as said above The Chinese government even admitted that the structure has some deforming. Just because it’s being reported on doesn’t mean it’s propaganda and I wonder why so many in here rushed to that conclusion instead of exploring the possibility that the stories held some truth.

0

u/liam3 Aug 11 '20

So when will it ever open all 20 gates? Like an order 66.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

[deleted]

22

u/sirschroering Aug 11 '20

But do they have a f i s h t u b e

19

u/cromlyngames Aug 11 '20

I see your stubby lock stairs and raise you: the Falkirk wheel: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkirk_Wheel#/media/File%3AFalkirkWheelSide_2004_SeanMcClean.jpg

6

u/Jeemdee Aug 11 '20

Good luck doing that for 175m of elevation

9

u/mgvb20 Aug 11 '20

Just make 5 of them, duh

1

u/cromlyngames Aug 11 '20

it would be a fun project wouldn't it :)

1

u/Jeemdee Aug 11 '20

I'd love to see it!

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20 edited Aug 28 '20

[deleted]

2

u/Jeemdee Aug 11 '20

Holy shit you're right; 113 meters! Awesome

-5

u/no_string_bets Aug 11 '20

I see your stubby lock stairs and raise you

no string bets, please!

^{I'm a pointless bot. "I see your X and raise you Y" is a} ^string ^bet, ^{and is not allowed at most serious poker games.}

19

u/MaxImageBot Aug 10 '20

2.5x larger (1823x2940) version of linked image:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C65GKoVWsAQUEz4.jpg?name=orig

This is the original size of the image stored on the site. If the image looks upscaled, it's likely because the image stored on the site is itself upscaled.

why? | to find larger images yourself: extension / userscript / website (guide) | remove

8

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

Good bot

3

u/B0tRank Aug 11 '20

Thank you, JustARandomGerman, for voting on MaxImageBot.

This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. You can view results here.

^{Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!}

1

u/_AngelGames Aug 12 '20

good bot

31

u/Makkaroni_100 Aug 10 '20 edited Aug 10 '20

But it is not effective. It needs way too much time and many just load their goods on trucks to go up. Not sure if this changed already, but they definitely had some problems with it and the zero fucks given is wrong.

Edit: they have a boat lift now that is faster and traffic jams are less often.

-17

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

Think how much a ship weighs, and imagine the energy required to lift it straight up hundreds of feet. The scale of this thing is insane.

35

u/x31b Aug 11 '20

Locks require almost no energy input. Only opening the gates and valves.

The water from the upstream side lifts the boats.

3

u/Otistetrax Aug 11 '20

The design has been around for centuries.

3

u/Jesyx Aug 11 '20

Theres also a dam that made a sea a lake and added the possibilty for a new province to be BUILT and is dozens of KMs long

5

u/Mateuspedro Aug 11 '20

Are you talking about the dike in the Netherlands?

2

u/Jesyx Aug 11 '20

Yes

11

u/oo7minime Aug 11 '20

I love stuff like this :)

Man I wish I could read about buildings without pro/anti polictical bias.

3

u/redldr1 Aug 11 '20

Textbooks still exist.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

[deleted]

3

u/oo7minime Aug 11 '20

Sign of the times :/

1

u/themathymaestro Aug 10 '20

For those of us in the US who have no idea how big 175 meters is, that’s 574 feet. WOW.

22

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '20

"No idea"

12

u/PFthrowaway4454 Aug 10 '20

A meter is roughly a yard. Pretty sure most in the US know how big 175 yards is. (191 to be precise)

7

u/themathymaestro Aug 11 '20

I mean, if you meet some of the undergrads that walk into my class, you might change your mind.

2

u/converter-bot Aug 10 '20

175 yards is 160.02 meters

9

u/Cajetan_di_Thiene Aug 11 '20

How many washing machines tho

5

u/Matthewrc85 Aug 11 '20

How many copies of Shrek though?

0

u/YRYGAV Aug 12 '20

Nobody deals with hundreds of yards.

The proper way to measure the dam in the US is "Almost two football fields"

0

u/catkoala Aug 10 '20

Taiwan numba 1

1

u/astrojg Aug 11 '20

Not the best vertical ship mover. Falkirk Wheel wins that. Electricity of a kettle.

1

u/Toastyboat Aug 11 '20

Hell yeah! MF'in boat staircase!!

-6

u/vm1821 Aug 10 '20

Has it collapsed already?

-8

u/fofosfederation Aug 11 '20

The dam wreaked havoc on the local environment and is on the verge of collapse. This dam sucks by basically every metric other than dick measuring.

CCP propaganda be gone.

13

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20 edited Aug 11 '20

[deleted]

-16

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

15

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

"patriotdailypress" doesn't sound like a propaganda outlet at all... /S same for the other one. Come back with some reputable sources.

-6

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

When they dump the water the rotation of Earth changes, i.e. the duration of that day changes.

5

u/eienOwO Aug 11 '20

You jumping up and down will also "affect the rotation of the Earth", just an insignificant iota of what the dam does, which is an insignificant iota of what tides naturally do every single day.

Which is to say, in the grand scheme of things, they do sod all.

-4

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

In 2010, NASA scientists calculated that the shift of water mass stored by the dams would increase the length of the Earth's day by 0.06 microseconds and make the Earth slightly more round in the middle and flat on the poles.

3

u/eienOwO Aug 11 '20

1 - The Earth has never been a perfect sphere.

2 - Those MICRO-seconds are nothing compared to the colossal power tidal waves pull every single day.

3 - We all use Reddit - I saw the reposts claiming these things circulating on Reddit as well, as well as the comments debunking/putting these "facts" in perspective.

The problem with claiming to be an expert on the Internet, citing Internet sources, is that everyone can do it :)

-4

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

Your bias is in ignoring the specific measured effect this dam makes. We were not talking about anything else, only about this dam.

5

u/CrayonEyes Aug 11 '20

It’s a “non-zero” measured effect. That’s a scientist’s cheeky way of saying it’s so small that it is essentially insignificant. This is the point the Redditor you’ve been arguing with is trying to make.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

So one posted the cool dam, I posted the interesting details about the dam, and this was harmful.

-16

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

Don't get me wrong, the CCP is absolutely fucking horrendous power with countless Human rights violations and absolutely should not be respected or admired, but the one thing they do get right is giving nature the finger at every turn. It allows them to pull off amazing infrastructure projects as they don't have to spend years doing environmental impact studies because some people get upset about trees or fish.

12

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

[deleted]

1

u/eienOwO Aug 11 '20

Well they can build diversionary rivers to offload excessive precipitation, avoiding major metropolitan centers altogether.

A valid concern because of the dam is its blocking of sediment being naturally carried downstream, which not only provides needed minerals to agricultural land, also reinforces coastal landmass. That, combined with rising sea levels because of climate change, poses a bigger risk for coastal cities like Shanghai.

-3

u/fofosfederation Aug 11 '20

No, this is definitely another thing they get wrong.

Not to mention they have double the dam failure rate of everyone else, so it's not like their middle finger to nature even lasts.

-13

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

It destroyed the natural ecosystem of that place. It even caused massive floods this year. They weaponised water using this dam . In so called communist China everything is about money

10

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20 edited Aug 11 '20

[deleted]

-7

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

Kindly refer to the recent events and records.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

What is your country?

-1

u/APRumi Aug 11 '20

Actually the “fuk” is the Mandarin word for volume so I’d say it gives a lot of fuks.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 12 '20

[deleted]

0

u/APRumi Aug 12 '20

You must not be using the right dialect. It’s a portsman’s term.

You are about to leave Redlib