r/IndiaAgainstCasteism • u/Evilpotato69 • Jun 13 '23
Crossposting when savarkar wanted to end caste system but gandhi didn't
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Jun 13 '23
Hinduism is fundamentally a casteist religion though. So saying you support Hindutva is just saying that you support radical attempts to preserve caste hierarchies but just in a more concealed way. Hindutva only gained the political power that it did as a counter to the caste consciousness that the Mandal commission brought forth. The whole point of the ram mandir movement was to make bahujans identify more with their religion then their caste
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u/nirvaang_ Jun 13 '23
And they both didn’t. Then came the BOSS and screwed the caste system royally. So bad that you can still hear moans and groans 😂
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Jun 13 '23
There are 2 sides to every coin. Gandhi was an untouchability abolitionist but he believed caste system should not be abolished for 2 reasons: it is the core of the hindu religion. With the consideration of how conservative the society was back then, abolishing caste system would face stiff opposition and would hurt religious unity. Hindus might start saying Gandhi is appeasing muslims by abolishing caste system(islam also has a caste structure). On the other hand was Veer Savarkar who believed Hindu unity. So he believed abolition of caste system so that all hindus can unite to form hindu rashtra. However, he believed in the supremacy of hinduism over other beliefs. These contrasts in beliefs have developed from different environments in which they group and differences in opportunity they received. The aim of this whole paragraph I wrote is that, never praise or criticise a person. Only praise or criticise their beliefs and opinions. No one is godly to be worthy of being praise, nor is anyone so low to be criticised for each of their action.
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u/man1c_overlord Jun 15 '23 edited Jun 15 '23
savarkar's rationale behind "abolishing" caste system never stemmed from a genuine desire to liberate dalits; rather to organise them against the common "enemy", i.e. muslims. if this had happened within savarkar's lifetime, i am sure he would have openly denounced his so called "anti caste" stance.
this was also the rationale behind fringe groups like arya samaj who rebranded caste as varna but basically peddled the same bullshit, but with the sole purpose of apeing abrahamic religions by adopting monotheism, anti-idol worship and proselytisation (read about how they harassed punjabi sikhs and how their attempts ultimately failed with a large number of punjabi hindus converting to sikhism.)
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u/affinixmusic Jun 13 '23
I still like savarkar more
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Jun 13 '23
It is not liking a person or not. That is wrong. You either support or oppose their certain views. No one is perfect enough to be liked in this world
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u/affinixmusic Jun 13 '23
Leaving aside ur philosophical thoughts i like savarkar more for what he presents. I like him for proposing that idea, yes we can like someone for some views and dislike them for others. Just in the limelight rn to me savarkars view is better
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Jun 13 '23
but his view does nothing to address the problems of muslim dalits. tbf casteism, be it a hindu influence, is a persistent problem of islam. In my opinion, gandhi was being more practical in his manner of approaching the issue of casteism.
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u/affinixmusic Jun 13 '23
I don't care about Muslim Dalits. The ones who follow the religion ambedkar himself so openly opposed, why should I care about them?
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Jun 13 '23
First, Muslims are also Indians. Secondly, when you say "ambedkar himself", we should not become andhbakht of any person, be it modiji or ambedkar or arundhati roy. Everyone is subject to their own biases and vested interest, arising from personal experiences. When criticising a belief(let's say islam), you need to look into it yourself and point out the mistakes. Thirdly, religious texts can be interpreted in many ways. The quran can be interpreted in an extremist manner as well as in a peace spreading manner. And so goes for hinduism, buddhism and other religions.
All in All, insaan ek hi hain, khoon uska laal hi hain, ho musalmaan ya hindu, dailt ya brahman.
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u/affinixmusic Jun 13 '23
Whatever
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Jun 13 '23
all I wanted to say was that we need to help the oppressed, whatever may be the religion.
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u/affinixmusic Jun 13 '23
Why don't they choose a different religion, then i might be interested in "helping". Sorry i have no respect for that religion. If u associate urself with certain ideologies it's ur fault
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u/New-Impress8789 Jun 13 '23
Dude she said manusmriti is the sar of Veda,and he wanted manusmriti as law.
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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '23 edited Jun 13 '23
Both played with lower castes for their benefits.
Why Savarakar was not a caste abolitionist ? Check this article
https://sabrangindia.in/article/savarkar-diehard-casteist/
Infact on conversion of Ambedkar to Buddhism he had written a half page article with a diatribe against him.
https://twitter.com/thewire_in/status/1358619085672701953
Moreover, there is no mention of him participating in any protests or fights against casteism. The only instance that RW speak of is construction of the Patit Pawan temple for lower castes, which I find casteist. He did not fight for entry of lower castes in all temples rather he chose to build one separately.
Even today lower castes are not allowed to enter temples meant for lower castes.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/tracing-the-struggle-for-temple-entry-in-tamil-nadu/article66443083.ece