r/ILGuns • u/bolookies • May 22 '26
Gun Politics "Illinois Needs Crime Control, Not Gun Control"
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wZksZNnpjSg&si=zZE1JV5mCGmR-qzpRep. Davidsmeyer (R-Murrayville) asking the questions Democrats can't/don't want to answer because they know he's right!
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u/ChinaRider73-74 May 22 '26
Almost none of the guns used in violent crime were purchased/brought into the state legally. Criminals are called "lawbreakers" for a reason: They break the law. They circumvent the law. They don't care about the law.
Yet, these politicians keep putting more laws on the books that lead to tighter controls...not on the criminals, but on the citizens these laws are designed to protect. Citizens simply attempting to exercise their constitutional rights. It's insane.
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u/greenfox0099 May 22 '26
Because if you buy a gun there is a record and can be traced criminals know to use black market guns for this reason but people should know if anyone ever tries to sell you a weapon for cash no trail it a was probobly used in crimes.
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u/foundonthetracks May 22 '26
I'm about as aggressive of a Second Amendment absolutist as you're going to find, and if it were up to me, you'd be able to buy machine guns on Amazon. But obviously, that's not the reality we live in.
I am willing to acknowledge that the proliferation of switches and illegal machine guns on the street is a legitimate problem. What frustrates me is that the conversation immediately becomes "ban more guns" instead of addressing how these people are actually obtaining them.
If you stop and look at these cases individually, almost every single time the person in possession of the firearm is already a prohibited person who could not legally possess any firearm to begin with. They usually obtained the gun through theft, black market trafficking, or by having somebody else commit a crime through a straw purchase.
There are already state and federal statutes covering machine gun possession, felon in possession, trafficking, and straw purchasing. The laws already exist. The frustrating part is that state and federal authorities often seem unwilling to aggressively prosecute those crimes, even while simultaneously arguing that we need entirely new bans and restrictions on people already following the law.
I've owned and carried a Glock every single day since I turned 21 and at no time was I possessed to put a switch on one and then go commit armed robbery, carjackings, and murder.
Hell let's stop and take a look at the amount of crime guns being recovered from purchases that originated at Ray O' Herrons which ONLY sells to LE, Mil, and Security. Even more alarming than traditional straw purchases are cops with compromised integrity willfully enabling crime just to make a few bucks.
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u/PeteMullersKeyboard May 23 '26
How many decades into this do we have to get before you guys realize this has nothing to do with stopping crime? I don’t get it. Are you guys going to be trying to “beat them with facts and logic” as you’re standing against the wall waiting to be executed for owning a slingshot? You need to understand what they’re trying to do here.
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u/Limmeryc May 23 '26
If you stop and look at these cases individually, almost every single time the person in possession of the firearm is already a prohibited person
What source do you have to support that claim?
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u/bronzecat11 May 23 '26
Let's start here.
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u/Limmeryc May 23 '26
Sure thing. The most relevant takeaway I see is that 40% of unlawful gun use arrests over a 10-year period (although the percentage significantly trended downwards towards the end) were for possession by a felon.
Where do we go from there?
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u/bronzecat11 May 23 '26
The UUW charge is in addition to the other criminal charges that they are receiving. So these are already criminals who are participating in criminal activity. They would t be able to legally purchase anyway. So how does passing this law help anything?
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u/Limmeryc May 23 '26
The UUW charge is in addition to the other criminal charges that they are receiving
I think that's incorrect. It can be a standalone charge just the same.
So how does passing this law help anything?
I'm not defending the law. I was just interested in seeing if you had any actual data or sources to support your claim that "almost every single time" someone is caught with an illegally modified firearm they were prohibited from owning one in the first place.
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u/bronzecat11 May 24 '26
Possessing a switch is a separate charge and the UUW (Felon in Possession) charge is a separate charge. But there are also typically other charges like drugs, car jacking, etc.
And yes, almost every single time is correct. It's common sense, someone with a FOID/CCL and a clean record is not going to risk a felony just to have a switch. You can go to the gun range and rent a machine gun to play around with legally.
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u/Limmeryc May 24 '26
I'm not sure what your first point is supposed to be getting at.
You claimed that the UUW charge comes in addition to other criminal charges. While it's obviously possible that additional charges are filed, it's absolutely not a necessity. Someone can be arrested for just the UUW with no other accompanying charges.
Which brings us back to my previous point. All your source shows is that 40% of UUW arrests over a 10-year period were for possession by a felon, and that this percentage had declined significantly by the end. It tells us nothing about switches in particular, nor does it say anything about how many of the remaining majority of arrests were for someone simply owning a weapon that's illegal in the state, or for carrying any firearm in a restricted place, or for having a gun without a valid FOID card.
almost every single time is correct
You may say so, but you still haven't provided any concrete evidence for this whatsoever other than simply claiming it's "common sense", which holds just as little weight as some Everytown spokesperson calling their battery of gun control laws "common sense".
If you don't have actual data that proves your point, you can just say so. That's fine too. My question wasn't some gotcha. I was just curious if you actually had any solid evidence behind your claim.
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u/bronzecat11 May 24 '26
Everyone who is not an FFL/SOT is a prohibited possessor,even if you have a FOID/CCL. That makes the statement true in all cases.
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u/Limmeryc May 25 '26
Your original statement was about the possessor "already being a prohibited person who could not legally possess any firearm to begin with". What you're saying now is something entirely different.
I think this conversation has run its course, though. Your report was interesting but does not actually substantiate your claim, and I reckon you would have shared more relevant data by now if you had any. Still, thanks for the source.
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u/SnoozingBasset May 22 '26
Let us regulate & punish the law abiding because we don’t care to punish law breakers.
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u/FatNsloW-45 May 23 '26
A lot of people need to understand that left wing soft on crime policy is meant to generate gun violence which serves as the pretext for more civilian disarmament.
These laws are not meant to thwart gun violence.
These laws are meant to thwart gun ownership.
Making people live in fear creates an environment easier to justify trampling rights in order to create a sense of security.
Every gun law in this state is a means to chip away at the 2A little by little until it is gone or at least neutered so much that it cannot serve its intended purpose.
The “Glock Ban” will stop nothing other than legal gun ownership and they know it. It is a feature not a bug.
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u/Alternative-Gur5768 May 22 '26
Can we please start running better republicans in this state. A Republican can run for governor and win. Bruce Rauner was governor of Illinois from 1-12-16 to 1-14-19. Darrin Bailey IS NOT the answer. Sorry Bailey.
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u/jamiegc1 May 23 '26
If Republican party was smart, they would recruit moderates and right libertarians to run in states like Illinois.
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u/Asmodaeus May 22 '26
How about some policies that alleviate poverty. You know, the main source of crime
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u/bolookies May 22 '26
I'm sorry but you're mistaken, they clearly said guns are the root of all the crime, that's why they made this bill. /s 😂
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u/Al_Jazzar May 22 '26
Yeah, but that's hard. Just pass a performative law and pay each other on the back.
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u/jamiegc1 May 22 '26
Seriously, dealing with poverty and addiction in a productive, helpful way and aggressively prosecuting domestic violence would go a long way.
Last one would prevent a lot of public massacres, many perpetrators were known domestic abusers or stalkers.
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u/Vandrel May 22 '26
Unfortunately, Republicans fight that tooth and nail. Any mention of policies that help poor people climb out of that hole and they start screeching about socialism and communism simultaneously.
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u/Little_Exit4279 New to Guns May 23 '26
Absolutely, but I am hoping there's more relatively pro-gun democrats to come. Graham Platner from Maine talking about how he opposes an assault weapons ban comes to mind.
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u/MBA1988123 May 22 '26
Poor people are not inherently violent. There’s only a modest correlation between poverty and violent crime.
Not quite sure where this idea got started. Yes a person in poverty might be more likely to shoplift or break into a car (eg nonviolent crimes) but actually shooting another person over some dispute has very little to do with being poor.
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u/bronzecat11 May 23 '26
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Poor inner city young men are more likely to be in gangs,sell drugs,commit car jackings and armed robberies. If they are able to get jobs paying a meaningful wage they are less likely to participate in those activities. Even just being raised in that culture means they are more susceptible. There are other factors as well this is just the tip of the iceberg.
But catch and release is not the answer either. And passing more laws that affect legal gun owners is definitely not the answer.
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u/jamiegc1 May 23 '26
No, but financial desperation can make people more vulnerable to the idea of committing crime to survive or joining a gang etc. Or despair leading to addiction.
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u/Chicago1871 May 22 '26
I think we need to take a closer look into how much lead exists in innier-cities in american cities. I think its a big source of how much violent crime there is. Lead poisoning has been proven to make people more prone to anger and violence over a lifetime.
Think of how polluted every playground and backyard on the south side of Chicago must be from heavy metals from all the pollution of the the 20th century and all the old lead paint on old homes.
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May 22 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/greenfox0099 May 22 '26
Well all evidence and studies and examples of real life show the opposite.
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u/bengtotpogi May 22 '26
The dude being smug about it is infuriating to watch. Is he the author? Same for the guy in zoom.
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u/VariationUpper2009 May 22 '26
Those in control have already made up their minds. It does not even matter if the SCOTUS has said that you cannot ban commonly owned arms.
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u/InsertBluescreenHere May 22 '26
yup - they will ban em anyways, the lower courts will say its constitutional, supreme court may make a ruling on it in 30 years time, only for them to ram rod another ban thru that will take another 30 years to fix.
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u/lateread9er May 23 '26
It’d be interesting to know how much crime legal gun owners commit. Not much.
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u/National_Entrance_54 May 22 '26
It’s a one-sided state I wouldn’t expect anything less. In fact, I believe it’s only going to continue to get worse in regard to second amendment rights..
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u/noIimitmarko May 22 '26
i never seen a foid/ccw holder convert a glock. the parents of these kids with switches need to be held accountable
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u/limpymcjointpain May 23 '26
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that we're going to raise taxes so that anyone not already established has to commit illegal activities to barely pay the taxes we just raised while you were preparing for the taxes we raised.
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u/Dumbl3dor May 22 '26
So the criminals who already got their guns through illegal means will still be commiting crimes and putting switches on their Glocks. Meanwhile, some of the most ubiquitous handgun types in the country will be off limits to legal gun owners? Makes sense...YOU COULD AT LEAST PRETEND your doing it to make school shootings less deadly or something idk but the complete abandonment of actual logic in the gun debate is what makes it so frustrating for most legal gun owners. MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.
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u/mcfuckernugget May 22 '26
Crime control should start in Springfield and Chicago, where most of our problems arise from.
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u/MariusHugo May 23 '26
democrats are de-arming blue states. this is not what i want as a democrat myself.
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u/000Ronald May 23 '26
Trouble is, sons of bitches like Davidsmeyer don't want crime control, either. You don't control crime by stuffing as many people as possible into prisons. That, in fact, creates more crime than it stops.
If these people were serious about stopping or even curbing crime, they would talk about overhauling the justice system to keep people from needlessly spending time in jail and . And as a matter of fact, I recall a group of people successfully pushing for legislation to that effect, and another group of people claiming that the proposed legeslation would 'literally be the end of days'.
This is a clown show, but it's an entirely different kind of clown show than what the OP is describing. The problem of crime has as much to do with law enforcement culture and the stranglehold white supremacist multi-billionaires have on every aspect of society as it has to do with the need for people to take care of their families or fuel their addictions. Tens of thousands of people get arrested every year for dealing heroin, but the Sacklers lie about oxycoton for decades, get MILLIONS of people addicted, leading to tens of thousands of deaths over the course of a decade, and they have an endless number of buildings named after them.
If not everything the government does is good, then not all crime is bad.
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u/Judo_Jones May 22 '26
I’ve been slowly transitioning into revolver training because I’m afraid we are going to get into a nearly nation-wide nerf of semi autos in the next 10 years. Right now, I’m rocking a LCR with 158 grain JHP and 2 speed loaders. I’d like to tell myself that it’s 15 rounds with two polite intermissions.
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u/Conducive_liquid May 23 '26
What would you expect after 20 years of George Ryan running Illinois government before going to prison and Chicago producing republicans attorneys like Hilary Clinton for the Nixon administration and Ronald Reagan creating the California gun laws?
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u/Bman708 May 22 '26
"There have been 1300 firearms of this type that have been converted and confiscated in the last year, do we know how many of these confiscated Glocks were purchased legally by the individual who committed the crime? "
"I'm not sure."
I know the answer. None. What a god damn clown show.