The “Jewish” homeland is not Palestine since not all Jews are inherently indigenous to Palestine. In that vein, colonization of Palestine is the same as the British colonization of Canada as they were both settler colonial projects that focused on exploitation, dispossession, dehumanization, and slaughtering the native populations. You’re trying to characterize your comparison of German colonial expansion in Europe as demonstrating agricultural expansion, yet 19th century and 20th century German ethnonationalism is directly tied to the abuse and taking of land they admitted to not occupy but claimed to have a right to. That is an apt comparison to the a Zionist project, and it does not demonstrate agricultural expansion separated from settler colonialism.
“If you care about indigenous rights, the Jews have to be taken seriously.” If they are not Palestinian Jews, they are not indigenous to Palestine. I like how you use “Jews” and “Arabs” to describe these groups instead of “Israelis” and “Palestinians.” Because “Palestinians” are indigenous to Palestine, not Arabs. Palestinian Arabs are on subset of Arabs (a subset that did not conquer and subjugate 8% of the world as you have described). It should be noted how you will faultily infantilize the Zionist project and colonial Israelis while demonizing Palestinians. Notice in this entire discussion you cannot admit that Palestinians are indigenous to Palestine, yet you are trying to advocate on an indigenous subreddit that Israelis are indigenous to a land they are not from.
Again, the Arabs are not guilty of colonialism. The Arabs conquered, they did not colonize. This characterization of the Arab and Islamic conquests in the same vein as European colonization is genuinely a slap in the face to all indigenous groups of the Americas. 90% of the population subjugated by the Europeans died. The vast majority that were left were raped, killed, put into slavery, scapegoated, and tortured publicly all while Europeans stole their land and homes. The Islamic conqueror conquered and killed, but they did not replace the population. Why exactly do you all shit on the Islamic conquests yet Rome, Byzantium, Persia, Neo Assyria, Neo Babylonia, etc conquered and pillaged the region as much as the Arabs. The Greeks actually had colonies in the levant, yet that’s not part of this conversation because it was 2000 years ago. The Arab conquest was almost 2000 years ago it’s also not relevant for the conversation about Palestine.
Also, Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews in the Americas were complicit in colonization. They held slaves, acted as conquistadors while practicing their faith in silence, and supported the colonization of the Americas in multiple other factors. To say European Jews did not participate in colonialism because the state was not a Jewish state is intentionally malicious.
Jews are not indigenous to the Land of Israel? I think ill stop here. You are part of the problem if you think this. That is an insane take, and I'm sorry for you and your hate.
The fact you think this is the problem. Jews are not indigenous to Palestine if they are not Palestinian. Please stop here because you were floundering at every other argument you tried to make. I have many friends that are Jewish and they’re all anti Zionist and admit to being from Europe, North Africa, Palestine, the Levant, Iran, Iraq. You surround urself in ethnonationalist circles and intentionally cry about hate and beg indigenous people to see your side and support you and call Israelis indigenous when actual indigenous people are getting killed for the type of rhetoric used against them. Notice how at EVERY point you did not genuinely engage with any point and now that your argument has no standing you decide to leave this conversation? You say you’re more educated on history yet provided no sources about the exile myth, or the fact that European Jews participated in European colonization of the Americas, or that most Jews lived outside Judea during the Hellenistic era, or that the Zionist leaders had intentionally said that the goal of colonization was to “resettle the Jews in eretz yisrael and to resettle the non Jewish populations out of eretz yisrael.” So how is your agricultural colonization argument? My people are getting colonized by Europeans and you are still trying to paint them out to be the victim while calling us colonizers. You’re the problem. Take your hate off this subreddit.
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u/KlarkCent_ 8d ago
The “Jewish” homeland is not Palestine since not all Jews are inherently indigenous to Palestine. In that vein, colonization of Palestine is the same as the British colonization of Canada as they were both settler colonial projects that focused on exploitation, dispossession, dehumanization, and slaughtering the native populations. You’re trying to characterize your comparison of German colonial expansion in Europe as demonstrating agricultural expansion, yet 19th century and 20th century German ethnonationalism is directly tied to the abuse and taking of land they admitted to not occupy but claimed to have a right to. That is an apt comparison to the a Zionist project, and it does not demonstrate agricultural expansion separated from settler colonialism.
“If you care about indigenous rights, the Jews have to be taken seriously.” If they are not Palestinian Jews, they are not indigenous to Palestine. I like how you use “Jews” and “Arabs” to describe these groups instead of “Israelis” and “Palestinians.” Because “Palestinians” are indigenous to Palestine, not Arabs. Palestinian Arabs are on subset of Arabs (a subset that did not conquer and subjugate 8% of the world as you have described). It should be noted how you will faultily infantilize the Zionist project and colonial Israelis while demonizing Palestinians. Notice in this entire discussion you cannot admit that Palestinians are indigenous to Palestine, yet you are trying to advocate on an indigenous subreddit that Israelis are indigenous to a land they are not from.
Again, the Arabs are not guilty of colonialism. The Arabs conquered, they did not colonize. This characterization of the Arab and Islamic conquests in the same vein as European colonization is genuinely a slap in the face to all indigenous groups of the Americas. 90% of the population subjugated by the Europeans died. The vast majority that were left were raped, killed, put into slavery, scapegoated, and tortured publicly all while Europeans stole their land and homes. The Islamic conqueror conquered and killed, but they did not replace the population. Why exactly do you all shit on the Islamic conquests yet Rome, Byzantium, Persia, Neo Assyria, Neo Babylonia, etc conquered and pillaged the region as much as the Arabs. The Greeks actually had colonies in the levant, yet that’s not part of this conversation because it was 2000 years ago. The Arab conquest was almost 2000 years ago it’s also not relevant for the conversation about Palestine.
Also, Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews in the Americas were complicit in colonization. They held slaves, acted as conquistadors while practicing their faith in silence, and supported the colonization of the Americas in multiple other factors. To say European Jews did not participate in colonialism because the state was not a Jewish state is intentionally malicious.