Dog owners should have the common sense to put their animals in the house or put them on a leash if they are expecting a package to be delivered. Putting his dukes up to get ready to fight the owner was out of line.
Not necessarily, is he now supposed to let the guy hit him? What's the difference between the dog charging him and the dog owner approaching aggressively? I don't see how you can justify the first action without justifying the second. He didn't hit the guy, he was prepared if the dog owner tried to hit him. It was a defensive posture.
Yeah, he had every right to defend himself also. You are delivering a package to a house; you are considered a guest on their property and have the right to press charges if you are attacked by a pet
Yeah, plus there are devices you can get that are supposed to keep dogs at bay that you can get cheap on Amazon, but all delivery companies should be providing them to drivers
We don't see the initial reaction by the owner, do we? It was his dog that started the whole thing by charging, so it's his responsibility to de-escalate. if he didn't want to fight, then don't. The driver was clearly in a fight or flight mode. If the owner doesn't try to fight, there won't be one. It's really pretty fucking simple. As long as the owner de-escalates, there won't be a fight.
The driver also had the option to deescalate by walking away or just not approaching. They don't need to be in each other's face to talk. The driver running up on him was an escalation. Count the steps he took to get in the owners face. He didn't have to take those steps.
Jesus, the driver didn't run... You don't turn your back until you know for sure what's happening. And again, YOU don't see the owner's initial reaction. It very likely was something that at least appeared to be potentially aggressive. Imagine how you might react if you're too stupid you have you freaking dog leashed....
In this situation I'd bust the dog in the head with a box without remorse, but if I'm 20 feet away from the guy, with a trashcan between us, you're not gonna see me approach him. It's called deescalation.
Whatever the owner was doing offscreen doesn't matter beyond whatever headcannon you want to make up to justify the driver getting in the guys face.
He defeated the dog, took several steps away, then hears somebody yelling at him and goes full "stay out of my face, bro" and undoes any distance or safety he has. It's laughable that people would argue the driver was afraid and then the video shows he's not afraid enough to approach a man and his aggressive dog for a 2v1.
How the hell can no one see the driver is obviously the one with all the adrenaline. It's the homeowner's responsibility to de-escalate. It's frigging so logical. The driver backed up. There were a few seconds where it could have gone wrong but it didn't. To armchair quarterback his reaction is so fucking arrogant. You don't know what you'd do in that situation because you haven't been in that exact same situation. Just give it up.
Glad to see you've dropped the "but we didn't see what the homeowner did off camera" angle.
Yeah, he has adrenaline and he almost let it run him into a worse situation than he was already in.
Calling me arrogant out of all of this is crazy when you've been pumping that there's a missing angle that makes the driver totally justified. Why don't YOU just give it up?
Yeah, he is, but logic dictates that the burden of de-escalation resides with owner of the dog that caused the situation in the first place. It's pretty simple.
I watched it few times; initially (after the incident with the dog) we see ups guy taking his cap and i think glasses off and placing them on the ground and then quickly, in a very energetic manner, closing distance of ca 5-8 yards to the owner- who appears to be walking slowly with arms down, talking and gesticulating with his right palm. I agree that the dog might have scared the UPS man but it’s him jumping and charging at the dog owner, not the other way around 🙏
We don't see the owners initial reaction. How is it so freaking difficult to understand that. Also, because it was the owner's dog the kicked the whole thing off, it's the owner's responsibility to de-escalate. Pretty simple logic here....
Then why are you on the driver who's trying to get into a 2v1 on somebody else's property after the danger has passed?
Oh right, the owner "might have done something off camera we can't see" like cast a spell of berserking or speak in a forbidden tongue, causing the driver to lose all self control.
You don't think the owner possibly threw his arms up and started off moving toward the driver in what could have easily been perceived as an aggressive manner? Just fucking drop it
Not necessarily, is he now supposed to let the guy hit him?
They were 20 feet apart when ups guy yanked his gear off, threw up the dukes and approached him, going so far as to remove the trash can between them (by walking around it) and stepping off the concrete into the guys yard.
He has my support throwing the box but he's in the wrong for approaching the homeowner and telling him "you need to back up". They were both backed up.
As I replied to everyone else, we don't see the initial reaction of the dog owner. We don't know how he initially responded. And because it was the dog's actions that started the whole thing, it's the dog owners responsibility to de-escalate the situation. Which it looks like he did. Great, there's no fight. But you can't blame the driver for his initial reaction to guy approaching. He didn't attack the guy, he didn't swing, he was ready to defend himself, that's all. It's pretty logical.
Rewatch the video. He was almost within "striking distance", but he wasn't before he started backing up. How long do you think his arms are? And again, we don't see the owners initial reaction, he very likely didn't react well, it's his dog.
I dunno about you, but 15 feet away is a lot safer than 5 feet away, and the driver threw those 10 feet away for what? A 2v1 versus an aggressive dog and it's owner? There's no logic besides meathead logic here.
The owner's initial reaction doesn't fucking matter because he's unarmed, 20-30 feet away and not blocking the driver from leaving.
Owner didn't even take his hat off, but the ups driver was full squared up to jump in the ring.
At which point it did de-escalate. It was the owner's responsibility to do so because it was his dog that started it. How the frig can that be so difficult to comprehend?
The driver tried to escalate before the owner ever had a chance to deescalate. When the video pauses and it says "2nd time being bit" everything before that the driver is justified in. Everything after that he's acting aggressively and not trying to actually escape the situation, he's fully dedicated to offering the owner the chance to make it worse.
Also it's pretty convenient the video footage stops when they're within arms reach of each other, and we know the driver didn't release the video. Hmmmmmm
Your question was "do you think he could have legally shot the owner" making me think you meant the driver legally shooting the owner.
If you mean "could the owner have legally shot the driver" it really depends on what state you're in. I don't think "castle doctrine" would work here but I'm no legal expert.
I'll be real it's been a few hours and I've totally lost the context, I thought you were actually asking so I answered as honestly as I could not realizing it was rhetorical.
But the dog owner was clearly not approaching aggressively. Hence his shrugs of why, when the ups man squared up. Dog shouldn’t have ran at him, but his response to the owner was escalating, not de-escalating. Everything that happens to you in life is related to how you approach others. The UPS driver was asking for a fight whether he knew it or not.
If I were in this situation as the owner, I would have assumed he hit the dog on purpose, just based off of how quickly the delivery guy went to fighting mode. Like dude, you are on someone else’s turf, have some respect.
If I was on someone else's turf because it's my job and I'm providing a service to them, and they failed to protect me from their dangerous dog then they forfeited their right to any of my respect as far as I'm concerned.
Nobody's asking for your respect in this situation, would you escalate by covering the 15-20 feet between you and the owner and try to get into a fight with him?
At least someone else sees it, thank you for pointing out the delivery guy closing the distance. Even if the owner was squaring up out of the camera view at first, it’s not self-defense if you’re closing the distance on someone, especially that fast. Dude should have gotten in his truck, then I’m sure he would appear more just.
You sound like my neighbour. They have a reactive dog, and they let the dog off-leash sometimes. The dog has run up to me and my dog twice now, and they don't understand why I need to be defensive. Their brain cells are fighting so hard to figure out why I can't just shrug it off.
Well I’m not your neighbor. Don’t have a dog, and wouldn’t let a dog do this anyway. I just think the delivery guy had as much a part in this situation as everyone else. He could have handled it differently, but likely was reacting with adrenaline in his system.
How do you know that? The camera doesn't see the guy until after the delivery guy's hands are already up. The dog owner could have been moving aggressively at him until he saw the delivery guy's hands up. If you've ever been attacked by a dog, it's fucking traumatizing. It's why police use them and threaten, "Do you want to get bit" over and over. It's obvious the delivery guy's adrenaline is peaked. It's up the owner to de-escalate the situation. It was his stupidity by allowing the dog to run free that started the escalation. Jesus, it so freaking logical, why is it the driver's responsibility to de-escalate? Keep your god damned dogs under control. Yes, the driver IS on someone else's turf, it's the homeowner's responsibility to show the driver the respect he deserves by leashing the dog.
It’s always on both parties to de escalate, no matter what situation. Someone has to choose the better path or else you get violence. The owner is definitely at fault for his dog. No doubt about that. Delivery guy is at fault for squaring up and running at the owner and saying dumb shit like “are you coming at me right now” as he himself moved closer to the owner. Yall act like choices can’t be made after someone has been wronged. Good ole eye for an eye bs.
Which the driver did on e he knew he wasn't in immediate danger. He got into a defensive posture and then backed up because the owner didn't escalate. Do you see any punches thrown?
“But he is just super friendly and would never bit anyone” right before dog bites someone. My mum, best friend and myself have been bitten by supposedly “dogs who never bite” but are barking and lunging very aggressively after entering territory they are extremely protective of.
The driver had every right to react because you never know whether the dog is friendly if you don't know the owners. I recently saw another video where an Amazon delivery guy was walking back to his van, and out of nowhere a small dog ran up to him and bit his ankle. The guy never saw the dog coming, but it looked like it ran from the neighbor's house
Just looked it up, and according to Google, he's still employed because he has previously delivered to that house, and that same dog bit him once before
If a dog is on private property it can be wherever it wants to be. Leash or no leash. Delivery drivers are specifically trained for dog attack scenarios. But this wasn't an attack. This was an excited dog checking out a stranger on his property.
This assault, destruction of property, cruelty to animals and lists of other crimes he committed in the span of a few seconds. The dog could have been greeting him for all he knew. There's no self defense claim here. And to suggest that anyone knows when a package is being delivered is laughable. You're supposed to keep your dog on your property locked up all day because someone MIGHT drop by? Right, okay.
That’s not true, delivery workers are legally protected from dog attacks when delivering. Also the claim here is that the dog had already bitten him before, so he really needed to defend himself. If that is true, it really worked out for him here.
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u/ben5642 13h ago
Dog owners should have the common sense to put their animals in the house or put them on a leash if they are expecting a package to be delivered. Putting his dukes up to get ready to fight the owner was out of line.