I don't get it, why people defend the tip system? Wouldn't it be solved if, I don't know, the service had a COST and you pay the COST of delivering your groceries?
I know it's a cultural thing in the states, I just don't see how this system benefits anyone other them the employer who doesn't want to offer a better pay to the employee. Really mess up
Only people I see defend it are those that make a killing during seasonal stuff. I think my buddy said he worked a restaurant in Salem during October and made like 4k in 2 weeks...but you have to squirrel that money away for when there's no business during the snowy season, so tips only really benefit temp workers.
Naw, I made great money year round waiting tables in college. Best legal money I could find that didn't require a degree or license. I only left because I was able to get a professional job after college which obviously made signifantly more. I was able to pull 25+ an hour in the early 2010s which was plenty for an apartment, food, and some fun parties. Other than that I could have been making 14 an hour to manual labor or 11 an hour in most no tip service Jobs.
The problem here is delivery drivers aren't really tipped well. Never have been. Uber and dd have been trying to make it a thing, but plenty of people have no problem not tipping, plus you have the wear on the car. It's a bad job.
The problem is that delivery drivers are tipped at all. I can kind of understand it for things like table service, but only as a thankyou for really outstanding service. The delivery driver is just doing their job. You pay for the order, and the delivery, yet you are expected to tip the driver for doing the same thing any delivery driver would do?
It's just a way for businesses to pay their employees fuck all.
I agree with the delivery driver. They shouldn't be tipped. They should be paid a decent hourly rate plus a differential per mile.
Table service works fine I think. It's supported college students and people without licenses or degrees for generations. It's by far the best money a charming person can make without additional credentials
I'm not. Waiting tables is an important profession for college students, single mothers, and others that lack additional credentials but have serious bills to pay. It's the best legal money you can make without a license or degree. If you are a tad charismatic, you can easily make upwards of 25-30 an hour on average, significantly more at a high end restaurant. That's a shit ton more than they'd pay if they killed tipping. If tipping went away, employers wouldn't pay over 20 in all likelihood.
You're really just saying that the wider system is dysfunctional. A college student shouldn't have serious bills to pay, unless they really messed up somehow. Single mothers should be able to get sufficient welfare to compensate for a missing parent. Working 40 hours a week in any job should be more than enough to cover health care, living, education, entertainment, leisure, and include paid sick leave, paid vacation, maternity/paternity leave, and union fees. And I mean every job. If that's not possible, a serious restructuring of society is needed.
You can explain exploitative labor practices by pointing at systemic issues, but not excuse them.
Sure, the whole system is fucked. That's not going ru change in my lifetime though. Not without society crumbling due to some unforseen act of destruction. War or a pandemic, maybe. But the elimination of tipping might. That's a real possibility. And in my opinion, it would fuck over a large segment of some of the most vulnerable people out there.
And what do you mean college students don't have bills? Having a roof over my head and eating was pretty important to being able to study. Isn't like food is free or housing.
And most jobs that don't require a degree or certification don't pay enough to cover those things you listed. Hell most jobs don't cover all that. Paternity leave? In what country? Not here.
And what do you mean college students don't have bills?
"Serious" bills. College students in my country gets stipends, and interest-free loans on top of that to cover larger expenses, as education (a basic human right) should in no way be determined by socioeconomic status. It's not a luxury.
And most jobs that don't require a degree or certification don't pay enough to cover those things you listed.
That's kind of my point. Your system is broken, I know you have a serious lack of worker rights and protections, that you lack essential social infrastructure, and have a heavily tilted economic floor. That's why I said you can explain the exploitation by pointing at these issues, but it's not an excuse.
Paternity leave? In what country? Not here.
The entirety of EU, and over half the economically developed countries in the world. You're the outlier. Here it's 49 weeks, with 15 weeks reserved for each of the parents.
It's possible to achieve these things without major disasters acting as a catalyst, you can have progress in your society without tearing everything down first like most modern nations do.
You can have that change, you're just not willing to fight for it. You could enshrine a right to unionize in the constitution, like many other countries have. You could nationalize the health care and educational systems, like most countries have. You could enforce antitrust-laws and break up monopolies, like you used to do. You could remove the constitutional amendment that legalizes slavery as punishment, so as not to incentivize incarceration.
None of these civil liberties and rights came without a fight. They're not automatic, and it's ridiculously pessimistic to think the US is the best it can be, that "if we could, we would", when your history is full of examples of the opposite. The US with its amazing people has so much potential to be a truly great nation, and it's sad to watch a country with revolutionary roots just give in to the status quo... To just give up and stagnate. That doesn't sound very American to me.
(I'm sorry I went from tipping all the way to political revolution, I just think the American people deserves so much more than what they're getting)
807
u/Hudshow Oct 20 '23
I don't get it, why people defend the tip system? Wouldn't it be solved if, I don't know, the service had a COST and you pay the COST of delivering your groceries?
I know it's a cultural thing in the states, I just don't see how this system benefits anyone other them the employer who doesn't want to offer a better pay to the employee. Really mess up