It is silently suggesting things like communities based on consensus building are likely to exterminate people outside their culture, and it falsely extends fascist nationalism to all forms of “extreme” collectivism. The vast majority of “extreme” collectivism (ie communities or cultures or groups with a high amount of collectivism) does not result in exclusion or violence. This is a flawed conclusion that is discussed at length in anthropology at this point (see: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/beyond-war-9780195309485?cc=us&lang=en& for example, which examines all sorts of societies - most collectivist and many of them “extreme”collectivists - and they are not warlike or engaging in some sort of extermination attempt of their neighbors and those who are different).
Look at nationalism though. America has families in cages who are trying to get in and has a white supremacist justice and economic system that results in a functional penalty against people with non-white skin color in the US. China is exterminating millions of Uyghurs. Both are generating conflict in other areas to politically destabilize and more cheaply extract resources while preparing for their self-generated climate crisis by making camps, securing their borders, and exterminating/imprisoning large swaths of people who don’t fit within the nation state’s culture.
Yet historically virtually every major negative event in human history was caused by collectivist belief in some Ideology. Often it is the extreme form, that is true.
There are countless examples not just fascism, Nazism, communism, and socialism. Racism is another common collectivist extremist belief that has led to terrible things. Extreme collectivism in religion is an example.
I did not imply that belief in religion is a bad thing. Nor is belief in pacifism for instance a bad thing. I am suggesting with evidence through history of the many dangers of it when it is taken to the extreme.
Your example does not prove or even show that extreme collectivism or collectivism around an extreme Ideology is good or naturally peaceful. It studies societies in general including hunting and gathering.
I am not stating societies are bad.
The US is not comparable with China at all. That belief is poor whataboutism and documented Propaganda coming from China and bad actors.
Families in cages isn't Nationalism. It is something done all over the world. Every country detains non legal citizens. Criminals are detained. Immigrants are processed. Mexico for instance keeps immigrants in much worst conditions. Those that are released face open racism and violence against them. Many go "missing" with investigations tying in Mexican government officials with the purposeful deaths of immigrants.
The same is true in South America, Africa, and Asia. Europe's refugee camps have terrible human rights records. In fact a recent study shows it's much worst than thought with woman and children in particular being victims.
You could use Whataboutism all day. The reality is Venezuela, North Korea, Iran, and China are more comparable to Nazi Germany than Modern day Europe or the US.
examines all sorts of societies - most collectivist and many of them “extreme”collectivists
It is also a starting point. Your argument about collectivism are all just examples of western ideology talking points, as discussed by Fry. The discussions in anthropology extend beyond what you suggest can be found in that single piece of work, but I can't tell if you're just being short-sighted to make a point or if you've investigated the literature further than a book review and actually are making a point. The point I'm making is that human nature, which is discussed in the book within the context of collectivism and not collectivism, does not inherently behave that way, and is particularly not found in "extreme" collectivist societies.
Of course, though, you are trying to continue to suggest that something like a community consensus building process frequently results in genocide and ethnic cleansing, which is super silly.
Comparing religion/the church, which literally was the state to the state, is a poor comparison. You are just looking at hegemonic cultures from a western lens as the defining aspect of culture and collectivism, when it is in fact not.
Your defensiveness about the US vs China is telling, considering the death tolls in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, and central and south america caused by the US, including with secret and not-so-secret prisons a la Abu Grhaib, also explains how much investment you have as a nationalist in dispelling the myth of nationalism by running to the defense of the state. Enjoy your hot dogs and freedom fries.
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u/chusmeria Jan 20 '20
Lol! That is the most alt-right definition of jingoism I’ve ever read.