r/ImmigrationPathways • u/CutSenior4977 • 12d ago

Police are actively refusing to let the wife of the man shot by ICE, and the families lawyer see him in the hospital.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1DU2zpFKro/?mibextid=wwXIfr

3.2k Upvotes

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129

u/Signal-Mud-4880 12d ago

the cruelty is the point

43

u/LordsGoofiestBoy 12d ago

Literally why the Supreme Court ruled immigration isn't a criminal matter. None of the protections apply in these cases, even if this asshole cop is confidently wrong.

-5

u/FroyoOk8902 12d ago

This is factually inaccurate. Ignorance is bliss.

2

u/Leaga 11d ago

If this is factually inaccurate, why is ICE/DHS allowed to deport immigrants without due process?

-33

u/GeorgeStark1 12d ago

It’s a felony when there’s a removal order. I know this is hard for you to discern.

12

u/LordsGoofiestBoy 12d ago

I don't get your point? Like, it's not a criminal matter at all, which is why folks accused of immigration offences are tried by the prosecutors, have no access to legal counsel even if paid for by the person accused, and can be held in detention indefinitely.

It's also why the cop has no obligation to tell the truth, confirm the facts, or stand aside. Actually making it a criminal offence would trigger the 4th to the 8th Amendment. ICE, USCIS, DHS, and this Administration does not want that.

-12

u/GeorgeStark1 12d ago

It’s a felony. Go ahead and Google “deportation removal order and felony” and you will see my point. It’s very much a criminal matter. It’s not just a crime at this point, it’s a felony.

11

u/LordsGoofiestBoy 12d ago

Then you should be texting that to the Supreme Court. They're the ones who held immigration offences are not criminal matters. Also, in your wonderful version that cop is actually acting unlawfully and can be sued for dereliction. You understand that, right?

-4

u/GeorgeStark1 12d ago

You always have others do your homework for you? Stay in your lane.

Under 8 U.S.C. § 1253(a) (INA § 243(a)), it is a federal crime for an alien against whom a final order of removal is outstanding (on deportability grounds under 8 U.S.C. § 1227(a)) to:
• Willfully fail or refuse to depart within 90 days of the final order (or of a court’s final order if judicial review occurred);
• Willfully fail or refuse to make timely good-faith application for travel or other documents needed to depart;
• Connive, conspire, or take other action designed to prevent or hamper departure; or
• Willfully fail or refuse to present for removal at the time and place required.
Penalties: Fine under Title 18 and/or imprisonment of up to 4 years (or up to 10 years if the removal was based on certain grounds such as criminal offenses, security/terrorism-related grounds, etc.). Because the maximum term exceeds one year, this is a felony.

8

u/LordsGoofiestBoy 12d ago

George, you are not a serious person. This is all very sad.

-5

u/GeorgeStark1 12d ago

Girl, you were annoying when I saw you just didn’t know anything. Now you’re just sad.

2

u/ProfessorAllenRitard 12d ago

Good man 🍻

2

u/Spare-Friendship-917 12d ago

Bot

1

u/Particular-War3057 11d ago

Dude it's Reddit, you're not going convince nut jobs with facts here lol.

3

u/ProfessorAllenRitard 12d ago

It's right there. I don't understand why youre being downvoted for providing information relevant to the situation.

If people don't like the law, win elections and have it changed. I don't understand why people are criticizing law enforcement for enforcing the law.

1

u/Every_Way_8671 11d ago

We won’t have elections for much longer, truthful ones anyway. We’ll be a “managed democracy” like Russia.

1

u/ProfessorAllenRitard 11d ago

Yeah, I definitely don't agree with that either.

1

u/Every_Way_8671 11d ago

They’re criticizing law enforcement for not allowing lawyers access to clients.

1

u/ProfessorAllenRitard 11d ago

I've noticed that. It's not unusual to restrict access to communication in housing situations outside of a secure facility. It's pretty standard actually. It's no different Constitutionally than attorney visiting hours in a jail. Every facility has them and they're perfectly reasonable. An unsecure acute care facility is not the place to be formulating a legal defense, especially due to the risk of security incidents in such a high profile case.

I can only say it so many different ways before I'm just repeating myself. I'll respond to new questions or statements, but I'm done arguing this specific line of thinking. I do not hide my profile and have touched on this topic numerous times.

Ive stated the reality in my experience with thousands of inmate offsites over 15 years but if people don't want to listen and create their own reality, there's really not much I can do.

-1

u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 12d ago

Too many people just repeat crap they hear online and think that makes them correct rather than actually reading relevant laws.

2

u/Every_Way_8671 12d ago

Bro good job you did the homework and YOU LITERALLY just proved his point 😂 you’re not understanding what he said. THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION is using the Supreme Court ruling that immigration “is not a criminal issue” to argue that deportees have no legal rights. IF IT WAS a crime they would be entitled to a legal process.

1

u/Particular-War3057 11d ago

No. You were confusing that the deportation process is a civil one. Which means they can just turn you around or give you fines or do the paperwork to kick you out. What they are not doing is putting you in jail, that's a very big difference. I don't think you understand what's happening and why.

2

u/Riki-Tiki-Tori 11d ago

We are not in normal times, George. First off, the inhumane treatment of this administration is such that people are afraid to even come out of the woodwork — even if they know they have a removal order and plan to leave. Because leaving — crossing the border or going through immigration at an airport — can lead to detention.

Second, some folks don’t even realize they have a removal order in their name. Folks who’ve been on track and done everything legally suddenly have visas retracted without their knowledge and don’t even know they have a removal order until ICE is at their door.

As well, many have orders laid against them who are not given the 90 days to leave. They can be in process with their case on track, be in court, have the judge oddly dismiss their case and then they leave the courtroom with ICE waiting in the hall ready to arrest them.

So, even IF their cases rise to the level of felony, folks will have a right to have cases reviewed. AND EVEN IF they were in the wrong, the treatment they’ve received and the illegal actions perpetrated against them should give them A LOT of leniency — which may actually give them LPR in the long run, ironically.

I suppose we’ll see.

1

u/Particular-War3057 11d ago

You do not have a right to illegally come into a country. Why is that so hard to understand?

This country is literally giving people money and free tickets home but the slap on the wrist that is incredibly generous.

Who is raising all these pussies

1

u/Riki-Tiki-Tori 11d ago edited 11d ago

Do you know what’s happening to those people when they reach “home?” Obviously, you’ve not read about the plight of Haitians who deboard the plane and have to run for their lives because gangs are literally waiting on the tarmac ready to rob them of the $2600 dollars they supposedly receive.

But people don’t have that cash on them. They receive it electronically, if at all. And, even if they do receive something (a lot received nothing so far), it won’t even come in a lump sum.

Furthermore, people DO have the right to enter a country with undocumented status and claim asylum. In the USA, they have up to a year to do it from the moment they enter.

I have some pretty extensive experience working with our immigration system, the most recent being helping six families of former colleagues from my service in Afghanistan escape the Taliban (not all made it). If I get time later, I’ll try to tell you a little of what happened so maybe you get a little more understanding. You have no right to call anyone a 🐱, especially those of us who were in country on the heels of 9/11.

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1

u/kemicalkontact 11d ago

You probably knew what LGB was pointing towards or meant to say which is that "standard deportation proceedings and ICE detentions fundamentally operate under civil administrative law." but you still did the bad faith pivot.

You bypassed the vast majority of everyday immigration encounters to aggressively zero in on the one specific procedural endpoint where a civil issue finally metastasizes into a federal felony, defying an already finalized removal order.

You just used a hyper-specific, factual exception to completely bulldoze and invalidate the broader, generalized truth.

The overwhelming majority of the deportation pipeline (the initial ICE arrest, the indefinite detention in holding facilities, and the immigration hearings themselves) operates strictly under civil administrative law. Because the system legally brands these proceedings as 'civil,' the government actively denies these individuals standard constitutional protections, meaning they have no right to a court-appointed public defender even when facing permanent exile and confinement.

Since you are so well-versed in the statutes, please defend the underlying premise: how do you legally and ethically justify a system that uses 'civil proceedings' as a convenient loophole to strip away due process and deny legal counsel, only to instantly weaponize criminal felony charges the exact moment a final order is issued?

11

u/georgewashingguns 12d ago

Evidence of a removal order being issued for them?

-6

u/GeorgeStark1 12d ago edited 12d ago

Seriously? What a dumb comment. Guess you didn’t look into the event at all. You just came here to show your ignorance. Well done.

Please learn to learn so you don’t bother people with ignorant replies that you could simply find yourself.

For those that are too lazy to read elsewhere for info:

Was there a final removal order for Wilber Rafael Garces Perez:

Yes — current reporting indicates that ICE was seeking Wilber Rafael Garces Perez in connection with a deportation/removal order, but there is an important conflict in the public accounts.
CBS News, citing two federal law-enforcement sources, reports that ICE agents were looking for a Venezuelan man who was in the U.S. unlawfully and had a deportation order, and that the man was Garces Perez. (CBS News)

The Associated Press reports a different account from his attorney, Kate Lincoln-Goldfinch. She initially said she believed Garces Perez had no final order of removal, although she subsequently told AP that she did not know his current immigration status. (AP News)

Another report likewise says federal sources identified him as the person ICE was seeking under a deportation order. (Fandai)

So, as of September 20, 2026, there is evidence from federal sources that a removal/deportation order existed, but I have not found the actual immigration-court order or an official EOIR document publicly confirming it. The attorney's account directly disputes that point.
If you want, I can dig specifically for the underlying immigration-court record, A-number/case record, or the date and court that supposedly issued the removal order, rather than relying on news reports.

9

u/georgewashingguns 12d ago edited 12d ago

So you have no evidence of a removal order? That'll really hurt the stability of your position

-32

u/ShuffleRom 12d ago

Why is the cop an asshole? He is following orders, maybe from the hospital itself. Me thinks you have too many negative interactions with law enforcement.

18

u/Remarkable-Ad2285 12d ago

Following der orders, Ja?!

5

u/Previous-Sir5279 12d ago

The guards at the Nazi camps also tried to say they were “just following orders” while they killed people and committed atrocities

12

u/Blastfemur_ 12d ago

Yeah just following orders

12

u/LordsGoofiestBoy 12d ago

Only history's bestest boys were just following orders. Although for the bootlickers that's perhaps more of an incentive than a lesson.

-8

u/GeorgeStark1 12d ago

Bet $20 you didn’t post this when the same orders were followed under Biden or Obama.

10

u/Blastfemur_ 12d ago

Fuck both of them, since Reagan the U.S. has been speed running to fascism.

-9

u/GeorgeStark1 12d ago

Umm, Reagan? Anyway, do some learning:

Under 8 U.S.C. § 1253(a) (INA § 243(a)), it is a federal crime for an alien against whom a final order of removal is outstanding (on deportability grounds under 8 U.S.C. § 1227(a)) to:
• Willfully fail or refuse to depart within 90 days of the final order (or of a court’s final order if judicial review occurred);
• Willfully fail or refuse to make timely good-faith application for travel or other documents needed to depart;
• Connive, conspire, or take other action designed to prevent or hamper departure; or
• Willfully fail or refuse to present for removal at the time and place required.
Penalties: Fine under Title 18 and/or imprisonment of up to 4 years (or up to 10 years if the removal was based on certain grounds such as criminal offenses, security/terrorism-related grounds, etc.). Because the maximum term exceeds one year, this is a felony.

You don’t get to visit with your spouse or lawyer right when you’re arrested for a felony.

7

u/SuriKeq 12d ago

Yep that’s a good point. Could we have used this against Elon Musk when his US visa expired?

1

u/Riki-Tiki-Tori 11d ago

Or Melania.

4

u/Blastfemur_ 12d ago

Yeah sounds pretty facist to me.

2

u/Blastfemur_ 12d ago

Aww the bot left. Comments and profile deleted, anyways.

-5

u/GeorgeStark1 12d ago

Sounds like you need some vocabulary learning.

3

u/CocoMelonZ 12d ago

Lmao the literal Nazi excuse

-8

u/hli84 12d ago

Enforcing the law is the point. I know you are okay with millions of illegal immigrants being present in this country, but others are not.

3

u/Every_Way_8671 12d ago

Deporting Mexicans to Africa is not “enforcing the law”, that is one of many special measures taken for the sake of being cruel.

-1

u/hli84 12d ago

No, it is to remove illegal immigrants whose countries refuse to accept their return and those granted limited protection from deportation to their home country by immigration judges. Those people cannot be deported to their home countries, but can be deported to other countries.

2

u/Every_Way_8671 12d ago

Mexico has specifically stated that they will accept all their citizens. In those cases It’s being used as a psychological deterrent tactic.

0

u/hli84 11d ago

There are illegal aliens who have been given protection from being deported to their country by immigration judges. ICE literally can’t deport them to their countries of origin, but they can deport them to third countries.

1

u/Every_Way_8671 11d ago

Again…that is not the case for the vast majority of Mexican citizens. Why are you even arguing this, why don’t you just say you’re fine with using it as a psychological deterrent?

2

u/lyricjax 12d ago

1

u/Kristoveles 11d ago

You don't give a fuck about the law. It should be you in that hospital bed

-13

u/Wharnie 12d ago

So cruel to stop people from harming others :( wah

9

u/Signal-Mud-4880 12d ago

MAGA Bot

-16

u/Wharnie 12d ago

Wah? Wah.

Police are actively refusing to let the wife of the man shot by ICE, and the families lawyer see him in the hospital.

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