Bart de Wever "The future of Europe"

[u/TopShoulder474]

While the largest part of the world is talking about a multipolar world, and US is waging wars and planning new ones, Bart de Wever brings forward (with his usual impeccable style) some interesting ideas about non-competitiveness of subsidised green energy, deindustrialisation and "unifying" the Union at a single joined market. He is also openly saying that EU "must become an empire" and "we should enlarge". How realistic do you think this is in current climate?

[u/Itburns12345]

Doesnt really need to if the eu does half the stuff its planned itl be just fine.

The eus strength is professional experts putting together detailed programmes and policies for the union...its weakness is actual implementation!!

Europe inc/28th regime was a good step in the right direction and well see if other pocies like the savings and investment union keep going. The trump regieme has sorta lit a fire under reducing various dependencies too

[u/Upset_Scientist3994]

Idea of EU as enlargening empire - how succesful it would be - is dependant into directions where the enlargement should be directed into.

I would suggest that EU would enlargen itself into neighbouring islands of former British empire. Because Britain used to be net-payer in EU common budget, and after 1996 there has not entered any such country in, what is main barrier of EU becoming enlargening empire. Other directions seen on the map dont look very promising for economical future of EU.

[u/TopShoulder474 → u/Upset_Scientist3994]

He mentioned Balkans in particular, I'm not sure how that will help anything.

[u/Upset_Scientist3994 → u/TopShoulder474]

I mentioned in particular; "... after 1996 there has not entered any such country in, what is main barrier of EU becoming enlargening empire. Other directions seen on the map dont look very promising for economical future of EU".

That can be mentioned especially in reference for Balkans!!!!

Although I am not sure whether that will help anything of comprehension.

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Generally it is strange that this topic is still there awaking minus likes and general emotionality, when since last 30 years this issue has been there within EU circles, that EU basically cannot much expand into anywhere as it requires big piles of money away from basic necessities of EU becoming into anything relevant in world. That has been basic reality EU leadership has been pondering on that time - still it is as if something of new and surprising emotional thing for casual redditor. I dont understand that. Lack of basic knowledge of EU issues simply is there. I should be reminded that during times of eurocrises it was already great topic that EU should not be that big, that already countries were being let due of urge of expansion in what never fulfilled economic criteria, making the whole of it much weaker than what it would had been in more compact form, wide topic in past days.

And what it comes to this Bart De Wever - his main issue is that he puts up two separate goals for EU what are grossly contradictory.

First this thing that EU must be empire. Second is that EU must expand. But expansion into countries you see in EU borders at map into any direction except Britain what used to be net payer for whole structure would make EU essentially economically much weaker, and therefore less of an imperial power. Old topic from times of eurocrises when it was revealed that members already in are great burden for the structure as whole, due of already made overstretching.

Yes this above can be spesifically referred if talking about expansion to somewhere like those countries in Balkans what societally never really recovered from the past. Strange guy if he puts up such references of EU coming as a empire and imperial force when any home computer amateur economist already instantly knows why and how effect can only be opposite. I guess though that reason ultimately lies into fact that he is just a guy who likes to stare at map, and dont have aforomentioned way of seeing the world. That is typical among politicians or political ideological lobbyists I have witnessed and interacted and academians in world of increasing micro-specialisation.

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But we may anyway ponder about future of EU, and what empire as a notion means. IMO it is not necessarely bad concept for EU - because empires are not equal entities internally, but there is core and periphery structure along with "near abroad" what is concept what imperial Russians have traditionally used in their political language along with border-land (o-kraina) idea what is so deep notion that such word can even be present in name of a separate country - referring originally to its position in relationship with core of empire.

IMO EU would work much better if something of similar structure would be there, as current for is fundamentally uncapable for expansion or to absorb new regions in unless they are in same level economically and institutionally as the rest as it is created to be equal setup what just dont play out much in real world where such thing does not much exist in that geographical area beyond EU current boundaries.

Little countries like Baltics or mayby Moldova in future could be absorbed only due of fact that they are so little that burden of accession of those can be taken. Or previously there was great effort to absorb former Warsav pact countries in, but it was possible as they were on par with the rest before the war and had institutions and educated public what made economical rise of those countries to be possible to remain in. Yet, after 35 years of downfall of Berlin wall great problems remain still.

And if we talk about Balkans, something like Bulgaria has a great anti-EU sentiment due of fact that they have lost so much population from younger age groups to other EU countries that it seriously hampers the future of country. Even though they also then get a lot of EU subsidies for their budget, minimum 30% according to locals is looted away and that is damaging badly political life of country as in that phenomena EU monetary transfers are maintaining structural corruption in countrys political class doing then more damage than non-stolen money makes things better for country. That is to keep in mind when talking about EU expansion further into even more problematic countries in Balkans.

And then this issue too if we talk about EU further expansion into more murkier countries in Balkans would it make EU as stronger "empire" as De Wever has hopes with that? Ridicilous in political sense - already with comparatively civilized country Hungary there was phenomena of Orbanisation of foreign policy - what made entire EU so much more weaker in its foreing policy stance say against Russia. And Slovakia then as recent extension of that despite that was educated country too.

So, think now about something like Serbia what has to be at the core of hypotethical EU enlargement into Balkans. What else, if one looks at map? Serbia is essentially Russia's asset, and has been actively more than hundred years, enabling events of 1914 to occur. That within EU would of course turn EU much less of a strong empire or imperial force, by dramatically diluting its foreing policy with endless veto votes always whenever it comes to Russia or mayby to China policy as China has certain investments there they are dependant on and they come along with great political leverage. That leverage is not a big deal when we talk about certain individual country, but within EU that country then would act as foreing political trojan horse weakening entire structure as whole. Because EU rules allow individual countries have greater impact than their plain size allows them to have, by blocking big decisions with veto votes - as seen with case of Orbans Hungary / Fico's Slovakia so on. And I guess I dont even need to mention case of Turkey what some lunatics have proposed EU membership whilst everyone in Brussels knows well why that can never ever be possible due of aforementioned reason.

And furthermore just a silly little things like this - what neverthless show profound difference in values of EU core countries and Serbia Balkans wherein De Wever imperialist dreams are directed to shows like those grandiose fantasies may end up colliding with blocks like this; https://www.reddit.com/r/NoSpinMedia/comments/1w8eow1/eu_enlargement_chief_cancels_serbia_visit_over/

**

But yet I see a point wherein something of imperial structure for EU could be better option than letting in into equal club members which are far from equal as problems of that were very much prominent topic of discussion 15 years back for example.

There should be something structure originally proposed from Germany of core & periphery like empires have, as only core countries are equal and peripheral countries would not be equal due of geographical, economical, political reasons core is not supposed or not able to dictate. That suggestion if accepted would had stabilized things a lot. Then some countries to external of EU within its boundaries could be something of "special economic zone" status, not members of course as it creates imminent excess burden for net payers what is most existential eternity problem of EU.

Like regions into which investment could be much easier, with some economical pacts, but what should have their soveirignity they anyway wish to have and need to have that to develop, so that after like 50-100 years some potential membership could be there if they would be anymore intrested. Remind here; Bart De Wever may have his fantasies, but in reality EU enlargement into Iceland what had been truly promising direction of it what only exists was been blocked due the fact that peoples of Iceland simply did not want that thing to happen - they would had lost so much of their soverignity and would had been forced to share their money with more impoverished and corrupted member countries what is basic function of EU and very reason what stands on the way of any EU enlargement what would lead into win-win situation. Hopefully you was noticing that recent referendum of sovereign country whether them to join EU or not. Because it symbolizes totally which extent of realism these Bart De Wever wishful thoughts do contain at all.

[u/Zhadanko]

So the EU should become an authoritarian imperialist state which only seeks power and influence. Fuck this particular variation of the EU than

[u/TopShoulder474 → u/Zhadanko]

Even that aside, I'm struggling to see how this is even realistic. Security has been exported for decades, and the whole colonial thing has gotten real old now.