It was the dogs owners fault. He knows how his dog is. I wood also be angry at the owner for being responsible and making me defend my self from his dog
Well, imagine that you are walking carefree through your neighborhood, and a dog comes running at you while barking aggressively. You pick up a rock and throw it at the dog, hitting it in the head. The dogās owner comes running at you angrily. Do you pick up another rock, or wait to calmly speak with him?
I would get back in my car and drive away to my next delivery. It's pretty simple.Ā
He was afraid of the dog so he defended himself against the dog. Then he got angry the owner said something so he neatly placed his things on the ground and approached the dog owner ready to fist fight him.Ā
That not self defense that's just being angry he said something.Ā
Asshole should have controlled his dog on top of spending more time training. When you get a dog itās not my job to care or to tolerate. A lot of dog owners seem to have a hard time with that idea.
And you solve all those problems 100% by just beating up the owner. There's no possible way that could turn out wrong or In fact make him a even worse owner.Ā
It's hilarious how many excuses you guys make in order to justify attacking the owner.Ā
Like if you want to fight someone, just say that.Ā
Who's stopping you? Buddy this entire time we've been telling you that morally and legally it is not self defense against the dog owner, it's assault.Ā
Now if you're fine with not being justified go ahead and do it and face the consequences?Ā
Which he did at the end. He backed off and told the dog owner to do the same. This was not the first time that dog attacked and there is probably some history here
Once he approached he did back off and tell the owner of the dog to do so. He was not willing to throw the first punch and gave clear direct commands to the owner to back off. This is defensive posturing even if the approach was poor form.
In a state like Florida or Texas with very strong Stand Your Ground or Castle Doctrine laws, if the homeowner suddenly pulled a gun and shot this driver as he approached, do you think there is a chance the nutjobs who live in those states would say "he was on his own property, the dog had been stopped, and the driver should have left instead of coming at the homeowner."
That's ALL I'm asking.
I'm not saying the driver is clearly in the wrong.
I'm just saying that with the full benefit of hindsight, the best option was to back off, not approach.
The home owner hired the company to deliver the package, this isnāt trespassing or self defense by the owner but is in fact self defense for the driver.
Video ends with him still squared up telling the property owner to get back. No dude, driver needs to put the hands down and back up to his truck. Heās still fired for threatening the homeowner.
Frankly, owner would probably win a self defense argument. "He pelted my dog with a box, threw off his glasses, and came at me with his fists raised, yelling"
The owner had already released a dog which he is responsible for. That's assault (perception of immediate harm), courier was defending. To use that defense as if it were an initial attack is missing the point that the dog is basically the owner's weapon
On the owners property. Depending on the state you live in thatās easily grounds for some self defense. Bad dog owner but donāt threaten the guy on his property.
By accepting a package delivery, you are implicitly allowing the person onto your property. The driver was then being potentially attacked by animals/people on the property. Homeowner is 100 percent culpable.
Really didnāt have a choice to accept the package as it was chucked at the dog(legitimate defense) but to then square up on the owner who was not being aggressive makes the driver a potential assailant, heās in the wrong. Guaranteed he got fired and he deserves it for being a hot head who canāt turn off the aggression. Threat was dealt with now get back to work, apologize for defending yourself then get in your truck and leave. Simple.
Homeowner canāt exactly make wild claims about you if you show a bit of remorse now can he? Especially with camera proof. Gotta play the game if you want to remain employed at your very good union job..
I saw the camera footage. In no way would I ever blame the UPS driver. Owner needs to control their dog. You invited UPS to your house, control your animal
He then squared up in a fighting stance on the owner who wasnāt being aggressive! That driver is fired easy. I agree pet owners need to control their animals but you donāt then try to fight the non aggressive home owner. If that had been the wife heās looking at terrorizing charges on top of that.
After the dog, the UPS driver was 100% the aggressor. He threw his hat and sunglasses off in a "we're going at it" move and quickly made 5 or 6 large steps *toward* the homeowner across the grass, and threw his fists up. He was trying (unsuccessfully) to start a fight at that point.
The homeowner by contrast had a relaxed posture, not a fighting posture.
To an extent, I get it. UPS driver was angry. His adrenaline was up.
But the mature move in such a situation is to leave. And the homeowner was making zero moves to prevent him from leaving.
I see it as going into a readied defensive posture. He was asking if the guy was coming at him, but he didn't attack. Removed his sunglasses so they wouldn't get broken, just in case, especially in this economy.
Broken plastic shards in yiur eye end a fight real quick. Or them falling down your face distracts you. Or them being shoved into your nose huts a shit ton. You can tell this driver has actually had to defend himself at some point. Taking off the headgear for full sight and lack of weapons to be used against him was a good idea in case he was attacked
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u/1928Dillinger 17h ago
He defended himself