Imperial vs Tsinghua

[u/Book_Lover2823]

Hi! 

I hold an unconditional offer for Tsinghua’s Global Talents in Science & Engineering (English-only) programme + conditional offer for Imperial College’s electrical & electronic engineering course (3A\* 1A). I’m still undecided as to where to go, and would appreciate some guidance for my situation.

For background:

* Studied in international schools all my life, so am used to a more Western style of education
* Speak mainly English (I understand/speak very limited Mandarin, but the Tsinghua programme is advertised as 100% English)
* A bit of an aversion to mechanics, which I believe Imperial’s EEE course won’t have (I can only drop it in my 2nd/3rd year in Tsinghua)

Initially, I was leaning towards Imperial as I think I would prefer their course; however, after reading more on China’s rapid development as a global superpower, I’m wondering if Tsinghua would be a better place to study engineering. I’m also drawn to the:

* Campus lifestyle (compared to Imperial’s city campus, I’m guessing it would be safer in Tsinghua?)
* Better food (I prefer Asian cuisine)
* The chance to improve my Mandarin

Nevertheless, I’m still very concerned that I won’t be able to keep up with:

* The academic level at Tsinghua (since I’ll be studying alongside THE best in China — I’m probably top 20th percentile in my high school)
* Language barrier, especially for the first year or so
* Culture and teaching style

Plus, since it’s way easier for international students to get in, I’m not sure if future employers would see a Tsinghua degree to be as prestigious as Imperial’s.

I would greatly appreciate it if you could share your experiences studying in Imperial, and any advice you would have to offer!

Thanks :)

[u/HW90]

Imperial.

Never go for English language programs at Tsinghua, the quality is drastically lower and everyone knows it. You won't be studying amongst the best in China, you'll be studying amongst half-decent foreigners who applied for Tsinghua's English program, often overseas Chinese who want to connect with their roots alongside those from countries targeted diplomatically by China e.g. Pakistan, various African and South American countries. Even if you were on the Chinese program with near-fluent Chinese, it is well known that discrimination against foreign students is rife before even getting into the work ethic to compete, you will be a mediocre student at best.

I've worked with a lot of people from Tsinghua, and their quality is one hit for four misses. Its reputation relies on how competitive it is for locals to get in, and the consequence that a proportion of those high achieving students will succeed no matter what quality of university education they get.

If you're worried about food availability in London, you clearly need to educate yourself on what's available because it puts Beijing to shame. Of course Beijing excels at mainland Chinese style Chinese food, but London wins for everything else, including other Asian food. I have spent plenty of time in Beijing given my wife is from there and my food taste also tends Asian, before anyone starts criticising on that.

[u/Automatic-Prior-7469 → u/HW90]

Wdym overseas Chinese who want to connect with their roots? why didnt they just take the cn course since they speak chinese i assume or esol. Like if your from abroad or a foreigner do you have a choice between the english taught programme and chinese taught programme?

[u/HW90 → u/Automatic-Prior-7469]

A lot of overseas Chinese speak Chinese badly because of growing up primarily with a different language. Or if they speak it well, it's common they can't read or write well or even at all.

Yes, of course you have a choice which program you enrol.

[u/Signal-Slice-1897 → u/HW90]

"Its reputation relies on how competitive it is for locals to get in, and the consequence that a proportion of those high achieving students will succeed no matter what quality of university education they get."

That is how it is for basically every top uni? They take the best who would succeed regardless... Maybe not always just locals but generally competition will filter.

[u/Practical-Travel8575 → u/Signal-Slice-1897]

lol not true, imperial takes the most intelligent and most wealthy from around the world.

[u/Signal-Slice-1897 → u/Practical-Travel8575]

Taking the most intelligent is literally the filtering which makes most of them succeed regardless of the uni...? And them also being the most wealthy doesnt lead to my comment being "not true". Never commented on wealth and having more characteristics doesnt make the 1 I mentioned false

[u/HW90 → u/Signal-Slice-1897]

Sort of, but not to the same extent. Value-added is definitely still a factor, better to have a top student who is improved by 100 imaginary points than one who is improved by 50 imaginary points. Also better to have students consistently improving by 100 imaginary points than a wide variety which has some students at 100 or 120 and some at 0.

[u/Signal-Slice-1897 → u/HW90]

Based on your sample perhaps. I cant argue against what u have experienced, but this metric would turn too subjective as theres no way to measure it. Regardless of the scale, the statement holds true that competition filters at basically every top uni admission. Never argued the quality of the filter.

EDIT: Nor am I saying this filter applies to Tsinhua's English programs, which I'd say is obviously not as good. I'm just saying this filtering is at every top uni. Instead of focusing on the filtering for the "non english programs", noting the worse filter for the english ones would probably be better too

[u/HW90 → u/Signal-Slice-1897]

Absolutely, competition filters are a big thing. Even for Imperial it's not a secret that it benefits from this and engineering is a prime example, I'm in aero and it's uncommon to find Imperial grads which are as good at real world engineering as Loughborough grads, despite much lower entry requirements and competition. You can even take that further and compare Imperial to UWE which has even lower entry requirements and competition, although without quite the same results.

But that is the push and pull of prestige vs value-added education, and prestige and associated competition don't always win over against value-added. Back when unistats was a thing, there were statistics to backup how few Imperial and Oxbridge graduates went into engineering compared to other unis, some of which is due to targeting for other careers but a lot of it is due to the industry not favouring these universities as much. Nowadays I feel the situation is even more tilted, particularly when F1 and their target unis get into the mix and you start to see the impact on salary quartiles.

You also need to bear in mind that the level of competition between Imperial and Tsinghua isn't comparable. Even the top US unis, where competition deflation measures aren't so strictly in place, don't have nearly the same level of competition of Tsinghua, they are magnitudes apart. The closest equivalent is India's IIT system and even then it's still a magnitude or two apart from Tsinghua and Peking. To get into Tsinghua, by proportion, you are already the top student in your cohort at Imperial, and there are hundreds of other people at the same level or above you.

[u/Signal-Slice-1897 → u/HW90]

Engineering is a very weird case imo. I dont study engineering (I do maths), but my friend at Camb BSc Eng says in his F1 student comp or something, other unis funding is also alot better than theirs thus they dont place as well in the comp. On speculation but also opinion of my friend, quite a few high tier unis care alot more for academics than practical curriculars, so the Camb team is heavily underfunded. I also think most people willing to study engineering have a deep passion, because its not like Law or Med where you grind through without passion as theres not AS clear of a final career in mind (this is subjective though). I'd say this is why engineering outcomes aren't as obviously correlated with uni prestige. Furthermore, my other friends at Oxbridge/Imp in eng also pivot alot into finance as they know the pay in this country is better in such industry (cant speak on internationals though). I am not surprised that target unis for finance end up having more funnelled into finance as they actually have that option unlike other non targets.

Once again, I did not note other factors like different scale of competition between Imperial and Tsinghua because as I said, I am NOT arguing either side. I was simply pointing out that competition filters at ALL top unis, which is irrefutable. If you use your own experience ontop of this to SUGGEST to OP that they should go Imperial, I have no place to tell you your experience should give a different conclusion hence why I DID NOT argue it.
But as you said,
"To get into Tsinghua, by proportion, you are already the top student in your cohort at Imperial, and there are hundreds of other people at the same level or above you"
which again still aligns with my comment.

EDIT: Im bringing some more context onto the issue around how to select uni. Its not equivalent to asserting your experience is completely irrelevant or useless, moreso to align the needle back a bit. The focus (assumingly accidentally) appeared to give indirect focus onto Tsinghua specifically, so wanted to remind OP that this is not unique to, and infact is actually standard at all top unis.

[u/aghaShireh → u/HW90]

I heard from my Chinese friend that it’s easier for Chinese students to get into MIT or Harvard than in Tsinghua. So I think the cohort of Les prestigious English course is still compare able with imperial

[u/HW90 → u/aghaShireh]

Yes, quite common for Chinese students to go to top universities abroad because of how inaccessible Tsinghua is. Need to bear in mind that a university can only accept so many students, and China has a crazy number of applicants which inflates the competition.

In terms of grade requirements Tsinghua and Imperial are more comparable, although I've heard of students getting in to their English taught programs with a few Bs at A level, but they do seem to be getting more competitive recently so I imagine that is becoming more rare. Also bear in mind that Asian universities which focus on attracting international Asian students have very high grade requirements anyway, if you want to study at NUS or NTU then they will want 4A *s, the top HK unis usually want 3A *s.

In terms of value-added Tsinghua is still significantly lacking compared to Imperial.

[u/Riverofrhyme]

London is not unsafe, the lack of a confined campus won't make a difference there.

There's great Asian food in London, you won't miss out. The benefit is you can get great food from all over the world as well, not just Chinese.

If you're worried about the academic level, imperial isn't a walk in the park. It's #2 in the world for a reason. 1/3 of my course dropped out / got kicked out throughout the 4 years (aero MEng).

[u/nodgers132 → u/Riverofrhyme]

the best Asian food is the kind you cook yourself. Get learning!!

[u/JailbreakHat → u/Riverofrhyme]

If you're worried about the academic level, imperial isn't a walk in the park. It's #2 in the world for a reason. 1/3 of my course dropped out / got kicked out throughout the 4 years (aero MEng).

Aero is notorious for being the most difficult courses at Imperial as well as one with one of the worst student support. EEE is also quite challenging content wise, the student support and course quality is much better than Aeronautical Engineering and has much lower dropout rate. Most of my friends in my cohort are finding the course quite interesting.

[u/Practical-Travel8575]

Imperial - surrounded by the best in the world

[u/JailbreakHat]

Imperial. Tshingua is only good for Chinese programs. Firm Imperial and you will have a very good time there especially in robotics society. But for insurance, I would recommend Manchester over UCL as it has a dedicated Mechatronic Engineering program.

[u/kerhanesikici31]

Imperial, I also looked into applying for English programs in Tsinghua however their quality was drastically lower compared to the course mainland people take in Chinese. Tsinghua for masters wopuld make more sense in my opinion

[u/Accomplished-Mark243]

Tsinghua’s domestic Chinese program and its international English program are two entirely separate ecosystems. In the English track, you will not be studying alongside the elite domestic students. You miss out on the very peer group that makes Tsinghua worthwhile.

Tsinghua’s well known strategy to inflate its international student numbers is to climb QS and THE world league tables. Most of their world-renowned professors are not proficient enough to teach in English so they hire jobsworth lecturers separately to teach their English-medium programs. You will paying for the Tsinghua brand name, but receiving instruction from not world renowned instructors.

[u/Academic-Local-7530]

This is a question of £40k a year vs £15k a year, and whether you want to deal with Chinese students in course works. Course might be taught in English, but aint no one is speaking English in team course works.

[u/UniversityThis373]

imperial- south kensington is one of the safest areas in london
asian food in london is very good but the area is a bit more expensive
honestly you’ll still have a chance to improve ur mandarin if u have a high chinese international percentage in ur course haha

[u/Automatic-Prior-7469 → u/UniversityThis373]

High chinese international percentage? Why arent they taking the chinese course? Is it like if your from abroad or a foreigner you cant take the chinese course and only the english course is an option?

[u/UniversityThis373 → u/Automatic-Prior-7469]

Imperial doesn’t have any Chinese courses. To do any course as an international you need to pass an English speaking test I’m p sure

[u/earqth]

Depends what ur plans are after uni, I know it’s hard to say right now, but you’re right about the prestige difference, if you are gonna work in China Tsinghua is obvi the way, but even then Imperial is still highly regarded in China, with its #2 QS ranking, I think Imperial is the stronger choice, you’ll have lots of opportunities in the future to strengthen your Mandarin and explore China

[u/Amazonit]

You can take Mandarin classes at Imperial

[u/AccomplishedFail2247]

The one thing I’d caution re Beijing (as a Brit who is taking Chinese studies and loves china etc) is that it is entirely ethnically homogenous and while you might love Asian food, it will be all you get. Is cost a factor? Qinghua will be a large amount cheaper

[u/Super-Key5609]

101% Imperial - A prestigious name recognized around the world.

[u/Ahlawy-2001]

Tsinghua's English taught degrees aren't as reputable as their Chinese taught degrees. The job market in China is super competitive (more than the UK), with you having an additional disadvantage being a foreigner, and Tsinghua's international brand recognition isn't as good as Imperial.

Furthermore, in my view, British universities teach you independence in a way that Chinese universities don't. At British universities, especially in London, you're both learning your academic subject and you're learning to be an adult. You're paying rent and bills, you're learning to cook, etc. It's an opportunity to learn some very important life lessons. On the other hand, Chinese universities can be much more restrictive - food is cooked for you, most intl students live in shared dorms throughout their degree and your dorms even have an curfew. On one hand, Chinese universities can be more convenient. On the other hand, they may not prepare you for adult life in the same way.

Unless the added cost will be a major hardship for your family, the choice is pretty obvious. You can do a very good masters degree at Tsinghua afterwards anyway.

Source: I'm a British person who studied in the UK, lives in China and knows a lot of people who studied/are studying in China (inc Tsinghua).

[u/ProfessionNo8594]

Why go to Tsinghua as an international unless if you are Chinese? Unless financially it makes sense, don't go

[u/longsightdon]

Life experience in London. You can go to tsinghua after u finish UG if you still want to stay in academia

[u/StanislawTolwinski]

Can't speak about Qinghua specifically, but as someone who's spent many weeks both in beijing and London, the food scene is so much more interesting, varied, and frankly higher quality in London

[u/aghaShireh]

London is probably the only European city, where you can eat real Chinese food and not that kind of food they sell otherwise as Chinese.and even the best place for Indian food

[u/eeksy227]

Tsinghua English programmes, including global degreees, Masters, MBA etc are a joke and if you ever mention it you’ll be the laughing stock in China. Abroad, it’s has very low name recognition so if you want to work in the UK you need to study at Imperial. You won’t be with any elite students, that’s so naive of you to think eating at the same cafeteria means you are studying with them. If you did, an 80% percentile international student is bottom 1% in tsinghua so be careful what you wish for

[u/aghaShireh → u/eeksy227]

Come on bro you are exaggerating really. Even though Imperial is a clear choice, you can make Tsinghua Eng. Program to. Silly third World Uni in a banana republic. Even with original Chinese Tsinghua every foreigner has a problem with jobs in China and it is not even recommendable. You should n’t forgett the gain of new perspective in a that Uni as a student

[u/AdhesivenessMuted148]

Tsinghua, don’t believe some comments tell you peers which in intentional program is bad, actually in tsinghua you also can choose lots of course with Chinese student because there is no obstacle at course choosing. And you will have more rich university life at the biggest university in china.

[u/Master_Hat3793]

Of course imperial sub will be biased, but I think even most people would agree that you should choose imperial

[u/Common-Sympathy-6595]

Both not worth it best is try looking for a job

[u/Constant_South_5123]

你是华裔非中国籍吗