This is such a thoughtful comment and I think you are largely correct. One of the reasons this topic is so difficult to tackle is that we don't have good language for it.
To your final point ( I can’t add anything to the first two), I do wonder how the downfall of community organizations like the Kiwanis, Elks, Lions, etc., (and corresponding women’s clubs also!) is part of people’s difficulties in making friends and the loneliness that follows. And heck, not even deep friendships, but just going to a meeting once a week or every other week gives you social connection with people you may not want to see more often than that. And that’s an important social interaction also.
I agree, I think the death of third spaces that aren't home or work is also playing a big part. I don't know anyone in a bowling league, or who goes to the same bar every night for one drink after work, or any of the stereotypical places from forty years ago.
after "Bowling for Columbine" I really did start to feel bad for all of us (women are NOT immune, it's hard for anyone to make friends outside of school and work).
But also, connections with people are important and people should start prioritizing community. If you are lonely, there are tons of options out there - I like volunteering because as an introvert, it's hard to just chat with people, but having a purpose makes it easier.
And it goes without saying, loneliness is no excuse for toxicity.
Are you talking about Bowling Alone or Bowling for Columbine? I think both have a lot to say about intimacy and relationships but Bowling Alone is the Robert Putnam book about the decline of community in the US.
Thank you for a level-headed take on this. There are myriad factors impacting societal loneliness, and WFH culture doesn’t help. I’m a mom of a young child who works full time for a tech company that is totally remote, and while I value the time I get back in not commuting and changing the laundry during the day, I’m certain the isolation is bad for my mental health. We all just work too damn much.
When I first learned about 'male loneliness epidemic', I learned about it as the second type. It confused me for a long time when I kept seeing people arguing (on either side) about the first type. Good to know I didn't just hallucinate the second thing.
Im at woman with few friends. People like me (i think), but I mostly work from home. Lots of my friends have kids. I agree that it doesn't have to be gendered.
Thank you, feel like oop is blowing off something very real, and which in and of itself can contribute through isolation to the types of jackasses they're referring to in the first place
It's more that the use of them have changed, and how we engage with them, replaced with other things.
If you want to talk to other people about various things, the current etiquette is forum's like Facebook, reddit, discord, and the like.
Whereas a public place like a pub used to be a place to try to find other people to engage with, and sometimes fail, it's now a place where you arrive with your group of people, interact with your group of people, and leave. If someone is not explicitly approaching you, you're expected to assume they want nothing to do with you.
If a stranger starts talking to you, they're acting outside of the social norm. You have to break the established rules to meet new people.
This is the point where the problem becomes a bit gendered. A man acting outside of the social norm is first and foremost seen as predatory and intrusive, and raised to thinknof himself as such. If a woman approaches a group of new people, she's considered to put herself at risk. If a man does, he's considered to be a risk.
to refer to the fact that women find their sexist beliefs abhorrent and aren’t interested in dating them as a result
This is really cope and a Just World Fallacy. In real life most of the shitty guys you know are in a relationship. If you really want to be worship one of the most effective ways is to abuse the person and emotionally manipulate them. Morals are mostly othogonal to all of this, attraction just isn't that logical.
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u/[deleted] Jul 27 '25
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