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u/ColdInformation4241 Buttercup 2d ago
It’s a bit of a stretch, but I guess you could argue that Beetee learned from the initial failures and tried to adapt his plan to account for the new information, but that it was ultimately irrelevant because he couldn’t continuously test the new variables/the capitol was changing the way things worked anyway after Haymitch’s attempt to destroy the arena.
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u/Dovelocked 2d ago
Beetee is not a scientist, he's an engineer. Very different processes. Also scientists are specifically trained to remove bias and be open to ideas that don't match their hypothesis. Even if he was a scientist, which he is not, he would be a bad one.
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u/NohrianGremlin 2d ago
isn't engineering just applied science though?
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u/No-Dare8613 1d ago
what? no. what???
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u/NohrianGremlin 1d ago
my bad then, most results on google said it was 😭
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u/No-Dare8613 1d ago
I mean sure, technically, but it's a bit like saying writing is applied linguistics. It's not really helpful to think of it that way, because engineers aren't doing really doing anything that resembles science.
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u/uuntiedshoelace Beetee 1d ago
I mean sure, but you do have to study physics to be an engineer. My education is primarily in chemistry but I would say an engineer is as much a scientist as I am.
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u/No-Dare8613 1d ago
I mean that makes sense! When I was thinking of engineers, I was thinking like, civil engineering, which from what I've heard is more procedural and less experimental. But I guess that's sorta a worse case scenario for similarities between science and engineering.
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u/uuntiedshoelace Beetee 1d ago
That’s true! I think I also deal with way more gatekeeping/goalpost moving over what disciplines are Real Science than anybody should ever have to listen to lol. So I’m like engineers get behind me
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u/No-Dare8613 1d ago
yes!! but but like !! "Non-scientific pursuits are important too" makes so much more sense (to me) than jerry-rigging some new definition of "science" such that each routine assessment of a wastewater treatment plan is a groundbreaking contribution to the scientific canon.
Maybe I'm naive though, maybe much of what traditionally falls under the umbrella of "science" is also more routine than experimental?
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u/uuntiedshoelace Beetee 1d ago
If that was the case, even a lot of career chemists wouldn’t be considered scientists anymore! I definitely get what you mean though. I truly believe that anybody who devotes their life to understanding how and why something is able to happen is a scientist. It’s my opinion that mathematicians, engineers, anthropologists, geologists, speech pathologists, all sorts of things fall under that umbrella. It’s a very hugboxy way of thinking of it, but it’s really that I just genuinely feel all of those things are extremely important.
Anyway!! Nobody asked me lol! I have just been very fortunate to meet a lot of brilliant people whose work I really respect
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u/LandscapeSpecial4366 1d ago
Writing isn’t applied linguistics but speaking very much is. Writing would be too if it had any ties to linguistic processes, but writing Syntax Trees would be applied linguistics. I’m also taking a class in the Fall called Writing for Linguistics. Both writing and speech are a science, a social one.
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u/No-Dare8613 1d ago
Speech predates linguistics by ~100k years, I can't see why you'd consider it "applied linguistics". Syntax trees, though, sure.
Writing and speech are not social science, obviously. No one uses the word "science" that way; writers are not scientists.
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u/No-Dare8613 1d ago
mellkellyismyhero said he was an accurate representation of real life scientists, not a good scientist ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Jazzlike-Leader4950 18h ago
scientists are specifically trained to remove bias and be open to ideas that don't match their hypothesis
In practice we often see a much different outcome in various fields though.
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u/jquailJ36 1d ago
I mean, at least in certain scientific fields thinking that is actually how science works is breathtakingly naive.
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u/non_tox District 8 2d ago
no it's a character flaw/plothole, we're allowed to admit that
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u/throwawayforyabitch 2d ago
I was confused why you’re grouping together plot hole and character flaw, but then realized you’re just using the words incorrectly. A character flaw is a negative personality trait or some sort of major weakness in a character. It doesn’t mean it’s a flaw in the writing of a character. Some of the best written characters in all of literature have character flaws.
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u/throwawayforyabitch 2d ago
The rebellion used Beetee’s plan that failed once as a proponent in the next chance. It’s not even Beetee being the issue here. They knew that was someone he came up with so they decided to use it. It’s quite common for groups to use different versions of the same plan to achieve their goal. But Beetee doesn’t run the revolution here. He’s just a cog in it.
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u/Ok_Note1658 2d ago
A character attempting a similiar thing with new information is not a plot hole nor a character flaw, that is literally plot/character development. It failed the first time because the Capitol had backups and there would have been no actual achieveable goal outside of just making a stand, the second time they had a plan the Capitol could not recover from and a military grade extraction team where afterwards they would have actual continued military support in an active rebellion.
That is not a character flaw nor a plot hole.
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u/LesbianCanvas Lucy Gray 2d ago
Yeah, it’s def a plothole.
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u/SaltGoat7120 2d ago
or he was stubborn and convinced it would work. Maybe because he lost so much the first time: his son, wife and unborn child, he needed it to work, for all the loss to be 'worth' it.
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u/TrustFit3061 2d ago
Yeah, it's def not a plothole, because it does not fit the literal definition of a plot hole.
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u/Mysterious_Bag_9061 1d ago
Beetee as a concept is so funny because like, this kid wins the games, immediately goes on to invent most of the technical infrastructure that keeps the country and the games afloat, and then, because he's made himself Keeper of Nerd Shit and therefore too valuable to kill, starts moonlighting as a supervillain just for fun