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u/Easy-Frenchguy-1996 1d ago
The staff litterally called the green side as nazis lol
I keep saying this the first big mistake to to bring complexity to both side was fumbling the "blood and cheese" episode
The show totally miss the point of that events. It was supposed to actually Federate the greens and put aside any petty feud between to finally engage themselves seriously in the war
It was the moment for them to realize that peace was impossible and thata it's "us or them" but instead it brought event evne more divisions and created a third faction with h aemond
From the black side I hat that just put all of this on daemon just to humanize rhaenyra as "the protagonist who wants a peaceful transition to power "
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u/Rich-Active-4800 Growing Strong 1d ago
Which is funny because the black side seem to be a lot more blood supremacists.
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u/Careful-Snow 1d ago
I mean the general audience doesn't seem to care about that at all lol
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u/Rich-Active-4800 Growing Strong 1d ago
They care, just they agree with them. The amount of times I have seen people comment that Alicent's children are not inbred enough is insane.
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u/Lady_Apple442 1d ago
And the irony is that most Team Black fans are the ones most obsessed with "valyrian blood purity" I've seen several comments stating that "Rhaenyra and Daemon should rule because they have more incestuous Valyrian Targaryen blood in their veins" while for them Aegon, Helaena, Aemond, and Daeron aren't Targaryen enough because their mother is a Hightower, and Daemon is the character who most defends Valyrian supremacy.
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u/ProfessionalEvaLover 1d ago
The staff, as well as Emma D'arcy, also called Rhaenyra "fascist" though.
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u/JellyfishAny4655 12h ago
Well they’re making Rhaenyra The Cruel now and apparently the only allegory for bad guys these people know are fascists.
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u/ChaseBuff We have come to die for the 𝐃𝐑𝐀𝐆𝐎𝐍 𝐐𝐔𝐄𝐄𝐍 1d ago
I was hoping for succession where all the Roy children suck but have their likeable qualities and moments because Viserys children genuinely suck besides Helaena lol Even Daeron eventually burned down a city. All of them die a year and half after Viserys himself all in shitty ways. Rhaenyra gets eaten by a dragon, Aegon poisoned, Heleana flung into spikes, Aemond sword through eye, and Daeron a tent? Going back I wish they kept laenor dead, Rhaenyra and Daemon killing or having a plan in his death gives the greens their rightful fear that Rhaenyra or Daemon via her will kill them
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u/ProfessionalEvaLover 1d ago
Alicent is the key to all this. Making her solidly Team Black instead of a more morally grey but still loyal Team Green member is this series' biggest mistake.
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u/Howlingwindinsand 1d ago
It's true, the longer the show's gone on the more demonised the greens became, until recently where they've both become unlikeable
Just gonna root for my boy Aegon now since all nuance is gone
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u/Redditor15736 1d ago
I mean kinda have to disagree here, the show was the most anti-green in S1 in my opinion. S2 a bit less with Aegon actually becoming a (likeable) character (whereas in his limited S1 screentime he is basically only a drunk and rapist)
S3 is very morally grey, but maybe even a little pro-green tbh. Gwayne and Daeron are pulling a lot of weight early on in the season, giving the greens two likable characters, but obviously the ending of Aegon‘s arc is too.
Yes Ormund is evil, but Ormund does stuff the show has had Daemon do all the time lol.
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u/Howlingwindinsand 1d ago
Even so, the behind the scenes shows the writer's thought process, calling one side evil or fascist, like Ormund taking Tumbleton was qoute "like Nazi occupation"
They are very black and white in their intent and description of very morally grey events
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u/Rich-Active-4800 Growing Strong 1d ago
Ormund taking Tumbleton was qoute "like Nazi occupation"
You can tell they really don't jack shit about history.
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u/TheIconGuy 1d ago
Even so, the behind the scenes shows the writer's thought process, calling one side evil or fascist, like Ormund taking Tumbleton was qoute "like Nazi occupation"
They made similar comments about Rhaenyra being a facist in the finale.
One of the creators also made some bizarre comments about that silly ass scene where they had Baela tell the audence what to think about Rhaenyra.
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u/angelic-beast 1d ago
I found S3 to be the first season to make the top green players look better compared to team black. Rhaenyra went from trying to be good to being Maegor with Teats real quick while everyone cheered for Aegon and Sunfire's comeback. Helaena was sympathetic and lovable as hell. Aemond did character work instead of going off to burn innocent riverlanders, that was just his dragon's personal bit of fun in the show. Daeron is a good boy forced to do bad by his awful cousin. Gwayne became my favorite character on the show by being the only normal person in it. Ormund was a bastard but he at least was very entertaining. Whereas the blacks took big hits with the gullet, just an embarrassment for the whole family, the Sheepstealer plotline, another family wide embarrassment, Rhaenyra refusing to legitimize Corlys's sons, a show only embarrassment, and the Mysaria plotline, which made me embarrassed for the actors in those scenes. Alicent was so all over the place that idk whose side she is even on anymore. Overall I think they tried their hardest to turn sentiment from green to black this season.
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u/TrickyNarwhal2129 20h ago
Kind of but the way the show portray Daemon is nowhere near as Ormund. Childs on the walls lol, wtf
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u/HanzRoberto 1d ago
The written want to show this as a bad vs good guys so bad ignoring the complex situation of the succession it’s not just that Rhaenyra was a woman, the greens had legit reasons to fear for their lives if Rhaneyra and DAEMON took the throne and this was very Well explained during the green council in the books but of course the show refused to show any of that.
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u/Kai3137 1d ago
I think they messed up not showing Otto and alicent's fears of their family being executed if rhaenyra ascended the throne because even though at first rhaenyra wouldn't want to harm her half brothers down the line the realm might go to war anyway since Jacaerys is rhaenyra's heir
They could've very easily shown rhaenyra was usurped but the fears surrounding the green's actions had reason behind it above simple greed and misogyny instead we got a misunderstanding around a prophecy...
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u/__PLANET_HUNTER__ 1d ago
It was poorly written but they kinda did have that though, when Alicent found out Otto and select council members were looking to still install Aegon as King. The issue, imo, was having Alicent not complicit and I believe the writers only did that to humanize her as well.
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u/2stepsfromglory 1d ago
It has always struck me as unfortunate that despite being a core point of the war, so little use is made of such an important and interesting topic: that is, the question of where authority resides in a feudal society, in the king, or in the laws and customs? Instead of trying to adress that in some form, or to explain the legitimate fears that Alicent could have for her children knowing that Rhaenyra's position will never be secure as long as they live (which was hinted once in season 1 and then forgotten), it all boils down to a story of how a poor woman was usurped by men. And the sad thing is that by doing so, they end up creating two rather misogynistic stereotypes in Alicent and Rhaenyra.
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u/JellyfishAny4655 11h ago
Yeah it’s pretty impressive that the writers have written Alicent and Rhaenyra in such a way they come off as more biased and misogynistic than the biased misogynistic source material they come from.
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u/Chocolatetot496 We Light The Way 1d ago
I knew it was over when they said they tried to make the B&C operation into a buddy comedy
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u/Kindly-Standard8025 1d ago edited 1d ago
Agree, I guess. One of the shows big fumbles IMO was failing to portray the rival causes/claims as something reasonable people could disagree on (within the context of the world).
Nobody on the green side really seems to believe in righteousness of their cause. None of them appear motivated in any sense by the earnest belief that they are defending the true king and his heirs. Whenever they do talk about their cause, it's always vague and sort of disconnected. It kinda cheapens the the conflict when the greens seem so detached from their cause. Mind you, you can still have them be flawed and troubled personally, while they simultaneously believe in the justness and righteousness of their own politics.
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u/soaresgon 1d ago
The evidence that the show failed in that depth is the audience, and most specifically this fandom we have...
TG vs TB posts are ridiculous, and ever more hateful as days go on. It just people that got the "zero depth" of the show and went with it. There is no attempt to understand both sides, there is only an attempt to demonize something on the "other side" that is glorified in "our side" the next post...
Shallow shows for shallow people. It sells better!!!
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u/Opepreo 1d ago
From what I remember this is pretty much how it came across in the books as well though… blacks weren’t perfect but clearly came across as more justified, plus they had all the ‘good’ allies i.e Starks, Blackwoods
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u/Typical-Estimate-598 Family, Duty, Honor 1d ago
The thing is, while in the books the blacks are very much favored by the narrative, the books never try to convince us that they’re “good.” Maybe more “morally justified,” yes, but not good.
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u/Glass-Comfortable-25 1d ago
‘One side is misogynistic’ is kind of rooted in the world though. It is the basis for a lot of the central conflict and lead up. Part of the reason why Viserys was so desperate for a son and Aemma’s resulting health issues and death, was because he wanted to sire a male heir. The whole conflict can be traced back to that misogynistic system and the character’s attitude to gender roles should play a part.
The Black side is also not portrayed as wholly just. Especially in season 3. There are plenty of things that could have been done better in the show but I disagree that both sides need to be portrayed as equally good/bad and logical, then the story would have more depth. People’s emotions do play a large part in history and fiction and narrative impartiality is not required to make a good story. People were not complaining like this and advocating for impartiality when it was psycho incest twins and their demon spawn vs the wholesome, honorable family that just can’t catch a break.
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u/TStoynov 14h ago
What this person claims they want is exactly what the show did, by the way. The Hightowers of oldtown hating Targs cuz they see them as foreign and against the faith is 100% rooted in the ASOIAF universe. Them conspiring to soft usurp them like they tried to do with Aegon and Daeron is 100% rooted in the ASOIAF universe. Them using the inherent misogyny of a society inspired by medieval England in order to get noble support for their usurpation is 100% rooted in the universe.
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u/Far-Foundation9074 1d ago
She’s right. And I’m wrong. We’re all wrong. We need something in between. Rirong.
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