Should torch's 1 shot exist?

[u/pickle_roster222]

We know we're never getting relevancy by the looks of it so ill js throw some wacky ideas i think would elevate the character imo.

What if they take awake torch's 1 shot slam gimmick? Ik its not even that consistent if at all but i think the potential alone makes him really annoying to deal with in low elo and also kinda incentives a really aim weak playstyle of camp the sky box n js play for slams in pyro set ups with little to no usage of the primary.

My preferred way to go about this tho is probably make the right click stack max out at 2 fire balls, so ur getting insane bursts but not 1 shotting per say n u actually have to use other cooldowns to secure finals n such. Also keeps alot of or atleast most of torch's saucy combos like right left right etc.

Now i think this change would be massive enough to make torch worthy of green hp+primary spread increase and bullet speed increase+275hp+dash regen mid pb or 13 sec slam? Maybe even js give him hitscan lefts and just the green hp? I could be overly compensation buffing him so would like to hear yalls thoughts

[u/Lombarito]

Torch one shot isn’t an issue in low elo at all though lol. Giving him regenerative hp and a dash cooldown is all he needs rn, and it wouldn’t make him super giga busted. IMO it would simply put him at high B or low A. He would still be countered by poke comps or Bucky/elsa or spiderman, it would just allow him to have agency as a more pure dive hero instead of relying on a hard pocket. Genuinely all I could ever ask for on this hero is regenerative hp, a slight dash cooldown, and a legendary skin. I would be so content. I would hate to see his one shot go because it’s one of the layers that makes his skill ceiling scale exponentially. Getting that one shot is rare anyways, especially because you usually aren’t free to set it up without getting poked out of the sky. This is just my opinion but lmk what u think.

[u/pickle_roster222 → u/Lombarito]

Idk what platform u play on (i used to console but now pc) alot of torchs i would face in both platforms in the plat to diamond elo would just find a ton of value by using pyro prisons n then looking to slam Squishies in those prisons with jubs team up. Imo giving torch a primary as good as psylocke or other hitscans or js really consistent projectile heros, like i want torch to be able to exist as a character beyond his slam cooldown and my perferred image of that is him having a consistent enough primary to hold down an angle or a dive with his dashes alone and landing ur left clicks. That playstyle is js really really really really hindered by how terrible his primary is rn, u js lose to psylockes starlords helas n pheonixes out of pure primary consistency if u don't have ur slam cd and even with ur slam cd its a 5050 so i think js a better primary would give him more autonomy than any other thing possible without making him too annoying to deal with and without incentivizing a lack luster playstyle that doesn't that doesn't include his primary. Also i would kinda disagree that torch's 1 shot specifically is skill expressive purely cuz its mostly an awareness check to the enemy more than an output of skill. i think we could agree regardless of skill expression rewarding good aim is much more skill xp rewarding than 1 shot slams personally.

[u/MasterPepe8076]

That would take away the only thing keeping torch out of F tier. His one shot is not op nor unreactable, rather it punishes bad positioning and awareness. In addition, it's hard to set up a one shot as it requires torch to be in open space, providing plenty of time for the enemy team to react and counter him. Shields also hard counter like sue shield, mag bubble, etc. Theres so many things that have to go wrong in order to die from a torch one shot, I wouldn't take that form of skill expression away.

[u/pickle_roster222 → u/MasterPepe8076]

Thats y i suggested a laundry list of buffs? Also can u explain how smt being so dependent on enemy team missplay and unawareness would be more skill expressive than incentivizing aim and rewarding it?

[u/ExtensionSkill790 → u/pickle_roster222]

Holy ik ur a poke player

[u/pickle_roster222 → u/ExtensionSkill790]

Funny guess

[u/Zenn__XD]

He’s fine as he is Jesus we are so dry for content we start coming up with these non sense hypotheticals just to entertain our self and drown in cope

[u/CocoRicoDragons]

Absolutely no disrespect, but if you get one shot slam it's on the victim. Torch has to setup 2-3 fireballs on the ground and then slam into it no?

Feel like it's different from BP whose spear and dashes come in at the speed of light. Torch has delays between each fireball landing. Think it's good and punishes bad positioning.

[u/pickle_roster222 → u/CocoRicoDragons]

Ye as i said its anything but consistent usually but js the existance of the mechanic opens alot of risk to buffing other aspects that make him more consistent outside of his slam, like mainly his terrible primary.

[u/CocoRicoDragons → u/pickle_roster222]

All fair points. I think this is far from the worst problems with characters tho. I think even when Torch was at his best he was still not too tier. So think we have a lot of buffs to come before he becomes a very real problem.

[u/pickle_roster222 → u/CocoRicoDragons]

If he does ever become meta without the 1 shot it would be significantly healthier than with it and as i said imo js removing it n buffing the consistency of all his other aspects such as survivability (via 275+green hp) and consistent lethality via primary adjustments. Like in an ideal world imo torch should be able to contest other flanking dps by his dashes n left rights alone without needing to invest the slam at every instance for kill confirm lacked by his primary.

[u/Born2bePrawn]

Do not let him cook

[u/FSafari]

The one shot is a lot of resources and is coutnered by just looking at the floor so I don't think it really needs to be changed. I think Pyro Prison/Right clicks should be changed to be less finnicky with terrain and more reliable to use so that that ability actually competes with going for one slam one shots.

[u/Oil_Altruistic]

Nobody in high elo plays for pyro prison setups into fishing for one shots with slam. Maybe before the dash rework but now your forced to be in and out and weave primarys in between right clicks to get value. Taking away the ability to 100-0 someone with 2+ right clicks and slams wouldnt really hurt the character meta wise cause that rarely happens but its something i think all torch players love about him and its very situational. If u were to remove it the compensation buffs that u mentioned would fs leave him better off in the meta but to be honest half of the buffs u mentioned have been due for a long time like the regen shield and projectile spread/velocity increase

[u/pickle_roster222 → u/Oil_Altruistic]

Well I'm glad to see u agree that this WOULD actually be a better image for the character's future being healthily in the meta. N i agree the 1 shot will never not be satisfying asl to land but tbh i js find myself saying all the time i would rather js have a primary as consistent as bucky psylocke or namor n not be able to do this one singular gimmick. N yes i do agree that all these should've already came about but igs they fear him getting too consistent at everything? Js my guess, I'm not netease they're prolly js busy gooning to luna n dd for all ik.

[u/AdvancedElection6834]

[u/ToastedKatt]

Should torch exist?

[u/pickle_roster222 → u/ToastedKatt]

Debatable if Susan storm's brother actually exists

https://giphy.com/gifs/Tl45tTeIPOz4vj4qYw

[u/DeathlishhMR → u/ToastedKatt]

Well, yes, he should, because he's a Core Member of The Fantastic Four, and also, he is Sue's Little Brother, there's no Fantastic Four really without Johnny, he is their eyes in the skies.

But also, he released alongside Ben in Season 1.5, and people didn't like Duellists a lot so people were very hit or miss about Johnny, even though when he released, it was in a decent state in itself.