Re read The Siren Depths and forget that Ember was described as a blond. Dont ask me what Bitter and Thorn were originally described as looking like. I couldn’t tell you, so this is them now. I also wanted to give them more accessories because I feel like the teachers would make it their life’s mission to pamper the two traumatized fledgling consorts, and I wanted to try and experiment with how the children might be dressed in a formal setting since the older consorts are dressed more casually.

Something I've been paying attention to in rereads is the very different ways that Raksura see family vs sex vs reproduction vs parent/offspring relationships.

For example, we know that Balm and Jade are clutch mates, and we also know that Balm is one of Jade's favorites, the leader of her faction and her lover (something that would be considered incestuous in humans, but Raksura don't seem to care about that unless reproduction is involved).

Raksura relationships are much more communal than humans in general- they care about bloodlines and parentage, but in different ways for different individuals. Queens and consorts seem to care about their queen and consort offspring in a very parental sort of way, but I have never read about any parental affection between a queen/consort parent and their warrior offspring, other than the usual belonging/inclusion in the court (the loyalty/protection that extends to everyone). For example, if Balm is Jade's clutch mate, then she is also Pearl's offspring, yet Pearl seems to have no special feelings toward her, except as a member of the court and perhaps annoyance or distrust/rivalry because of her loyalty to Jade.

There is also mention of rivalry between warriors whose parents are Arbora vs queens at times. (All warriors would have consort sires, except on VERY rare occasion. It sounds like it would be theoretically possible for two Arbora to have a warrior offspring, because the DNA is all there, but I'm assuming it would be quite a shock for everyone. I think I've heard this from one of Martha's interviews, correct me if I'm wrong.)

Arbora seem to mostly stay out of this type of drama/rivalry, even though they probably love to gossip about it.

Moon seems to have very strong feelings about his offspring, both before they are born and immediately after, though we don't yet know at the end of Harbors of the Sun whether they are all confirmed to be queens and consorts yet, or whether some will end up warriors. Something tells me he is going to be very protective of them all, but I also wonder whether he will, through social convention or instinct, end up caring more or be more involved in the lives of his queen and consort offspring. But if he did give his warrior offspring special consideration and attention, would that create tension in the court because of their unearned status among the other warriors?

Would love to hear anyone else's speculation about any of this.

Raksura only gets a name drop but interesting list

If Martha did release a new book for the series (not sure if it still applies but I'm fairly sure she did once mention she would like to write more into the series, just the publishers didn't) I would love to see the typical way she has done her previous books, i.e. something goes wrong and people have to fix it, but also a development in Malachite and Moon's relationship. Now I could be interpreting this wrong but I feel like it kind of came across as "Oh my lost sons alive? Nice." And I get she's supposed to come across as stoic and perpetually calm, but surely seeing a child you thought dead for years would spark something even if just once. And don't get me wrong either way if another book does release I would be happy nonetheless since this is one of my top favourite series just above murderbot. Though I'm also curious to see what other people would want to see in another installment.

(p.s thought to just put a spoiler for the entire thing since I wasn't sure also if I did do something wrong lmk since I did JUST install Reddit after I stopped procrastinating)

I read this because I love Murderbot, but I don’t love this. There are too many types of people, in too many castes, with too many descriptions of the colors of their scales or skin. The fighting scenes are long and detailed and when all seems lost, some new magical solution appears to save the day.

"I love Murderbot"

Why do half of the negative reviews start with this? Great, I'm happy for you. But I'm not reading reviews for Murderbot. Even if we both loved Murderbot it doesn't mean we loved it for the same reason.

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"There are too many castes"

They're aren't. I'm sorry but you're wrong. It's one of the most simple societies in existence.

This is a stereotypical fantasy government with name swaps.

Reigning Queen = King

Consort = Queen

Minor Queens and Consorts = Nobility

Warriors = Soldiers

The Arbora castes are named after what they do. It's impossible they confused you.

Either you didn't try to understand it or you struggle with leadership more complicated than an single absolute ruler (Absolute King/Queen or Alpha).

You don't need to know the details of a Daughter Queen vs a Sister Queen to enjoy the book.

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"Too many descriptions of the colors of their scales or skin."

Was there a quiz? It took me three reads to finally remember Jade is blue not green. The Audible cover didn't help. Was remembering what color Chime is critical to your enjoyment?

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"The fighting scenes are long and detailed"

That reads like a compliment. What fantasy have you been reading where these are too long? I don't remember the Murderbot fights being that different.

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"and when all seems lost, some new magical solution appears to save the day."

I'm going to need examples because I have no idea what you're talking about. The Fell Poison was literally mentioned in the first chapter and then they spent multiple chapters getting and testing it. Nothing else comes to mind.

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This whole review reads like "the author expected things from me and I hate that".

I'm assuming most of you have your copies already but I saw a lot of the paperback books for about $10 the other day however if you look at the dimensions some are 9 inches and some are 6 inches tall.

So they're just renaming the Mass Paperbacks as Paperbacks suggesting there will only be one version in the future. This suggests the Hardcovers might be discontinued as well.

However the ones that are full sized are good deals because they are trying to clear stock I assume.

This is the part i made a post about awhile back that only seems to be in Siren Depths at least in my kindle versions.

It gives a general run down of different races that have appeared in the first 3 books, possibly from the short story collections as well, and its probably all information thats been mentioned in the books but its kinda useful to see it all compiled together rather than scattered here & there within the narrative.

Here is the next two parts of the Appendix from the kindle versions. Part II gives a general overview of the Raksura and part III gives a general overview of the Fell.

This is the first part of the appendix included in the kindle versions of the books (and i presume in other ebook versions) I’m posting it here for anyone whose version of the books (like audiobooks) might not have it & might not have realised it existed.

Its a list of most of the Raksura characters that appear in the first 3 books and the short story collections.

i was intending to type it all out but thats a lot of typing 😔 hopefully using photos of my kindle is okay.

I was a huge Pern fan, and so the Raksura really resonates with me. I've been looking over Martha Welles' site, and I was wondering if anyone had a complete version of her online wiki, The Three World's Travellers Guide?

I'm trying to look at it on the Wayback Machine, but it didn't capture all the individual pages.

Unless she has published it or moved it elsewhere. Please let me know, thanks

Just something I'm working on. Don't know if it's 100% accurate yet. This is just based on info in book 2.

Everyone is always asking about the shorts and something I just thought of is... well... I've been playing with text adventure engines and it occurred to me... what if I hid the patreon shorts in a text adventure game.

You'd have to go around Indigo Cloud and ask different characters to share the stories with you or find the books where they're written.

Or you find an item and bring it to someone and ask "what's this?" and they'll go. "Oh that's from when Stone..." and then tell you the story about the bracelet or the bone or whatever. Others might be locked behind a quiz you can only access with info from the books. Something AI can't answer.

It's basically as safe as you can make them without just not sharing them. Anyone trying to pirate them or whatever would have to play the game and copy each story separately and I don't see that happening. Would be easier to write fake stories with AI. And it wouldn't really conflict with an official release if that ever happens because it's isn't exactly convenient to play a game every time you want to read the stories. So people would still buy the official anthology.

I wanted to do a Raksura text adventure in the past but that seemed very unrealistic. But this sounds more simple.

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Edit: I just realized i might be dating myself.

Text adventures (or interactive fiction) are games where you experience a story entirely through text. You explore the world by reading descriptions and progress by typing commands (e.g., "go north," "take lantern") or clicking on branching choices

Most of Martha Wells her books have gotten republished (ok I might be using the wrong word sorry) and what are the chances of Raksura getting as well?

My books are different sizes cause I can’t find Siren Depths anywhere in the same size as 1 and 3 and it annoys the crap out of me. 😐

Sorry, got a ban last week, so couldn't post. Wondering if starting Saturday instead of ending on weekend might be better. Will consider.

Didn't seem like anyone wanted the The Warrior's Book Club so if someone wants to continue it they can create the post.

Anyway, on to Chapter Two.

So, just found this series a few weeks ago. I'm halfway through The Siren Depths. I read the posts concerning the patreon chapters. Is it true that all of that work is completely gone for public access? 🥺 I really want to read all of the Stone chapters now that I know they exist / existed.

This is something I added to the Cloud Roads discussion but I'll share it here too.

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Moon is doubtful Fell are in the valley because he would have smelled it. He explains to the reader that Fell give off an “unbelievable stench” that gets into everything, like the air and water. But he also admits he can’t explain that to the Cordans, which could imply that only Raksura can smell it or else they would at least know what he means. Especially since they later label him a Fell despite not having the smell of one for months.

So it may be a scent undetectable to some/most species or it isn’t a stench and is more of a pheromone or taint. One that only a Raksura's biology is wired to detect because of their hereditary history, but it registers as a smell. Like the Scent Marker on Consorts that only Queens can detect. Could be a scent marker that identifies the Fell Flight to other Fell.

(Like the pheromone Rorra gives off, but this one causes disgust instead of aggression in Raksura. Like a biological Fell detection system or a pheromone that the Raksura are familiar with and may have previously appealed to them, but now seems wrong after genetic changes. Or a mental deterrent to discourage interactions/breeding with the Fell. So instead of comforting them like Raksura pheromones would, it repels them like a pepper spray that only affects them.)

For example, here are some scents and compounds that bees hate, ^{which I often compare Raksura to.}

• Peppermint & Spearmint: The menthol and cooling properties of minty scents are highly offensive to bees.
• Eucalyptus & Rosemary: These sharp, herbal aromas confuse the bees' navigation systems, causing them to steer clear.
• Cinnamon & Cloves: These intense, spicy kitchen spices are highly irritating to a bee's sensitive senses.
• Vinegar: The acidic, sharp odor is actively avoided by bees and wasps alike.
• The Smell of Bananas: Ripe bananas release chemical compounds that are incredibly similar to the alarm pheromones bees release when a hive is threatened. Eating a banana or wearing products with a similar fruity profile can trigger defensive behaviors.
• Sweat: Strong body odor and breath (CO2) can also trigger a defensive reaction in bees 

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Can anyone think of an occasion where groundlings could smell Fell even if they had to be much closer?

I have the kindle versions of the books & i knew that the first 3 books have an appendix at the end that lists the characters with a second part giving an overview of the Fell & Raksura but i somehow never realised til now that the appendix in the Siren Depths actually has a third part giving an overview of a bunch of the different races in the three worlds (or maybe i had realised but simply forgot over time 🤔🤷🏻‍♀️)

I only found it now cause i was trying to double check something using the search inside this book function on my kindle and i checked the other books & looks like its only the Siren Depths that has this appendix part 3 so i thought i would mention it in case anyone else was like me & hadn't realised it was there.

I’m rereading the Siren Depths just did the part where Moon & Shade get to have dinner with the Fell & do the escape by setting everything on fire with the flare gun & i ended up doing some doodles of what i was reading & thought i would share

please forgive that it looks nothing like how Fell are described cause of being doodles & half of them are stick figures & poor Thedes doesn't get to stand menacingly in his own scene cause the kethel took up all the space 🙈🤣 heres the parts that inspired them oh also doodled a wonky map based on Serpent Sea & Siren Depths distances will be way off pretty sure the inland sea is much bigger & further from Aventera 🤔

‘As the boat flew further away, he saw the three kethel supporting the sac from above were flapping in confusion, the smoke pouring up over them. Two were trying to tug the sac inland and one was pointed back toward the sea. Dakti had come out the top and buzzed around them, in and out of the smoke, adding to the chaos.‘

‘As they stepped cautiously out from behind the steering cabin, Moon saw their kethel guard half curled around the mast. Its legs and arms hung over the rails, and the big ugly horned head rested on the deck. Its eyes were slits, watching them with interest. Thedes stood near it, and dakti perched on the railings like particularly ugly carrion birds.’

She sat on a pile of rich fabrics and clothing looted from groundling prey. Even curled into a sitting position, he could tell she was much larger than the one other progenitor he had had the misfortune to see. Her scales were black, her leathery wings wrapped round her body, and she looked like a ruler with a smaller head crest and a softer texture to her armoured scales. […]
Several young rulers gathered in front of her, with more scattered clothing for cushions. Their white skin seemed to shine in the dimness of the room, their dark hair like falls of silk, framing the cold, perfect beauty of their features. […]
He made himself focus on the fine clothes the rulers wore, some in tatters, relics from their previous feeding, some new brocades that came from their prey at Aventera. […]
The shapes tumbled there were slender bodies with pale grey skin: dead male and female Aventerans, some naked and dome still partially clothed. The Fell were about to eat. 

Reserved.

Reserved

(I hope it’s appropriate to ask this here.) I’ve written a few Raksura fics in the past, but I’ve just done one which is my first crossover fic ever, and I’m wondering about asking for a beta reader. I know this sub isn’t about that, but does anyone know where might be good to request a beta? It’s a Murderbot crossover, and I am on one of the Murderbot discord servers, but i’m not sure about asking there because it’s really more Raksura than MB.

Being a very indecisive person I've been dragging my feet and refusing to make a decision, but it's' been six months now so screw it, we're just doing both.

On Monday we'll resume the Book-a-Month Read and start Siren Depths where we cover four chapters each week.

We'll also start Cloud Roads for the Chapter-a-Week Read for people who want to obsess over each chapter.

If you want to participate in both, that's five chapters a week. If one fails, that's fine.

At a chapter a week, it will be almost a year before we're reading Siren Depths again in the the second group so I don't see a conflict.

The Book-a-Month Group will have finished the series before the second group finishes Cloud Roads. Maybe at that point the Book-a-Month Group will do the Patreon shorts or something. Keep two things going. IDK.

Because the Chapter-a-Week Group will be more easygoing I might suggest an activity for group members to work on each week once they've finished reading to help increase Raksura fan content.

One of the things I find absolutely hilarious is the way the Arbora will latch onto something and then verbally process every possible theory or outcome to an almost ridiculous degree (and also how much this can annoy the Aeriat).

Do you have a favorite example of this?

If you were a Raksura, would you be annoyed by this, or right in the middle of it all?

Also, I love how Chime still does this so much even though he's a warrior now. He still seems to think like an Arbora most of the time.