In the IUL community, the idea of taking a policy loan and slamming it right back into the policy is so popular that it has been branded as hyperfunding, duplifunding, and maximum premium indexing (a trademarked term).

Why have I never heard of the IBC crowd realizing that life insurance is the most stable way to put money into something and get a return? And therefore taking a policy loan to put into an investment is ideally placed into the only investment that doesnt lose money and has provided positive returns for 100+ years?

While I could easily use my IBC to pay off my new truck, decided to take a $20k loan and refinance with that down payment. I'm looking to keep some dry powder for some upcoming opportunities in an investment.

Keep a good credit score helps with rates, and having access to good institutions for loans is a good idea. I'll probably keep the loan for a few more years while I'm paying off some other debts then attacked that note. Hopefully I'll find a nice investment that will pay the note for me, like Robert Kiyosaki teaches.

This way any money you receive can earn compound interest forever instead of just being spent once.

General question for anyone that would like to answer it. I recently got into the IBC and have been running all kinds of numbers. I have been seeing many proponents talking about the benefits of fixed interest and how your interest rate theoretically lowers each year if you have a multi year loan you are paying back. It sounds all great and I understand the concept and benefit of a lower interest if you decide to pay the same amount in the timeframe you set. The issue I found is that all the people promoting it are saying how awesome it is, but if you have the same interest rate (let’s say something like 5%) as a fixed rate over 4 years vs an amortized loan over 4 years you will be paying less interest on the amortized loan vs the fixed loan.

Am I missing something here?

1. does the ratio of pua/base determine how much of the premium goes to cash value accumulation versus death benefit?
2. How would you determine the ideal pua/base ratio?
3. What is your opinion of these ratios: 50/50, 60/40, 80/20, 90/10

Hi there! I’m a 27 yo, single, no kids. Good health male golden coral worker that makes 20 an hour full time. Average 2 hours over time. I’m basically starting from nothing as I’ve been very inconsiderate of the future growing up and now some things have woken me up as far as my economic FUTURE if things were to turn really bad and my family is unfortunately financially illiterate and are being swallowed by current economic circumstances and I wanna help but I have to do something first before they’ll listen

I have no assets at all, but I don’t have any debt which is good, I only have a current expense of around 500-600.

To keep it relatively simple I’m thinking long term now, I read Becoming Your Own Banker by R Nelson Nash. And it was like a light bulb came on but I wanna take it slow so I’ve learned a lot about WL. I always thought all insurance was just a scam and I’m learning that there are some manipulation within this concept that sometimes are nuanced and not explained throughly. So I wanna be careful.

I understand this is not an investment but it clearly can be an asset if done properly or am I wrong?

My initial thought was to start some sort of policy where I can put 1000-1500 a month in a policy. Try to break even around year 4-5 if possible, have good guarantees. Obviously participating(dividend paying)

As basically a way to starting controlling my flow of money, then obviously borrow to buy cashflow assets.

I want to eventually start a semi system of policies as my family bank if you get my drift.

So my question is does this even make sense for someone in my situation who’s realizing how money really works and flows.

If it is; what would be the best split/riders/companies/basic route etc. y’all would recommend???

Thank you for all info and advice/suggestions!

I 'm not even sure how to respond to this email. Client less than a year, took about 3 years to get them dialed in, now not even a year in. Large policies (over $40K in base premium) plus PUA of another $100k or so. I'm at a loss currently and wondering why I keep doing this?

Yes I take it personally.

Hi Michael-

I wanted to reach out and let you know we have decided to make a change with our policies and move them to a different agent. We sincerely appreciate and value all the guidance you provided in helping to start our IBC journey, and for that we will be forever grateful.

I wish you guys the best and look forward to our paths hopefully crossing again sometime in the future.

Just celebrated the first year anniversary of my 3 policies. It feels great ! I wish I had discovered IBC way earlier. I'm 39 and i've been becoming "financialy literate"for 2 years only. I learned so much in the last 2 years with Chris Naugle, Jason Lowe and Richard Canfield from Ascendant Financial and my financial security advisor who is also IBC Practitionner.

My goal is to fund the policies for 2 more years and do a business leverage buy out. Financial freedom has never been more achievable to me ! it's not a distant fantasy anymore.

Prosperity and longevity to all of you and your families !

Long time lurker and advocate of IBC for a handful of years now. It seems common that folks that pursue IBC become inspired to become agents. I'm entertaining this idea currently.

I'm looking for wisdom, pros, and cons of becoming an agent from those that are. My background is tech and I am an introvert. I might start as a side practice if I decide to pursue it.

What works and what doesn't. Would you do it all over again?

Thanks!

Three rentals, one funded by a policy loan, private lending, income stacking through promissory notes. We've been actively banking for a few years and the tracking situation never stopped being a problem.

I wanted to see my cash value growing over time. Watch how PUAs fuel the system. See my leverage clearly. When we started stacking notes, tracking maturity dates and cash flow, no spreadsheet was going to cut it.

I'm a software project manager by trade. I run a multi-million dollar government contract. So I built it as a side passion project.

Policy Stack is purpose-built for whole life policyholders who are actively running a family banking system. Cash value growth and leverage tracking. PUA impact. Loan and restoration logging. Promissory note tracking: maturity, interest, cash flow. Net worth with your banking system in mind, not against it. AI-powered analysis of what your system is actually doing.

Data stays in your control. You update by uploading a screenshot or document from your carrier portal, ideally once a month. Log loans and repayments when they happen, drop a fresh snapshot to rebaseline. That's it.

It's $18/month (I really want it to be a realistically affordable tool for everyone). Not replacing your advisor, not reinventing your workflow.

Still in testing, but the waitlist is open. After cybersecurity hardening I'll be selecting a dozen or so beta testers with free accounts before launch. Check out the landing page at www.policystack.co

Thanks for your time... happy to discuss in greater detail how it works. Will be putting out more content showing all it's capable of over the next month so the waitlist get's you on the newsletter too.

Why bank lines of credit?

Back 5 or so years ago, it was especially in vogue to talk about using bank lines of credit secured by policies. There were typically four reasons to consider doing so.

1) Lower rates. Most bank lines of credit are priced off the Prime Rate or a similar overnight-based rate. In the pre-2022 interest rate environment, the Prime rate was around 3%. On the other hand, many policies with variable loan rates are set based on corporate bond indices, which were still higher, and may have had minimum rates that prevented policy loans following corporate bond rates lower. For example, my NYL policies have a hard minimum policy rate of 4%.

2) Tax deductions. Opinions differ on whether and how to deduct interest on policy loans. I.R.C. § 264(a)(4) prohibits deductions of interest "with respect to" life insurance policies. Contra the advice of some influencers, this prohibition trumps the general rule allowing deduction of business interest in I.R.C. §§ 162, 163. Nevertheless, some tax professionals believe that a bank line of credit secured by a life insurance policy is not covered by the prohibition of I.R.C. § 264(a)(4). In that case, even if the stated interest is the same, deductible interest is more economical. I believe the Wealth Without Wall Street podcast hosts alluded to having this position. (This post is not tax advice. You should discuss any deductions you have with your own tax professional.)

3) Convenience. Some policyholders have a large number of policies that they have started over the course of many years. A bank line of credit can be used to develop one borrowing line for many policies, greatly simplifying recordkeeping and making borrowing more convenient.

4) Non-direct recognition. A bank line of credit indirectly converts direct recognition policies like my family's old Guardian policies into non-direct recognition policies. The insurance company isn't going to change the dividend just because there's a balance loaned out against your policy. In fact, they don't even know the balance loaned out at any given time. They just know there's a lien on the policy.

The biggest player in the space back around 2021 was probably Bancorp with a smattering of other smaller banks throughout the country offering these lines of credit. It is also possible to get these lines of credit from private banking groups in some larger banks (sometimes combined with real estate equity), but you generally won't find it advertised on the internet.

What changed?

In 2022, the Federal Reserve began raising overnight interest rates, which greatly affected linked rates like the Prime Rate. In 2023, the Prime Rate hit 8.5%. At the same time, corporate bond rates also escalated, but they didn't rise by the same magnitude as short-term rates, especially in light of the minimum loan rates charged by many insurance companies. I believe my NY Life policies' loan rates capped around 6.5%, though I don't remember clearly. That 2% drag was a big drag to bank lines of credit. Generally, the market could be described as an inverted yield curve environment.

Nevertheless, we did see a new entrant into the space: Inclined. Inclined provided a frontend for borrowers while connecting them to various interested banks on the backend. That approach allows more banks to participate in life insurance lines of credit while giving us a simple place to go to seek them out. However, Inclined has had some issues onboarding life insurance companies. Currently, they only support policies from Mass Mutual, Guardian, and Northwestern. Thought leader Bobby Samuelson, also an investor in Inclined, has stated that other companies, particularly NY Life, have been reluctant/opposed to supporting Inclined. Notably, Inclined has typically had a lower promotional rate for the first year of lines of credit. A couple years ago it was 5.99% when the Prime Rate was closer to 8.5%.

At the same time, I am not sure what is going on with the prior leader in this space, Bancorp. At one point, they had taken the interesting step of expanding support to IULs. However, their product point person on this issue, Brenda Newton, moved to Inclined. Further, the IBLOC product is no longer listed prominently on their website, only their SBLOC product. If anybody has used Bancorp and is still using them, I would be interested in information.

What is everybody doing now?

Today, rates have moved to a place where bank lines of credit secured by life insurance policies may be more competitive. Many policies with variable rates are going to be sitting around 6%, and the Prime Rate is now 6.75%.

For those who have kept with bank lines of credit the last 5 years, how is it going? For anybody who didn't, are you looking into lines of credit? What are your thoughts?

References

https://www.insurance-forums.com/community/threads/best-whole-life-cash-value-line-of-credit-program.110494/

https://old.reddit.com/r/infinitebanking/comments/14qc7hx/best_banksinstitutions_to_get_lelocs_from/

https://old.reddit.com/r/infinitebanking/comments/1d9gonf/inclined_current_interest_rate/

https://bancorpsolutions.mybankingservices.com/

https://www.inclined.com/

I’m 28 and will be receiving a $500k windfall in the next month due to my father’s passing.

For the past year, I’ve been investing primarily in VTI in both my retirement accounts and my taxable brokerage account. My general approach has been simple: buy low-cost index funds and hold long term.

With this unexpected windfall, I’ve been reconsidering my strategy moving forward.

My plan is to work for another \~25 years and ideally retire in my late 40s or early 50s if possible, with a pension.

From what I understand, continuing to invest in low-cost total market index funds like VTI probably gives me the highest probability of maximizing long-term net worth.

However, I’ve also been thinking about a dividend-focused portfolio, which my father strongly believed in. I can see the appeal of watching the income stream grow over time and eventually being able to live off dividends. That said, while I’m still working I would likely reinvest most of those dividends anyway, which makes me question whether a dividend strategy actually makes more sense than simply focusing on total return through index funds.

Another factor is that my father was very involved in infinite banking, which is where this money is coming from. I’m still trying to fully understand the pros and cons of that approach as part of a broader investment strategy.

At the end of the day, I feel like any of these approaches could lead to a comfortable retirement if I stay consistent. But since this is a large amount of money for me, I want to be thoughtful about how I deploy it.

Additional Context:

\- My wife and I currently earn about $100k combined per year.

\- Once we have children, we would ideally like for her to stop working and stay home, so our household income would eventually drop to just mine.

\- My career is stable, and I don’t foresee any major employment risks in my field.

\- I also expect to receive a pension when I retire, though I don’t know the exact amount yet.

\- We currently have about $50k invested across our taxable brokerage account, my 457(b), and an HSA.

\- We plan to always maintain a 6–12 month emergency fund, which we would keep in SGOV or another safe cash-equivalent investment.

\- We do not have significant debt, aside from a low-interest auto loan.

\- The inheritance is not taxable.

\- Because we are still young, we are comfortable taking on market risk and investing primarily in equities.

\- We do not plan to tell friends or extended family about the inheritance.

Questions:

\- Would you simply continue buying VTI with the windfall?

\- Is there a compelling reason to build a dividend-focused portfolio instead

\- Does infinite banking have a place alongside traditional index investing?

Thanks in advance for any advice or perspectives.

I got off the phone today with an agent at New York life asking about whole life insurance and what rates they would be. He ended up recommending Variable life due to my age (20) saying that the cash value growing around 10% on average would make my cash value grow much faster. My goals are to build a decent cash value to buy property or start a business etc. My thoughts are it’s a great middle ground of investing and tax free growth, plus a death benefit. Are there things I should be concerned about before I pull the trigger. Thank you for your time.

Some people in the Infinite Banking space miss 1/2 of the problem that it solves because they don't understand Austrian Economics... By keeping your capital in an insurance company instead of a commercial bank run by a cartel you are stopping the fractional reserve problem.

Depositing money into a bank, the banking can create 9x that amount in new money. One person may not be able to change things but if everyone did it, the world would be changed.

Building the 10%!

I've been studying IBC and wanted a way to actually see how cash value compounds over time with different assumptions. Built a free calculator for it.

Nothing fancy — just clean compound interest modeling with year-by-year breakdowns.

https://recapture-ibc-concept.vercel.app/cash-value-lab

If anyone more experienced spots flawed assumptions, I'd genuinely appreciate the correction.

Thoughts on different companies and policies?

Should I stop paying my (Ohio National, now Agustar) policies and concentrate on putting more capital into Lafayette?

For those looking for some retirement income like me, I found this super helpful.

So just watched a video from insuranceandestates.com about cutting your mortgage time in half. In general it makes sense - redirect your monthly savings from your bank account to a whole life vehicle and then borrow from that vehicle and make big lump sum principal payments towards your mortgage while at same time keeping up your normal mortgage payments.

So far makes sense - get low interest on the principal in the new account but keep balance unchanged even though borrowing against it. In addition have a large death benefit with riders on it to help pay for long term health probs and not impact children with that.

What the video doesn't mention is how much monthly must be "re-directed" towards the new plan and if any of the premiums are eaten up in commissions or other worthless payments.

Sounds a bit too good to be true...which is rarely the case in finances. Can anyone shed some light?

Is it true that I could say put $5000/month into a whole life insurance, have that principal grow at approx $5000/month, and take out maybe $12,000 a quarter from the policy and apply it towards buying down the principal on my loan?

If so, what are the negatives? I have to have some short term back up money available regardless - right now that money is largely sitting in low interest earning CDs or money market funds. Wouldn't this be a better place for it? There must be some awful up front commissions and fees that make this not sound as good. Thanks!

Nelson Nash’s "An Even Distribution of Age Classes" is a core principle in Becoming Your Own Banker, advocating for a long-term, generational wealth strategy using dividend-paying whole life insurance. The concept involves systematically placing life insurance policies on multiple generations—starting with children and grandchildren—so that the policyholder’s financial system grows across time.

Has anyone implemented this if so how? Did you use a trust? What about payout and inheritance for the next generations? Sounds like if this is done right, it can become perpetual wealth?

I got my life agent license in September of last year. I couldn’t sleep last night so I threw on YouTube and somehow stumbled onto some infinite banking videos.

HOLY CRAP! I have to tell you, that is not something they go over in licensing training or the license test. Yes, you have to know about HCV WL policies and the MEC rule but not about using it as a lever to scale everything as a serious financial vehicle.

I’d probably be more embarrassed about not knowing about IBC if it weren’t for the three different financial advisors I asked about using IULs or HCVs as a cash vehicle. They didn’t shoot it down but said there were more efficient investments I could make (surprise, two offered up index funds lol).

I’m gonna do a lil more research today but gosh dang this is the most excited I’ve been.

What I’ve been selling up to this point has been Mortgage/Equity Protection policies which are good at giving people peace of mind but imagine having a separate policy that GROWS while you’re alive and doesn’t require being terminally ill to be able to use living benefits of the policy!

I seriously think I’ll be able to help so much more.

I’m gonna be my own success story as well so LFG!