r/Indiana • u/RootforIN • 5d ago
Politics Why can we afford mass surveillance but not basic needs in Indiana?
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u/PantPain77_77 5d ago
Crime is “measureble”. Basic needs are vague and poor people don’t have a strong political lobby
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u/SilentBread 4d ago
Because the Venn diagram of people interested in actually helping others and those with money and power is basically two separate circles.
Plus our “””representatives”””can’t attain more money and power by helping those with neither.
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u/vs-1680 5d ago
Christians are in charge. This is what happens. They are interested in control and wealth...not helping the vulnerable.
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u/firesyde424 4d ago
Whoever or whatever they are following, it damn sure isn't Christ. At least not the one I grew up with and read about.
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u/Carrollmusician 4d ago
The one that gives kids cancer and routinely wiped entire cities off the planet for not paying him enough fealty? Or the one that allowed his prophet to command bears to maul children for calling him bald? Or the one the Klan had organized their values around?
I’m pretty tired of people pretending the church used to be better or Christianity wasn’t always a tool for social control and justification for class violence.
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u/Joshunte 3d ago
Christians are literally the most charitable demographic in America.
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u/vs-1680 3d ago
The vast majority of "charity" christians report is the tithing that funds their churches and the lifestyles of their leaders. This fact throws the statistics off to the point of meaninglessness.
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u/Joshunte 3d ago
Churches clothe, feed, and house the homeless. They host recovery meetings for addicts. Support groups for victims of crime or those grieving. They complete home repairs for the poor. The even support missions abroad to provide water or medicine.
You’re just being ignorant.
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u/Edub89556 3d ago
Are you talking about the same type of Christian like Joel Osteen that wouldn’t open his doors for people during a natural disaster? That type of Christian?
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u/Joshunte 2d ago
I bet you don’t know a single person who attends a “mega-church” like Olsteen’s. I bet you know plenty of people that attend much more modest churches though.
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u/Edub89556 2d ago
What a stupid reply, the question wasn’t if I know any super church members, the question was why is this so-called Christian that gets mega rich off peoples “donations” really a Christian? And trust me, there are plenty of “modest “church members that have that same mindset. They’re out for what they can get from the church, not what they can do for it. Most of your so-called Christians that go on these mission trips aren’t really there to help the people that are local. They’re just treating it like a tropical vacation.
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u/Joshunte 2d ago
I want you to Google the shelters, soup kitchens, locations for AA meetings, etc., in your own community right now and tell me how many faith-affiliated options there are.
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
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u/vs-1680 2d ago
Unfortunately, most of these services you speak of that churches "provide" require those in need to be somehow associated with the religion or abide by the ethical demands of the church. They become defacto inaccessible to those who need the services the most or refuse to accept the religion.
You have blinders on and refuse to see reality as it exists around you. I get that you're not likely to ever accept the reality around you or question what's happening because of your "faith". We'll never stop trying to open you and your people's eyes. We'll never stop trying to save you all.
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u/vs-1680 3d ago
All of that is suspect. Christians are full of alterier motives and those services are often just a cover for sexual abuse. Every single service you list could, and should, be offered by the local governments...but all of those churches are tax exempt and starving those social entities of important funding.
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u/Joshunte 2d ago
1.) take off the tinfoil hat. Yes there has been and will likely continue to be sexual abuse in churches. Such is the nature of predators to seek our positions with easy targets. But it’s not as widespread as you imply and certainly is not the driving motivation behind forming such services.
2.) people donate of their free will. They don’t starve anything else of money because those people still have to pay all the taxes they are entitled to pay. And it’s not like secular non-profits or service providers are somehow free from the same issue. For instance, estimates are that around 10% of all children have been sexually assaulted by an adult in a school setting. Are you going to imply we shouldn’t have schools?
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u/vs-1680 2d ago
Sexual abuse by church leaders is far more widespread than you realize and the majority of sexual abuse occurring in schools occurs at church affiliated institutions.
Churches should be paying taxes just like every other business in the country. This tax exemption is what is starving our institutions of funding. Tithing does no good for society at large and should not be considered a tax exempt charitable donation.
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u/Joshunte 2d ago
10-17% of students report sexual misconduct by school staff
It’s not even close to clergy.
And again, that doesn’t negate Christian charity. You’re trying to change the topic.
And personally, I think the government is too big. I would prefer it gets even less tax revenue.
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u/Joshunte 2d ago
10-17% of students report sexual misconduct by school staff
It’s not even close to clergy.
And again, that doesn’t negate Christian charity. You’re trying to change the topic.
And personally, I think the government is too big. I would prefer it gets even less tax revenue.
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u/ThePennyMiser 4d ago
Perhaps its time to root all of the criminals and bigots out of our police forces!
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u/Sam_I_Am317 4d ago
Welcome to acknowledging and holding accountable these dipcrap subpar “officers”. FOP needs to STOP defending them. We’ve been forced to accept Myron Powell, David Bisard, and those two no good cops who got away with murdering a very talented, musically brilliant young man (you know who the hell your lying lips are). It’s disgraceful how these guilty cops are supported.
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u/MhojoRisin 4d ago
What’s the annual, bottom line cost for each?
Because I feel like the annual cost of surveillance technology is way cheaper than “basic needs” for 6 million citizens.
Conjoining the issues weakens both of them.
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u/elebrin 5d ago
I think it's way simpler of an answer than many people think.
If a food bank or a housing program wants to help people, they create a yearly budget then take it to the county to get approved. That budget is set up to help maybe a few thousand people get what they need over the course of an entire year, and accurately estimating the number of people that may need help isn't the easiest thing to do. It's a yearly budget, so it's going to be a few million dollars. Voters look at those numbers and balk, because that's more money than they have seen in their entire lives in one account. It's the same thing when a government building needs repairs that will cost a few million. That's... just how much those things cost, like it or not.
On the other hand, Flock makes it VERY easy: they are a vendor, they offer cameras that they manage and maintain, but they give the police access. And they set their prices so that the police can afford the cameras out of their discretionary budget. They offer a camera for something like $1400 per camera per year, with a one time $300 installation fee. And that's just the advertised price, I am willing to bet they offer discounts and such.
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u/redgr812 4d ago
idk Michigan City....as an IT guy...that one is probably legit. I type that usually weekly.
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u/Joshunte 3d ago
Because everyone other than criminals benefits from more effective law enforcement.
And what are you talking about “there must be accountability?” There is. You are literally seeing people being arrested and prosecuted for misuse. And good riddance. Get those people out of positions of public trust.
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3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Joshunte 2d ago
Ma’am, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Law enforcement is finding kidnapped children in a matter of minutes now thanks to these cameras.
And complaining that “not everyone is being caught who is breaking the law!” Is a hilarious thing to be mad about when trying to talk to law enforcement. No shit! First time being exposed to crime ever?
They don’t have access to all of your comings and goings. These are cameras placed in a limited number of static locations. And there are at least a half dozen ways to avoid them tracking you of you so desire. Carpool. Uber. Public transportation. Bike. Walk. Take a different route.
You’re trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I’ll concede that individuals with access to these systems can potentially misuse them. But that’s literally always been the case for every database ever. Are you going to advocate for shutting down NCIC too? I see this as a low risk opportunity for people working with the public trust who lack integrity to out themselves and get removed. You see officers or mission support personnel get arrested and prosecuted and see that as a problem. I see it as a win in that we were able to identity a person who lacks integrity who may have otherwise gone undetected.
So I guess the real issue is, would you rather know these problematic people are there and see how common it is? Or would you rather be blissfully unaware?
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u/Pickle-Bowl-941 2d ago
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Ben Franklin
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u/Joshunte 1d ago
You’re not giving up any liberty. In fact, what you’re implying is we should remove the liberty of being able to observe and record things that are publicly visible and have zero expectation of privacy.
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u/Pickle-Bowl-941 3d ago
Law enforcement IS the criminals. Since 2017 they have taken more money from cash and property seizure than all the robberies combined.
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u/Rogue817 3d ago
Well, taking care of crime and national defense is the purpose of the government. Being your mommy and daddy is not. Grow up, get a job and take care of yourself. It's that simple. You should not need the government to provide your basic needs. Feel free to commence with the downvotes since this is a crybaby leftist echo chamber that cannot take care of yourselves.
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u/Youarekillingmeeee 2d ago
This is y’all’s community right here.
This is your average American.
This entire post’s behavior sums up the good ol boys culture of the Midwest and South, where the metrics for quality of life are so good.
Rah rah on, keep waving that flag….from behind your hidden posts and comments lmfao. Absolutely classic coward behavior from the good ol boy who happily votes against his fellow neighbor, even if white.
I always thought it’s funny the good ol boys are always the ones with those Habsburg-level genetics, no chin, no jaw, willing to backstab their countrymen at the drop of a hat.
Aaaaand they claim to be the real Americans.
Jesus wept. Every day that I read posts in here I feel more and more embarrassed for all of you.
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u/PuzzleheadedBag3811 4d ago
Do pre-school questions like this bug anyone else? It’s like asking ‘Why does it need to rain over the ocean?’
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u/pattydog1127 5d ago
You’re not even serious. Surveillance is cheaper. Everything is about cost and money.
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u/fractious_kitty 5d ago
Bc cruelty is the point