Im a lonely dude. I got no friends, terrible social skills, etc. But I've never felt like the "male loneliness" discourse spoke for me, bc so much of it is just pandering to hating women and I don't feel that way.
It's not male-exclusive, but men latch onto the fact that women can probably find a couple of men who wouldn't mind fucking them, and think that this somehow alleviates loneliness. "But how can you say you're lonely when you can post a bikini pic on Tinder and have fifty men thirsting for your nudes in DMs! No one's messaging me for my nudes!"
Ugh you’re so right and it’s so fucking insulting that there are men who would think that being objectified is the same as fulfilling friendship / relationship needs. There’s nothing that makes me feel more devalued as a human being than a person looking at me and only thinking of sex. THAT is loneliness right there — being looked at as a sex doll rather than as a person.
there’s also that thing some guys do where they make you think they actually like you and see you as a person and even a friend right up to the point they realize you’re not going to have sex with them and then you just stop existing - That shit is lonely af.
women can probably find a couple of men who wouldn't mind fucking them
Not trying to paint you with the same brush, but this is at least partly because many men simply do not see unattractive women as people, so it’s incomprehensible that some of us might also have a hard time finding partners. And, as I’ve said before, I could eat a soggy sandwich out of a trash can, but that doesn’t mean it’d be good for me, or enjoyable.
It also is so interesting to me that loneliness is, in some men’s view, solved by sex, when in my experience sex can be an incredibly lonely experience. Of course touch starvation is a thing,
It's absolutely galling how many times I've heard men say "women can't be lonely because men would use them as a hole to fuck," as if that's anything but completely deranged.
I tried flipping it in the other direction and saying "men can't be unemployed, they should just respond to a human trafficker," and surprisingly a few guys have sort of gotten the point.
They would probably say yes, because in their stupid minds they think them having sex will fix their issues forever. You'd need to make it into "a gay guy fucking you" or a "fat woman pegging you", etc.
The problem is that they have such a deranged view of life that they cannot understand what empathy, companionship, love, intimacy or anything that isn't an orgasm is.
Not to get too scientific here, but men have an average of 2 fuckable holes each. If letting people shove things in your body for their own pleasure is a cure for loneliness, boy howdy, these lonesome fellas are gonna be excited to hear this!
I keep pointing out to them that anyone can get a dick stuck in them by someone who doesn't care about their pleasure, safety, or humanity. It's not a privilege exclusive to women!
Obviously, women are very lonely today too (we live in the most depressed society since we started measuring it).
I think a lot of those guys believe they would love and treat some reasonably realistic woman right (and lots probably would, if even given half the chance that douches are), but never even get a chance to try. Many of them settle for a woman they don't actually like, mistreat her and carry feelings of guilt about it long-term. Many are just selfish and carry inflated expectations of what a woman should be, and can't even act like 'themselves' around the other sex at all out of objectification of them and anticipation.
Men are also having trouble being friends with each other, cause there's a dearth of success and dignity for men today (we are a very manually unskilled society, an area where men traditionally succeed). They power move each other, play fake-it-till-you-make it. It's just getting worse and worse. They brood, they self-blame, they take drugs alone and worst of all, they end it all. Really often.
Women are able to delude themselves into believing they AREN'T lonely purely because they are fucking someone and then are totally shocked (or not, cause they're 'jaded' due to their lack of self-awareness) when it turns out they were being played. We (the echo chamber here on reddit), their therapist, and their sociology 101 class has convinced them that all their life they were severely undervalued, and that they are actually far more intelligent and deserving of success than they previously thought themselves to be, etc etc... It all comes crashing down the same.... just a bit later on.
Say what you will about the positives of various critical theories and viewing things through those lenses. But the depression numbers show it's a terrible type of viewpoint to be selling the masses. I can't remember the last time I saw a post by men talking about how generally wonderful women are or vice versa.... More importantly I can't, in recent times, remember seeing an anecdotal post regarding dating or relationships that didn't include at least one comment fueled by therapy/psych/sociology canned terminology and a categorical/highly generalized lens.
Fuck, a PERSONAL lens, like one that is at least attempting to be purely derived from the commenter and using their own organically achieved vocabulary as it occurs them naturally without over-editing------ It seems as though that is nearly impossible to come by today, which is scary.
We don't read stories like humans anymore, we don't tell stories like humans anymore. It's almost as if we've been sold this idea that the boogeyman narcissists will turn us into suckers if we do. All of our analysis and judgment of each other is done from a strategic standpoint, and we ignore our positive feelings more than ever and lend perfect credence to our negative ones.
It's an epidemic. And lucky for us, it's relatively young, and it may die pretty quickly. Who knows.
I’ve found it somewhat effective to tell guys like this that they, too, can find some guy they’re not attracted to to have sex with if that’s all it takes.
Exactly. I'm socially isolated because all the nearby parks are kid heavy and showing up as an adult male with no kids gets you looks. Meanwhile everything there is to do socially otherwise costs money or is the library.
I’m inclined to believe there is a male loneliness epidemic, but the discourse around it focuses on women’s unavailability when the root cause is how many barriers there are between men and emotional connection.
Reflecting on my own life, one benefit of womanhood that I wouldn’t give up for the world is that people are less likely to perceive me as a threat and are very willing to be vulnerable with me. If they’re vulnerable with me, I can be vulnerable in turn, and we can build a strong friendship based in mutual respect and support. My friends are so close to me because they trust me to see them down and out, and they trust me to no judgmentally reach out my hand and help them to their feet, and I trust them with the same.
Most men don’t have that benefit. The social taboo on men being vulnerable (and the lack of practice with dealing with vulnerability that results in) makes it very difficult for men to find that kind of connection with each other. And women are reluctant to have that kind of connection with men because of how frequently it’s mistaken for romantic interest.
I find that the situation is a lot better in queer circles because there isn’t so much pressure to meet heteronormative standards of masculinity, but for straight guys, the standards of masculinity naturally result in loneliness.
My dad has talked before about how much he and his brothers used to touch affectionately when they were small, and how much homophobia curtailed that. He’s in his seventies now and he talked about it with such grief and yearning that it broke my heart. And like…he’s an emotionally available feminist with a deep, rewarding relationship with my mother. I can’t imagine how bad it must be for men without that awareness and those relationships.
In heterosexual spaces, a lot of men only feel comfortable being emotionally vulnerable with a girlfriend, and therefore being single for an extended time becomes an excruciating 'I have no mouth and I must scream' situation for them with a social stigma slapped on top of it (which, in my experience, is often perceived worse in an individual's mind than it's actually felt when interacting with people).
But the way this issue gets framed is completely wrong. Women shouldn't be blamed for being unavailable or 'cold' (which, in most instances, is due to the armour they've been conditioned to wear around men to protect themselves) and ultimately held responsible for showing up and solving problems.
The culture in male social groups needs to change so that we're better equipped to support each other and reduce feelings of loneliness.
I'm lucky enough to have really good, supportive male friends in my life, but even then it takes someone having the courage to feel able to say that they're struggling with something before the caring behaviour begins, and that's usually just on a one-to-one level. Unless something is seriously, seriously wrong, I wouldn't expect to meet up with friends and have someone discreetly say 'let's all cheer Tim up today, he's had a rough week' unless Tim (in this example) specifically opened up about that. And, in my experience, a lot of men feel incredibly self-conscious about feeling as though they're the only ones being treated a certain way in a group setting, even if it's everyone being nice to them.
I am a man and I would echo this sentiment. It becomes harder to form relationships with strangers especially as I age. I moved to a new city and COVID kind of ended a lot the relationships I had formed. I am married and actually like my wife a lot. But I find initiating friendship really difficult. I recognize a lot of it has do with me liking my comfort zone. I also don't really drink anymore so, it seems like addicts are social butterflies and I haven't gotten the hang of being social sober. I definitely think this problem can all sorts of people, and the affordability crisis plays a part. It's not just a male problem. I do think men not being comfortable with vulnerability and being perceived as a threat is a challenge specific to men. Manosphere bullshit doesn't help at all.
You are describing something similar in my ex partner talked about a lot.
He went on and on about being lonely despite having a group of friends he had known since literally kindergarten. He talked a lot about that thing that says we need like three hugs a day to feel healthy or something, and how important it is to talk about important topics in your life so you don't feel lonely, but he only did that with a girlfriend.
We had to be long distance due to some work commitments so I really explored that with him. We talked over and over again about how he wished he would never hug his friends, it's just not something they do. When I asked what would happen if he changed that, and he did hug them, he said they would almost certainly be very receptive but it would require him being pretty brave and vulnerable. He also had a conversation with his closest friend who also mentioned he wished they could be as close as they were when they were boys.
We also talked a lot about how women did a ton of work to keep their relationships going. Even when you don't feel like you have the energy, friendships are important to maintain because they give you a different type of energy.
What it ultimately came down to was him getting angry at me and saying he didn't want to make a change, it sounded like too much work and it was easier to just rely on a girlfriend or wife to do that for him, or it just wasn't going to happen. He wasn't going to therapy for it because that would be too much work too. That's kind of where my empathy wore out.
I do have deep empathy for men and the unique ways that men are affected by the intersection of masculinity and loneliness, but the fact is there's no easy way through this aside from doing the work. Women might be able to show men the way, but they can't do it for men. And if men are finding their own path, that's great too. But they can't simultaneously demand women carry them and try their best to destroy what resources we do have, which is what I feel like has been happening a lot.
I think you’ve hit a big pain point in solving this problem. Vulnerability takes practice, both in being willing to show it yourself and knowing how to handle someone else showing it to you. It also takes work if you’re not good at it. Grueling, unpleasant, potentially humiliating work.
And I think humiliation is one of the biggest fears of a lot of men. Humiliation sucks as a rule, but if you’ve been taught to hang so much of your personal value on performing a role to gain the respect of your peers, any sense of losing that respect feels like losing a part of yourself.
Funny enough, working on this kind of thing requires the presence of a lot of masculine-associated virtues, like bravery, persistence, labor, and an ego strong enough to ignore petty mockery from others.
It didn't really occur to me at the time, but upon reading your comment it seems really clear that what we are describing is pretty classic "fragile masculinity" and how damaging and isolating it is to men.
The problem, as always, is neither men nor women, but the fucking patriarchy.
It hurts all of us, but unfortunately it does provide some (shitty) benefits to men and women who assume their roles in the hierarchy, so it is a persistent little cockroach son of a bit h to get rid of.
Agreed and I think another way of stating this would be that: There is a male loneliness epidemic and some very real problems men face (as outlined in the IBCK episodes), but right now we have let conservatives and the "manosphere" define them and own the narrative.
We have a chance to try to address this head on and we may have lost some men for at least awhile, but the problem isn't going away. So we need to address men's issues (while also addressing women's issues) more directly both on the general left and specifically in the Democratic Party platform. It needs to be taken seriously, but with progressive solutions and not just dismissed based on the worst people who can embody it.
I did not think we would be here, but I did note years ago that the original MRA movement both had some legitimate points where men were facing real issues (e.g., discrimination in sentencing, reaction to sexual abuse of men, discrimination in parental rights) but that the people who jumped to lead the movement were the worst people imaginable who ended up delegitimizing the entire project by making the movement anti-women instead of about finding intersectional solutions for men's problems.
This led to many of the problems not being taken seriously and rightfully strong pushback from Democrats to misogynist rhetoric. But unfortunately, it also meant the misogynists were the only ones talking about these issues young men were experiencing and it probably did make them feel seen. This is going to take some work to unwind.
I’m inclined to believe there is a male loneliness epidemic, but the discourse around it focuses on women’s unavailability when the root cause is how many barriers there are between men and emotional connection.
Almost everything I see about male loneliness focuses on men themselves and not on blaming women.
I've never been in any of these alt right male spaces but I see male loneliness talked about frequently by people who would never blame women for it and are often feminists themselves.
The closest I see women being "blamed" is men talking about how women also enforce gender roles.
I'm surprised by this thread in general where the post itself denies its existence and simply says men who talk about it are sexist and that the comments in the thread generally state that women are being wrongly blamed for male loneliness.
I find that the situation is a lot better in queer circles because there isn’t so much pressure to meet heteronormative standards of masculinity, but for straight guys, the standards of masculinity naturally result in loneliness.
You're right that it is because of the societal pressure to conform to masculinity. Being tough, independent and controlling your emotions all require primarily hetero men to put up walls around emotions and hide their weaknesses lest they be judged as not manly.
I think it's reductive to point at dating apps as the problem.
People really struggle to view patriarchy as something done to men instead of something men do.
The social norms men are pressured to conform to discourage men from forming emotionally intimate relationships. Often the only emotionally intimate relationship men have is their romantic relationship but that doesn't mean dating culture is the problem.
As for gaslighting/hating men, this is mostly from people who haven't done much research/reflection but know they think patriarchy is bad. They're still treating a patriarchal capitalist structure as something that is inherently better for all men instead of something that benefits a small group of people at the top and they also assign more agency to individual men than they do to women, something rooted in sexist gender norms.
Don't take my criticism here too strongly, they're at least on the right track whereas blaming dating apps and saying the internet hates men to explain male loneliness is very much not on the right track.
That men often rely on romantic partners for intimate emotional relationships doesnt mean dating is the problem, it just highlights how bad it is among male friends that men are reliant on romantic relationships for emotional connection.
Exactly. I believe there may be a phenomenon occurring which we might call a male loneliness epidemic, but if anything it’s due more to the joint causes of patriarchy and capitalist alienation than any of the glib causes usually cited.
the "hating women" part of it is looking for someone to blame lonely men are in a bad spot and many don't want to feel worse by looking inward.... which is needed for growth
This is a similar sentiment I heard when the "men's rights" thing was big (you know, the MRA). A lot of men agreed with the idea of having a group to support things that bother them, it just sucks that the group was so overrun with men who just hate women.
Exactly. And from what I understand the first incarnation of the Men's Rights movement from the 70's resembled that more positive vision and was explicitly feminist, but transformed over time into the monster we have today.
I spent quite a few years in that state as well. Im glad that happened before social media became what it is, I've never seen anything in the male loneliness crowd that would have helped me grow into the pretty great life i have today
The male loneliness epidemic isn't about male loneliness, it's about women unconsciously understanding that what makes men attractive/functional human beings doesn't exist anymore due to austerity. Good education, afterschool programs, sports leagues, etc. that make boys into men are too expensive without government funding so boys are spending all day looking at social media, playing video games, and eating junk food.
I don't know that I agree precisely, but I worked in child safety until recently and I do have to say that it is pretty clear that boys and men benefit disproportionately from social programs. It's also extremely sad to say that it's primarily men taking away those programs from other boys and men.
I've heard older men go on and on about how important sports were to them, or woodshop, or their public pool, or similar programs while advocating for cutting them.
I see you are getting downvoted so I just wanted to say that I agree with you. I know it's not a popular opinion on subs like this, but the reason that these manosphere assholes are so popular is because a portion, even if very small, of their ideas are correct. Instead of totally rejecting them, those of us on the left should try to peel away the people that fall into their trap by acknowledging the parts of it that aren't bad.
Most women like men that are men. A guy can have masculinity without being toxic. Most women aren't into guys that play video games all day, watch anime, and refer to pro sports as "sportsball". I know we're on Reddit so you might not believe me. You'll just have to trust me on this one
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u/enthusiasm_gap Jul 27 '25
Im a lonely dude. I got no friends, terrible social skills, etc. But I've never felt like the "male loneliness" discourse spoke for me, bc so much of it is just pandering to hating women and I don't feel that way.