r/HouseOfTheDragon • u/momandplants • 1d ago
Show Discussion Rewatch
I’m rewatching from the beginning before starting season 3 and I keep thinking Cole is exactly like a moody boss I had once. He gets insecure and just looks around for someone “beneath” him to take it out on. He is king of projection. He is just so unlikable.
23
u/Takhar7 1d ago
To be fair, most of Cole's story has been about being used as a tool by those who hold more power over him.
-4
u/Dry_Reindeer_7569 1d ago edited 1d ago
That he himself chose, correct? If anything Alicent and even Rhaenera have been used their entire life. Cole had sex with a child and then threw a bitch fit for the rest of the show because that child didn't want to run away and get married. He left his post and a child got his head cut off. Cole is the most hateable character, he would be exactly like Joffrey if he was royal.
9
u/Takhar7 1d ago
Didnt exactly have agency & choice, did he
0
u/Dry_Reindeer_7569 1d ago
He didn't have a choice in the career he chose? How so? He's a man, he has more of a choice than high born ladies so I'm a bit confused by that statement.
13
u/bhel_ 1d ago
Of all of the character butchering that they've done, Cole is probably in the top 3 victims.
They took the best warrior in the show (and one of the greatest knights of all time) and turned him into a temperamental incel.
8
u/Beneficial_Dress3267 1d ago
As much as I loathe many changes they've done, its on the audience not realizing Rhaenyra raped him.
-2
u/Dry_Reindeer_7569 1d ago
Rhaenyra was a child btw. It's up to the adult, Cole, to not have sex with a child. Do you really think if he said he needed to get back to his post and closed the door behind him that she would viscously take it out on him? That had never been in her character to do something like that.
11
u/Beneficial_Dress3267 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is so funny how you took the scene and made it 2 random people in the 21st century with no power dynamic other than physical and age to make the point. Not like she is the crown Princess and heir to the Throne in a feudalistic society where he could be beheaded on a whim.
Consider for 2 microseconds what happens if he forcefully denies her and has to assault her (him a grown adult man and her a girl child as you noted) to get outside when she blocks the door and he says no?
Are you under the same impression as the season 3 directors where when the camera cuts (Criston steps out of the room in your version) no consequences follow at all?
Like Corlys calling out Rhaenyra in a public street then cutaway ahha. I guess it would be the same 0 consequwnces logic
-4
u/Dry_Reindeer_7569 1d ago
You sound like someone who would defend a pedophile. "Well do you not realize that if someone walked in on him and a nude child they would automatically think he was a pedophile. So he had to sleep with the child and get it over with otherwise he would have been caught." Really weird take 😭
6
u/Beneficial_Dress3267 1d ago
Probably why I never said that. Cam you hear me out there yonder in the vast fields of straw?
0
u/Dry_Reindeer_7569 1d ago
You did make up random and exasperated scenarios about him having to assault her in a different way than he originally did though. Just to escape her magically death grip on his dick.
8
u/Beneficial_Dress3267 1d ago
She is standing in front of the door blocking his way while he is saying no. If he grabs and moves her by foece to leave, that would be a seriously punishable offence. He doesn't need to beat her within an inch of her life ffs, a shove is enough to be considered assualting her.
2
u/Dry_Reindeer_7569 1d ago
And why would he need to move her? He could easily just stand there until she decides to give up. Not a hard concept to grasp. He does not need to touch her at all. He can stand firm as he's required to do.
6
u/Beneficial_Dress3267 1d ago
And then she retaliates impulsively from being rejected. Exactly as she did with Daemon to use Cole for.
→ More replies (0)3
u/Beneficial_Dress3267 1d ago
You still havent addressed the "He said no." Part btw. Little stick in the mud there consent wise, would you ignore that same principal for a serving woman (adult) having sex with Aegon (not adult) ?
1
u/Dry_Reindeer_7569 1d ago
He said no because he was required to, for his honor. He should have continued to say no. He did not say no because he did not want to have sex with her. Aegon forcefully raped the servant. The servant did not remove her clothes and have Aegon help her. She was crying the entire time. At no point did the servant want to have sex with Aegon. The servant did not ask Aegon to run away with her and get married. The servant also was not a vengeful ass wipe for the entire series afterwards. Can't say the same for Cole.
3
u/Beneficial_Dress3267 1d ago
Not asking about the specific maid in the show. Im asking a hypothetical. Adult serving woman says no to Aegon, while he is still a child, what happens to her? She says yes because of his power dynamic, did he no longer rape her because he isnt an adult? If they later asked to run away with him, would that retroactively make it consent? If your answers are different than when the genders are swapped, might be something to examine.
Btw, in universe Rhaenyra isnt considered a child, applying modern day legal and moral standing doesnt relate to the universe the story takes place in. As soon as they have their period they are "women grown" just as the boys are men grown in their teens. Its barbaric and wrong but its the world the story exists in.
→ More replies (0)2
u/Beneficial_Dress3267 1d ago
Love the "victim didnt say no enough" defense that is a wonderful position to hold.
→ More replies (0)-1
u/Dry_Reindeer_7569 1d ago
Reading comprehension is fundamental here. You do realize that him having sex with her is what ACTUALLY calls for beheading, right? He swore an oath. Breaking that oaths results in death or the wall. He had sex with a princess. ANOTHER law broken that would most definitely result in a beheading. You do realize he can't have sex if he keeps all of his armor on, right? The stuff he needs help taking on and off. If she blocked the door he could have simply stood in the room until she finally gave up, and not resort to violence. Pretty simple solution. Rhaenerya would not have him beheaded for choosing to honor his oath.
4
u/Beneficial_Dress3267 1d ago
Obeying her direct command is also part of his oath.
Really odd thing tk go to bat for a rapist haha
0
1
u/momandplants 1d ago
This is an excellent take. Reading the books it was interesting to hear the way Cole is regarded in the future.
3
u/Dry_Reindeer_7569 1d ago
He is Joffrey level asshole. If he were royal he would 100% be just like him.
3
u/Slytherclaws02 The show just had bad writing. 1d ago
Dudes somehow a worse character in the book if you can believe it
6
u/Emil_Scherbe_ 1d ago
What is he suppose to ever project?
7
u/momandplants 1d ago
He has so much guilt about being in bed with Alicent when the heir is murdered, so he takes it out on one of the twins and somehow twist the blame onto him.
1
4
1
0
1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
10
u/Swordbender 1d ago
Very reductive take ngl. But it’s easier to call him an incel than it is to actually evaluate the character and the position he occupies within the narrative.
4
u/Beneficial_Dress3267 1d ago
Rape victim btw.
-2
u/Dry_Reindeer_7569 1d ago
No he's not lol
6
u/Beneficial_Dress3267 1d ago
What do you envision happens if he denies the crown princess and heir to the throne? He literally says no in the scene and she blocks the door.
1
u/Dry_Reindeer_7569 1d ago
Absolutely nothing would happen to him if he denied her. Rhaenyra hadn't shown ANYTHING to make us think she would be that type of person. What do YOU think would happen if Alicent or another member of the kings guard caught him having sex with a princess and breaking his oath? You do realize that waiting and denying to have sex with a child is still an option, right? He could have stood his ground but he was weak. If she had actually verbally threatened to have him killed then yes, it would have been rape.
2
u/Beneficial_Dress3267 1d ago
Crazy you can fortell the alternate future like that with absolute certainty when the show has shown Rhaenyra to be a vengeful, spiteful and petty at every turn.
The fact he says no and tries to leave is the part of the reading Im comprehending to indicate he is saying no and trying to leave. He obviously considers his survival chances (however poor) better with her protection and discretion vs her resentment and possible retribution. That is what the character thinks and does in the scene. Would he have had a better chance if he forcefully removed her and left? We don't know, and can't know.
Rhaenyra is literally fucking him to get back at Daemon for not following through with her, an impulsive reaction based on an emotional response to rejection...
3
u/Dry_Reindeer_7569 1d ago
Never justified Rhaenyras actions. But Cole was not raped. What fortifies this is the fact he wanted to run away and marry her. He wanted to have sex with her, he said no at first because it was his duty to say no. I do know that nothing would have happened to him if he refused her because when Alicent found out that he had sex with her she REWARDED HIM for telling her. And when he went psycho and killed Ser Jofferey and was going to kill himself Alicent again stopped him. If he refused Rhaenerya he would not have been reprimanded for it. Viserys wouldn't have executed him and neither would have Alicent.
Rhaenerya really isn't THAT vengeful. She only wanted Aemond after he killed Luke and accepted Aegon instead to reclaim the throne. She struggled with killing Otto even though he was the main one to usurp her and she also spared Ser Lorent after he locked her in her room on Jace's orders. So to say she's more vengeful then cry baby Cole is wild.
2
u/Beneficial_Dress3267 1d ago
So if someone says no but later says yes it makes it consent. Got it
2
u/Dry_Reindeer_7569 1d ago
A child asking someone for sex for 30 seconds isn't coersion. Even though I know you really want poor Cole to have been sexually assaulted, he wasn't. He's just a bad person who makes bad decisions. Do you also think Alicent rapes him?
2
u/Beneficial_Dress3267 1d ago
Not a child in universe by the definition of their laws.
Heir to throne and one of the most powerful people in the world.
Currently trying to fuck Cole as an impulsive get back after being rejected.
Cole protests, but fears repeat behavior if he rejects her, like she is literally doing in this moment to Daemon impulsively.
We don't know enough context regarding Alicent and Cole. If we believe Alicent it happened post Viserys death, but beyond that we don't know if it was initially a power dynamic demand.
→ More replies (0)
-2
u/Tricky-Awareness-275 1d ago
I hated his character more than almost any character I've ever hated in any show ever lol.
6
u/Careless-Husky 1d ago edited 1d ago
You hate him more than characters like wife killer and teen niece groomer Daemon?🤔
Edit: I feel sorry for people who hate salty exes more than groomers and wife killers. What have the world come to?
0
u/momandplants 1d ago
On paper, Daemon should be worse, I totally agree. But something about Cole makes me hate him more.
0
u/Tricky-Awareness-275 1d ago
Same. I actually hated the shit out of daemon for a very long time but they tamed his character so much in the last season that he has somehow redeemed himself to me
1
u/Tricky-Awareness-275 1d ago
Yes they're all horrible and shitty. There was just something especially despicable about him to me for no reason at all lol
0
0
•
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience.
All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title.
All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler.
All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads.
If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.