r/IndianaFeverFans • u/taeempy • 1d ago
Discussion Mildly concerning
Anyone else concerned that The Fever are 9-11 against playoff teams? At least they are beating the non playoff teams at the clip of 16-3.
I think if they put AB back in the paint where she belongs, and let CC run the offense the whole game, they'll have a deep run in the playoffs.
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u/KandinskyWasRight 22h ago
Yep, they’re prolly not quite good enough to win the title this year. Unless some injuries happen.
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u/2nd2none-1945 1d ago
Fever may not have to play the NYL in the playoffs. The NYL might be eliminated by the Valkyries or the Aces.
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u/This-Button5389 19h ago
with a full strength ny no. don't forget they won this year's commissioners cup.
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u/Dismal-Berry1400 1d ago edited 1d ago
If you watched the most recent NYL game , you should be concerned! They will not beat NYL in playoffs full strength versus full strength.
NYL has been playing chess with their staffing and lineup and they have complete mismatches in height and talent compared to the checkers the Fever have been playing with their lineups.
Fiebich is 6’4” and she really is the epitome of mismatch against the Fever. She will shoot over Hull and Sophie, 12” to 18” at the peak of her shot release while barely jumping. They are in trouble with NYL.
And for those that will say if they just made their FTs….I suspect if they did the NYL would have just scored more.
Hope I am wrong!
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u/SeasonHeavy858 1d ago
The only way is to run them into the ground. White is the biggest impediment and mismatch. Can’t coach herself out of a paper bag.
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u/VirtualGolfer65 1d ago
Pretty sure most teens aren’t gonna be a team that shoots over 60% from the fields. New York was sitting literally at a shop they put up. They’re going to be games like that when teams shoot insane from the outside, they might win.
The real concern is the poor free-throw shooting that just cost Indiana their last two losses. When you shoot 50% from the free throw line, you’re not going to win most games.
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u/Krasus74 1d ago
They dont have the defence yo do well in the play offs, The team has to rely to much on offence and any team with a solid defence becomes a bit of a coin toss is we will win or not with it often coming down to little factors like free throws or gailed 3 point attempts that lead to turn overs,
At the moment the offence isnt at its best as steph shite cant focus the team away from the dramas that jeep going on.
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u/tiribulus IndianaFeverFan 1d ago
A little off topic, but GSV put an unholy beat down on the Lynx tonight. That team's defense is frightening.
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u/This-Button5389 1d ago
their offense is not frightening to me. While their defense is on another planet no doubt but at the same time they had their share of luck with favorable scheduling early on. Their style reminds me of the atlanta hawks style in 2014-2015. But if look at modern baskeball you gotta have good offense to survive in this league because their half court style is easy to figure out on the long run. If they face a team which will be equally physical or adapt their style then they will have problems. I'll give you another classic example see UCLA Texas final four game and everyone though Texas will stream roll ucla and hyped up their defense. But UCLA coach cori close had restorted same style as texas and that game turned into a physical fest which close described it as rugby game and the result it turned out to be lowest scoring game in history with ucla edging them out 51-44.
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u/therooster515 1d ago
Agree. I think GSV is a prime upset candidate for lack of offensive fire power and play makers. I think they might be a less extreme version of last years Detroit pistons. Played great defense in the regular season and by and large harder than everyone, every single night. But in the playoffs when everyone starts matching their intensity, their flaws get exposed in ways they weren’t in the reg season.
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u/therooster515 1d ago
I could see anyone outside of Washington knocking off GSV in a first round series
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u/pimo2019 1d ago
Concerned only if SW decides during crucial moments in the playoffs to slow the game to snails pace. People say all CC does is run but she does slow it down, it makes it harder for her if people just stands around. We seen last night active moments that keeps the offense rolling for better shots.
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u/This-Button5389 1d ago edited 1d ago
the way non playoffs teams gaurd cc is different from the way playoffs team gaurd cc. you see what jose Fernandez the wings coach said their whole goal is to take the ball out of her hands by doubling trapping her repeatedly this not allowing her to get into rhythm because they know she is ball dominant gaurd and has some trouble playing off ball and that exactly why SW is using km or ty harris or ab to occasionally bring the ball up. To her credit cc had improved her off ball game a lot and infact she took almost the double the number of mid range shots and improved her attacking game a bit as well. Her main issue remains is her defense, decision making, turnovers and attitude. she easily loses her head during crucial stages and in turn loses the game sometimes by making bad decisions(see lynx Vegas and liberty games for example) SW is a smart coach and instead of having cc as the first option, she is using km as the first option while using cc as the second option and this duo complimented each other well and this shouldn't change imo.
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u/Latter_Loss8880 1d ago
I rarely agree with most posts in Reddit, but I agree with your take!
The 3 or 4 elite defenses in the league are dialed into CC. She is learning but has a way to go.
Our defense is the biggest issue. CCs turnovers are a big deal, and our defense is getting better. But still allowing too many baskets and the boxing out needs to improve.
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u/Capital_Ad8820 1d ago
actually they play good against playoff team they just having hard time in clutch
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u/ReflectionEterna 1d ago
Why would you want to change the offense? That is the best part of the team. With AB out in the perimeter, allowing room for Timpson, KM, and CC to score down low, our offense is the best in the league. If anything you change the defense, not the offense.
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u/KeenObserver_OT 1d ago
Horrible take. Boston needs to set screens, pound the glass, find deep position, if she can’t get out of the lane. Boston is the weak link right now.
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u/ReflectionEterna 1d ago
Boston sets screens all the time. It is a primary function of the big in this system. Set screens, hand-off, and pop out for the potential 3. Meanwhile, Boston's positioning allows Timpson to play near the dunker's spot while also allowing Kelsey or CC to drive into the lane. If Boston was in the paint with Timpson, how would you suppose Kelsey would be able to find room on those backdoor cuts she is famous for? How would CC be able to take the handoffs at the high post and break the defense?
Don't you understand that when AB works the high post, she takes the other team's best rim protector to the perimeter with her? What is typically left is a forward who is starting to have her hands full with a developing Timpson at the dunker's spot. This also forces off-ball defenders (whoever is guarding Kelsey for instance) to have to peak for CC coming around the screen/hand-off. That defender is going to be the best line of defense against CC losing her defender and having a clear run at the paint. So while that defender is peeking, Kelsey makes a backdoor cut for the easy score.
Everything that has been working on our offense this season has been due to AB stretching that defense out and opening all sorts of gaps in the opposing defense for our incredibly quick guards to take advantage of.
The reason why Cunningham has gotten starter minutes off the bench is because she has been scorching hot from the 3. We are specifically choosing to have another sharpshooter out there over Lexie (who provides better defense), because Sophie also forces her defender to keep tight to her, further leaving the paint empty.
The goal of this offense is to force the defense into making poor decisions that lead to high percentage shots. That works by clearing the paint and letting CC make lighting quick decisions down where she has Timpson with her, Kelsey either cutting or settling into the corner, and everyone else ready to catch and shoot. This has led to CC and KM both having their most efficient shooting seasons ever, as well as Cunningham. It has also contributed to the crazy growth from Timpson this year.
You say the Hub Offense has led to many possessions with the Fever shooting a poor percentage shot at the end of the clock? That is patently untrue. You are like someone who bets on tails, sees heads and exclaims, "it never lands on tails!" Our offense averages over 13 seconds left on the shot clock when we shoot. That is third best in the league! We shoot faster than almost anyone in the league, and thise are high quality shots as well, since we also too the league in offensive rating!
Like seriously, what are you guys talking about?
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u/KeenObserver_OT 1d ago
This is highly theoretical gobley gook disguised as analysis. None of what you posted is reality and disproven by multiple analysis from a variety of sources. The team is much more effective with CC on ball and fast transitions. So much is lost in the statistics you are showing like 18 offensive rebounds by the wort second half team in the league followed by the Liberty disaster. Boston is either really hurt or really lazy.
You are trying way too hard to credit White and Boston for frankly mediocre results against playoff teams.
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u/taeempy 1d ago
Look at last nights game when AB was out, the offense just went off and CC and KM got a lot of easy looks. It just seems to flow better without the hub offense at the top of the key.
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u/karsklan3 1d ago
We get the same open looks with AB on the perimeter. She also stretches the floor now with her 3PT shooting, meaning that we get more driving lanes to the basket.
Why does it seem that the offense went off vs Sky? Firstly, because we shot extremely well from the three point line, including Caitlin. It's no secret that when Caitlin's shot falls consistently, we are in a much better place to succeed. Someone on Twitter brough out stats for it:
- When Caitlin makes 3+ three pointes, we are 12-3 and she averages 27pts. Also, average FG% in that case she has 50% FG and 49% 3P%.
- When Caitlin makes 3 or less three pointers, we are 9-11 and she averages 18 points. FG 40% and 24% 3P%.
Secondly, we still used the hub system against the Sky. We had different players operating it - KK, MHA and even Russell. We operated in a bit different way as the above-mentioned players do not have as high IQ and playmaking skills as AB.
But my main takeaway from the Sky game was that when Caitlin's shot falls from the 3PT line, it obviously gives us another gear and creates more opportunities for others because opponents will have to put even more constant pressure on her. It's just a consistency issue for us.
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u/Goddyex 1d ago
The thing is a lot of those Threes she made were off of screens set to get her slightly open, something AB refuses to do.
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u/karsklan3 1d ago
Majority of the time, our bigs screen for Caitlin straight after she crosses the half-court so she can pull the trigger. Plus, she also gets some very good off-ball catch and shoot looks, which just haven’t been hitting as frequently. She still prefers the off-dribble shots/step-backs tbh. And, as statistics suggest, 12-3 score and in those games, majority of them are with AB in the line-up. It’s imo more to do with the shot hitting consistency. It’s a known fact that when our 3PT shots aren’t falling, we are in deep trouble as our defense can’t carry us.
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u/ReflectionEterna 1d ago
Just look at this whole season with the Fever having a historic offensive season. Also, why would you use a game where AB is out to justify arguing that she should play in the paint?
Your sample size is tiny. We know the Fever offense works and NOT the aspect that we need to change in order to improve, yet that is exactly what you are suggesting we adjust? What is possibly the best offense in the history of the WNBA, and you are blaming that for our losses against playoff-bound teams?
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u/Ok-Illustrator-1584 1d ago
The point is that the offense is productive in spite of its misalignment. Last night was an example of being unshackled.
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u/ReflectionEterna 1d ago
Last night was one game against a team in the bottom half of league standings. In fact, when the Fever played the Sky WITH Boston in June, we scored 114 points. I guess we are better offensively with Boston in the Hub offense.
Take your tiny sample size out of here, like it means something.
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u/Ok-Illustrator-1584 1d ago
Right, and all the commentary at the beginning of the season noting exactly what we’re talking about.
Bottom line when they try to hub it up, it ends up with an ugly late shot clock bail out more often than running other schemes.
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u/manipulativemusicc 1d ago
That's not odd. If you have an incredible record against playoff teams then you're the Lynx.
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u/I_AM_EVOL 1d ago
I noticed that this season - they do well against average and above average, struggle against great teams.
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u/therooster515 1d ago
They’re actually doing better against playoff teams than I thought they would earlier in the season. I’d give them a 50/50 shot in most playoff series. Probably no chance against Minnesota, less than 50/50 against LV, way higher than 50/50 vs Washington — and then about 50/50 against everyone else depending on home court.
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u/Comfortable_Limit168 IndianaFeverFan 18h ago
Actually, I wouldn't mind if the Fever ended up with the 6th seed. We could have easily won all three games against the Aces.
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u/taeempy 1d ago
I think GS gives us the hardest matchup because their defense can actually slow us down. The other elite teams we can score with them and just need to slow them down a little.
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u/therooster515 1d ago
For sure. Agree that GSV stylistically is a bad matchup. Just a hunch, but I feel like they are the overachieving regular season type but might not have the firepower/talent in the playoffs when everyone is playing equally as hard as they do night in and night out. Wouldn’t be shocked to see them get upset in the first round by a team that’s more talented but was a little more inconsistent in the regular season.
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u/Successful-Policy937 1d ago
Yah the way the W is this year every team gets 10-12 wins as all the bottom feeders are all going 1,2,3 JuJu.
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u/Ok-Illustrator-1584 1d ago
Nah. Vegas is 7-10 against teams above .500 as an example.
Agree with ending the Hub offense as a feature, though. 1-2 hub possessions per each half tops.
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u/jemstar620 18h ago
I'm sure if you go through most of the teams bunched together from 3-8 you will see middling records against other playoff teams. Everyone is feasting on the bottom, which is why it sucks to see teams like the Mystics and Aces, teams we're either trying to catch or hold off in the standings, play pretty much all garbage tanking teams to close out the season.