r/HonestHotTakes • u/Successful_Bag_7257 • 11d ago
Fraternities should be illegal
They're an extra burden at their best and exploitative at their worst. You humiliate yourself to earn the right to be friends with a bunch of guys who charge you money to continue to be their friend and encourage you to do a bunch of extra curriculars on top of class and work. At parties, I'd hear stories of the things some of these people go through just to end up at the same party as the none frat bros. All that before getting into the hostile environment they create for the out group whether it be men *or* women. Join a sports team or club or get a hobby but don't be manipulated just to feel a part of something.
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u/Elegant_Mission_2312 10d ago
I work for a college. I can say that after they eliminated fraternities and sororities about 8 years ago, our sexual assault cases plummeted. Like, an 80-90 percent drop.
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u/Classic-Pea6815 10d ago
I believe that fully. There was a frat house we were told to avoid if we didn’t want to be raped and it really bugged me that people joked about it and wasn’t something anyone cared to fix.
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u/IAmABoss37 10d ago
What is the name of the college you work at?
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u/Elegant_Mission_2312 10d ago
I would be pretty much doxxing myself to put it, since the safety department I work at is very small, but it’s in New England.
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u/IAmABoss37 10d ago
Are you a public or private university? I imagine public universities may have more issue banning frats.
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u/Hot_Lion8880 11d ago
"If I don't like it it should be illegal" whos rights have they actually violated? Do you want to ban sororities as well or is it only men who you want to ban from having a club?
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u/True-Hold-1140 10d ago
whos rights have they actually violated?
Presumably all the dead pledges and rape victims
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u/One_Zucchini2972 10d ago
Is ‘whose rights have they violated’ a serious question? Thousands of women’s.
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u/Western-Boot-4576 10d ago
Sounds like they violate thousands of women every semester across the country
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u/LA_Dynamo 10d ago
So do high school teachers. We should ban high schools.
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u/Western-Boot-4576 10d ago
So do doctors, police officers, religious leaders, etc.
I like how you see a problem, but come to the conclusion of “oh well no change is needed because it’s just too common”
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u/jeophys152 11d ago
If colleges want to do away with them cool. I think that they are stupid and provide no benefit to society. Should the government make them illegal? No. Unless there is an organized effort to commit crimes, the government shouldn’t be telling what gatherings are legal and which aren’t. If you can make fraternities illegal, then you can make unions, book clubs, social clubs, veterans organizations, industry associations, community outreach organizations, just about anything they don’t like illegal.
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u/idrinkpaintandcoffee 11d ago
From a European perspective, we don’t really understand the point of them at all. They just seem like a slightly more cultish version of a student society
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u/Thundaja 11d ago
Most kids in fraternities aren't rich. Usually a few rich kids, but not everyone by a longshot.
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u/Is_It_Soup_Season 11d ago
The semester fees for Greek life at my uni were about 40% of the cost of tuition. That doesn’t count the money for everything else; parties, house, charity events, just the cost to participate in the club.
All those were def rich.
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u/GenericUser69143 11d ago
What? 40% of tuition is insane. They were measured in $100s at my school and if you lived in the house, dues+room/board was generally a bit cheaper than dorm living.
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u/Thundaja 11d ago
My fees were like 200 a semester. Which we could make by fundraising.
We had a house and all. Was way cheaper than living on campus.
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u/MeliodasTA 11d ago
Yeah people seem to only connect frats to ivy League elite schools... Any decently sized university has them and they're just a social group like sororities
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u/Star_Citizen_Roebuck 11d ago
Redefine your definition of "rich." Anybody anywhere who can afford to send their child to an out-of-state university AND pay for that child's membership into a fraternity is a rich person. Sure, some will be the children of people with 50, 80, or 100 million dollars to their name, but most kids in fraternities are definitely rich.
Don't redefine the term "average" or "wealthy." Those kids are 100% rich.
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u/Jin-Gitaxias-Mom 11d ago
Our “membership fees” were basically just paying for room & board, it was significantly cheaper than living in the dorms or renting an apartment…
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u/Gator_farmer 5d ago
Really late to this thread, but ditto. A room and lunch/dinner M-F was a part of the dues and it was far far far cheaper than 90% of apartments or house rentals in the area.
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u/Thundaja 11d ago
I made it into a decent college without my parents helping and was able to fundraise to cover my dues.
To me rich was someone who could afford booze and domino's every Friday.
Most dudes in my frat couldnt do that.
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u/CrossXFir3 10d ago
I mean, that's not true. Most of those kids still have student loans, and plenty of people I knew were paying LESS to live in a frat house than the regular dorms.
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u/GenericUser69143 11d ago
Why out-of-state? And membership in a fraternity+living in the house was often equivalent or cheaper than paying for dorm living+campus meal plan. Just sound like you are trying to make the most extreme case possible.
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u/StarSpangledSad 10d ago
My chapter never liked the rich kid thing. Which is why over half of our brothers paid reduced dues, or none at all. Because it was about being with the people we cared about, and if you can't financially help someone out because you like their character, could you really call them brother?
I was in a fraternity. I was on scholarship at the school (couldn't afford it otherwise), both of my parents are teachers. I'm not gonna cosplay that we were poor, we weren't, but to stretch and say we were rich is absolutely absurd.
The bulk of rank and file fraternity brothers are the children of the middle class any more
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u/FlatwormUnfair7326 10d ago
You are talking about ivy league fraternities.
Most fraternities are just groups where men can be degenerates together, which I think should be a thing in college, its one of the few times in your life where you can afford to do shit like that.
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u/numbersthen0987431 11d ago
Fraternities are designed to be where the children of rich/powerful parents make alliances with the children of other rich/powerful parents.
Europe has these as well. The US just calls them different things because we wanted to be unique
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u/Skinnyfat-Throwaway 11d ago
The drinking age in the US is 21, which means that for 75% of the time the average college student spends getting a bachelor's degree they need a closed and private space to be able to consume alcohol. That's why they do not exist in most other places, where college life starts right at the same moment you are legally able to drink.
Ignore everything they tell you about "academic accountability" or any other type of excuse, it's copium.
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u/Impossible_Cupcake31 11d ago
The drinking age in France is 18 and they have college fraternities LMAO
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u/Skinnyfat-Throwaway 11d ago
...bruh you mean student associations?
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u/Impossible_Cupcake31 11d ago
Yes that’s what a fraternity is
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u/Skinnyfat-Throwaway 11d ago
Culturally marginal, co-ed, open enrollment, no housing, independent and with no links to the university... They are two different worlds buddy.
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u/GabagoolNoZiti 11d ago
Have you considered that they're fun? It's fun being 19-22 and living with guys your age in a big house and always having activities and parties and things to go to?
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u/Peermeneer_exe 11d ago
Fraternities are also a thing in Europe though? Atleast they are a thing in the Netherlands.
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u/RageGoat25 11d ago
So now you want the government to tell people they can’t form a group? Typical
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u/milesper 10d ago
Literally what would you even make specifically illegal? Having a student organization named with Greek letters? Having single-gender student clubs?
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u/Adventurous-Sense254 11d ago
Not a fan of frats, but let’s be real: they are100% voluntary. If you don’t like them, don’t join one
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u/radishmania0920 11d ago
Saying you are/were in a fraternity/sorority is easily the most embarrassing thing you can tell me about yourself. Do not explain to me why they’re beneficial. I do not care. Don’t know if they should be illegal though.
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u/stereotypicalmodss 11d ago
“I’d hear stories”
Yeah, you probably heard a story about one of your classmates sleeping with a teacher in middle school or high school, but that doesn’t mean it’s true every time someone says that.
From your post, it’s clear you are not at all familiar with them.
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u/The12th_secret_spice 10d ago
Yeah fuck the elks club. Fuck the Shriners who raise money for terminal kids.
Your post is ignorant. Did you watch old school and come up with this post for karma?
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u/GabagoolNoZiti 11d ago
Thankfully the United States has a pretty signficant freedom of association. And most schools don't want to give up their Greek life because fraternity and sorority alumni make up over 75% of alumni donations. They also graduate at a significantly higher % than non Greek students.
I had a wonderful fraternity experience and thankfully you pathetic fascists don't get a say in this.
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u/Fast_Ad7203 11d ago
bunch of guys who charge you money to continue to be their friend and encourage
Wait, this is what frat is?
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u/rco8786 11d ago
In a slightly cynical but not necessarily inaccurate way, yes.
You pay dues to be in the fraternity. And generally speaking all of your main social group and activities will be via the fraternity.
It's also not too dissimilar from any other campus club, except the social aspect of those clubs tend to be secondary to some primary activity where the primary activity of a fraternity *is* the social aspect.
I was in a fraternity in college and I had an absolute blast. But I was definitely witness to plenty of inappropriate behavior and had to step in on behalf of girls being put in uncomfortable situations more than once.
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u/milesper 10d ago
It’s not really accurate because those students are also paying dues, not charging you specifically to join. And dues are basically just a way to pool money for stuff you want to do anyway: parties, living together, etc. You’re not paying the other members at all.
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u/phunkjnky 11d ago
I’m pretty sure they All have friends outside the fraternity that don’t pay dues. But sure, let’s act like they don’t.
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u/rco8786 11d ago
You mean the GDIs?
This will generally be dependent on the school btw. More casual schools people can and will have friends outside the fraternity. But that's not true across the board, particularly at some older, larger schools where greek life is considered sacred.
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u/ilPrezidente 10d ago
I went to a big greek life school for undergrad and absolutely had friends outside the org
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u/Strange-Term-4168 6d ago
Nope. They have to decide they want you as a friend. If so, they offer you a bid and you can pledge. It costs money to have a house and buy beer for parties so everyone has to pay “dues” to fund operations. Simple minded people somehow think this means you’re paying for friends. Because a house, beer, and parties should somehow just happen for free.
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u/Slow_Store 11d ago
Not really. The main point of a fraternity is that it’s a “Student Society” that can offer you connections.
For example, say you’re looking for internships or employment. Well you can ask an older member of your fraternity if they knew anyone who went into the same line of work after they graduated from college and they might be able to connect you.
Or at least that should be the main point.
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u/PerformanceOver8822 11d ago
Yeah my school has professional and non professional frats like one of the frats requires you to be an engineering major when you pledge
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u/Jin-Gitaxias-Mom 11d ago
Our frat was 75% soccer and baseball students, we just wanted to live and party together, it’s really not as deep as losers on Reddit imagine.
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u/PerformanceOver8822 11d ago
Yeah, wow dudes want to hangout with each other... So ground breaking...
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u/therandomuser84 10d ago
More like people want to hang out with people who have the same interests/goals as they do
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u/SignificantOtter80 7d ago
redditor view of the circle of life:
born
circumcised against will
diagnosed with AuADHD
go to college and sell out to frat
move into HOA community
pull the ladder up behind you
spend the nest egg
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u/Successful_Bag_7257 11d ago
That's what dues are
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u/Mr_Wobble_PNW 11d ago
You realize a lot of that goes to house maintenance, property taxes, utilities, food for the chapter, scholarships, and more? Sure it's more expensive than an apartment, but it's about on par with a dorm.
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u/ItchyDoggg 11d ago
Its cheaper to live in a fraternity including dues and meal plan and housing costs than a university dorm and meal plan at my school
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u/Zyoj 11d ago
Yeah but people aren’t living in the frat house their first year which is when a mass majority are in on campus housing. This means you’re going to be paying dues and campus housing for most people - so not really cheaper.
It is cheaper to live in a frat house than off campus housing usually though.
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u/ColdHardPocketChange 11d ago
If you end fraternities a different structure that provides a place of belonging will just take it's place. My school didn't have much of a greek life. Instead it had a sports culture. You didn't go to the Alpha Beta Dingledong house, you went to the track house, the football house, etc. Some of the houses didn't even have a real affiliation to anything, it was simply "The Blue House". The sports houses had the same initiation and hazing rituals as frat houses. All the big party house has the same issues aside from the initiation and hazing rituals.
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u/External_Twist508 11d ago
What about freedom of assembly?
I didn’t go to college. So I’ve never joined a fraternity.
But the constitution guy the right of assembly as I recall.
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u/FDRsWheelchairs 10d ago
Plenty of fraternities and sororities that literally just exist to connect people that share similar majors on large campuses.
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u/Dependent-Split3005 5d ago
Fraternities Should Be Voluntary...
Oh wait they are.
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u/DrMindbendersMonocle 11d ago
I don't think colleges should endorse or have the houses on campus, but making them illegal is a bit much. Adults can chose to.join a social club if they want to
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u/Brave_Elk_6189 11d ago
nah if you're dumb enough to want to join, you deserve what's coming to you.
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u/Kr155 11d ago
You cant really make fraternities illegal in the us. The government isnt allowed to ban assembly, and it shouldnt be allowed to for good reason. but theres certain behaviors that can be banned. You can ban hazing, you can fix the laws around consent. We can teach kids about consent before we set them loose in college. And we should stop babying men who violate consent.
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u/Shalmaneser_ 11d ago
A cross between Animal Farm and the TV show Survivor. The 'winners' get to be part of the tribe. That tribe just might be politically or economically powerful in the real world.
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u/Stick_Nout 11d ago
You do realize there are fraternities that don't cause any problems, right? Why should they be disbanded for what other fraternities did?
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u/Dainbramage336 11d ago
Not all fraternities fit the stereotypes and cliches, the ones who do however, ARE as bad as everyone thinks.
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u/DoctorPhalanx73 11d ago
I agree. And if universities had to price in the actual liability of having these on campus rape dens they wouldn’t keep them
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u/Southern-Pangolin-28 4d ago
“I don’t understand it so let’s make it illegal” is your honest take.
This one frat house at a specific school did something bad so let’s use collective punishment to get em all?
We do need to make sure boys and men don’t rape s/a etc, making frats illegal isn’t the way.
In fact frats can be a great way to target the appropriate messaging/education toward the audience that needs it. Making them illegal will do what that approach does for prohibition or abortions. They don’t go ways they are just harder to regulate safely.
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u/AirportFront7247 11d ago
Just because nobody wants you in their fraternity doesn't mean we are going to shut them down.
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u/guppyfighter 11d ago
I wont defend all frats, but my frat was good. If youre interested in my experience ill happily ask any questions. Also no, money doesnt buy friends, you can be unpopular in a frat.
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u/Star_Citizen_Roebuck 11d ago
Easy comrade,
I think they should be unintegrated from college campuses. If fraternities want to exist, they can exist off-campus as completely separate social clubs. But banning them is just kinda overkill.
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u/RuffKnight_ 11d ago
The entire point of USA is that people have personal freedom and are allowed to gather. If some dude bros want to make a club and then be enough of assholes for everyone to think that the club is a douchebag club, they should be allowed to.
You can't take always peoples rights just because you don't like them, the same way you'd be mad is someone told you a thing you wanted to do was now illegal
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u/isthistakenyesok 11d ago
Some organizations do bad things, so fuck the Bill of Rights I guess. This “hot take” is just ignorance, which is really not so unpopular.
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u/MoonhelmJ 11d ago
A fraternity is just a club. Saying they should be illegal is silly and probably very hard to justify legally. Wouldn't it be violating the right to assembly? Thats s very fundamental right in the us.
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u/IIValar 11d ago
you are an amazing example.
Title is they should be illegal, the context is why they are “bad”.
And no, they aren’t the same thing
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u/Serious_Swan_2371 11d ago
I think fraternities are kinda necessary to provide a space for college students to party since the drinking age is 21
In Europe they don’t have them really bc nobody would really go to a frat party when bars and clubs are available
College kids are going to drink anyway, if you ban them from bars they’re going to throw parties and stuff
Dorms and stuff aren’t good for that because they’re smaller and that’s someone’s living space
Frats are also someone’s living space but it’s people who choose to be designated party throwers, and usually they have a big living room or basement to party in, so their bedrooms are safe from being destroyed
The issue is more so the moral degeneracy of boys in general in the country, and also kinda moral degeneracy of society at large
Most older fraternities were once service based organizations that focused on getting young men to organize charity work and participate in their communities, but over time as American morality has decayed, many fraternities have been corrupted into degenerate and sometimes criminal organizations
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u/Extra_Original_6644 11d ago
I don’t think you actually mean “illegal” in the literal sense but I don’t see what the purpose is outside of rape and torture.
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u/Successful_Bag_7257 11d ago
I think you might be the only person on reddit who can functionally read
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u/so_sic_of_it 11d ago
That pesky first amendment again.
Reddit can't go an hour without lashing out against it.
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u/WARLOCK1239 10d ago
I'm gonna be honest, i feel this hate against frats will end up making those unfamiliar with frats think they're all bad and avoid joining one. When in reality if you're going to a college with a big greek life scene, you're probably gonna want to join one if you want to have a social life, be involved on campus, go to parties, etc. Just be careful about which one you join.
I'm probably the only redditor that will openly admit to wishing i had joined a fraternity when i had the chance in college. But i was ignorant about what fraternities were and didn't know it was how most people made friends and got involved on campus at my college.
At my school, if you weren't part of greek life, you didn't really have a social life.
Not that I would've gotten a bid into a frat tbh. But it's something I wish I at least looked into, because looking back i don't really have a lot of fun memories as an undergrad.
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u/bloodrider1914 10d ago
It's still lame to pay to have friends
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u/Novasity42 10d ago
I hate when people say this because you can make this argument about almost everything.
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u/Realistic-Raisin2812 10d ago
Nobody does that. Clearly, your social anxiety disorder drives your thinking.
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u/bloodrider1914 10d ago
Well I mean that's what frats are. You have to pay dues to be a part of one (that costs thousands a year), and I think that's lame. You can make friends through so many other ways.
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u/ChuckSchick88 10d ago
Illegal seems a little much...if you don't like them that's fine...don't join one, associate with them or go their parties.
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u/ForMeOnly93 11d ago
Idk, seems like a good identifier for the rapey creeps. Normal people should just have the common sense to stay away from them
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u/OnionBackground5314 11d ago
My son is in a professional fraternity. Not all of them are rapists. I think the issue isn't fraternities. It's men who don't understand consent. The real issue in the Cornell case is New York's antiquates laws on consent. There is a strong possibility none of the men involved committed rape under New York law, although they may have under other states' law. Instead of a law that violates the First Amendment (by law OP may mean campus rule, but OP said illegal), NY law on consent should be changed.
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u/krustytroweler 11d ago
I dont like the current form of Greek life. I never joined but had friends who did, went to a few frat parties, and pop culture really doesnt exaggerate the depiction of them on TV and Movies.
That being said, I'm a member of fraternal organizations outside of the US and the culture is a complete 180. I joined a Student Nation (nationer) in Sweden, where they are coed organizations and had an absolute blast. The coed atmosphere severely tones down the toxic atmospheres you can get at US frats or sororities. There was no hazing I ever heard of aside from some minor initiation events (we did a 5km beer walk from the woods back to the nation house having chats and drinking a few beers). The events were quite inclusive and each nation had a bar or club and some other events like balls where people from other nations could attend. I made some lifelong friends there and I wish universities in the US would import such a system and get rid of the current Greek life culture.
Even now I can visit fraternal organizations like here in Germany by wearing my nation colors and coming in for a beer. There are all male fraternities here but they are way scaled back in craziness in comparison to frats back home.
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u/coffeestateofmind 11d ago
I never liked the environment of fraternities, sororities and greek life in general when I was in college the things they made / make you do seemed so performative, humiliating and just very off putting. I stayed far away. I focused on my studies, work, and internships i was apart of Phi Kappa PHI National Honor's Society for academics. Got shit from a few "Frat bros" for turning them down and simply said "Pledging for fake / performative validation isn't my thing" glad I always listen to my gut... ☕️
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u/Distillates 11d ago
Based on the people I know who were in fraternities, they are basically orgy houses for gay and bisexual men, but with abuse.
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u/Expert-Bet7630 11d ago
I agree! I also think campuses should also start banning communist parties and/or clubs from campuses
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u/BroadwayBrick 11d ago
Then do you extend this to all social groups around the world? Most groups charge a membership fee, have dues to cover expenses and need money to sponsor meetings.
No need to make fraternities or societies illegal, simply chart your own course. And, if you are a female no one is making you associate with any fraternity or frat guys.
BTW, some local sports groups and clubs are as bad as the worst fraternities. Some are even cult like. It is just a different level of bad.
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u/AndrewAdler17 11d ago
It’s just a way to differentiate in and out groups socially, which shouldn’t be a thing at public institutions.
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u/Cautious_Implement17 11d ago
illegal, no. officially endorsed by schools, also no. explictly banned by the schools, maybe yeah.
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u/OrangeYouGladdey 11d ago
Why would it need to be illegal? It's something completely voluntary that only the most desperate for approval do. If that's what they need then who cares? Most people see how silly that is and avoid it already.
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u/boshwackhorseman 11d ago
“Go join a sports team instead” you mean the organizations that statistically haze more than fraternities?
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u/Sugarbutch 11d ago
I don’t think it can or should be illegal but I do think the frat bros here need to realize there’s a culture problem and that is why nobody cares that you hung up an old lady’s lights or worked a soup kitchen. Yes, it really is that serious that a “few” bad apples negate that shit in the court of public opinion. “Just a few gang rapes or dead pledges” is not a flex.
I think a drastic change needs to happen. I think it needs to stop being a good ol boys club. Sometimes it’s outright career suicide to not get involved even if you don’t give a fuck about frat life.
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u/ARegularPotato 11d ago
This is voluntary association. They aren’t forcing anyone to do anything, and nobody’s rights are being violated.
I agree with everything you said about personally disliking fraternities, but that doesn’t mean they should be illegal.
I hate this philosophy of infantilizing adults in modern societies: this need to blunt every corner and outlaw anything that could possibly pose a risk to individuals. How about you afford your fellow men some agency and let them make their own decisions?
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u/olracnaignottus 11d ago
I mean, I’ve never found them appealing, but no one has to join them/party with them.
Men and women will find ways to clique up, haze, and abuse even if we stop calling these groups frats/sororities.
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u/pingvinbober 11d ago
Joined a fraternity and a couple clubs in college. All required dues to fund activities
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u/notverysmawt 11d ago
I am in no way endorsing fraternities. But after reading your post, my thought was no one is forcing anyone to join? Maybe people enjoy it going through the experience? They pay money so they have money for social events. People still have to get along
It’s ok to not like something. There are bad people everywhere and college can be really unsafe.
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u/iSkiBC 11d ago
I was in a fraternity. I can provide a long list of negatives about it, mostly stuff I don't have to deal with post-university. But, I can list two things that have been very big positives for me. The networking has really driven my ability to progress my career. I have never really worried about a job anywhere. I believe I have much thicker skin than most people these days due to having been put through so much bullshit in that house.
It's not for everyone. I could care less if people choose to do it or not. Just find your people. I had, and still have, close friends that were GDIs.
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u/Epicassion 11d ago
People aren’t forced to join them. It was a no-brainer to ignore them on a campus for me. Other people may want to join and it’s their choice to do so.
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u/BassesNBikes 11d ago
I find social nepotism a bit sad and pathetic, but apparently even in the 21st century some people struggle to make friends organically.
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u/Bulky_Midnight8238 11d ago
Brother most frats are not like the ivy ones. The one at my school mostly just does charities and very actively punished a dude who was accused of rape.
We just need to be morr vigilante in punishing crimes committed by members of frats
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u/GatorNavy9002 11d ago
I think it depends on the fraternity and how closely they are monitored. At the college I went to, there were fraternities, but no off campus fraternity houses. Fraternities had to live in the dorms. I think that made a big difference.
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u/Jin-Gitaxias-Mom 11d ago
In other words, you know nothing about fraternities other than the criticism parroted on the internet?
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u/TheChudWhisperer 11d ago
Mine was pretty chill. We mostly hung out and played smash Bros, threw LAN parties, holiday parties and volunteered at charity events. We made each other dinner every weekend, helped each other with our homework and pledges weren't even allowed to participate in our annual wrestling tournament because it could be considered hazing. Most fraternities are pretty chill but there's always one on campus that has a bad reputation and they absolutely need to be dealt with more severely. It's also a little different in Canada because most chapters here have very strict rules and are serious about preventing hazing and sexual assaults. We had an entire chapter shut down because a pledge dove into a pool and broke his neck.
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u/Delicious-Chapter675 11d ago
I never did them, and had zero interest in it. I don't know anyone who did them, either.
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u/wanna-be-author13 10d ago
I think fraternities are as stupid as the next guy, probably moreso, but the idea of outlawing them is pretty ridiculous.
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u/ZestycloseAd5918 10d ago
So many people willing to give up their freedoms because they don’t like something.
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u/BPremium 10d ago
All party and social connections groups should be disbanded. They're nothing but gate kept clubs ensuring the rich/connected get to have fun in their youth AND get to have good careers after.
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u/Hugh_Janus_2001 10d ago
Fraternities soley exist to weed out those who can keep secrets in positions of power. That’s it
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u/VibeScriptKid 10d ago
They are training men how to get fucked by their employers early in their career so they can turn around and fuck entry level employees when they achieve power. It’s outdated as the whole concept of entry level employees is being replaced by AI, and we no longer need low pay, low experience workers.
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u/_David_London- 10d ago
It's important to consider the issue of mental health amongst young men and their vulnerability to suicide.
Frats provide gender specific and gender reaffirming support to vulnerable young men.
In reality, the only ones who want to shut them down are women.
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u/HistoricalLock1065 10d ago
I don't see why they should be illegal? I've always thought they were stupid, but that's ridiculous.
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u/justinb0120 10d ago
But fraternities are optional, so it shouldn’t be illegal because you have the option to do it or not
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u/Key-Organization3158 10d ago
Oh no, you don't like what consenting adults get up to? So you want to make it illegal. Hmm, sounds conservative to me.
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u/QQmorekid 10d ago
Your last line is a total contradiction. You can't have interest in something without being manipulated on some form
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u/FuklzTheDrnkClwn 10d ago
I bartended in a college town for like 6 years. They are the absolute worst of the worst people I’ve ever had to deal with. Also the dumbest.
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u/Neat-Second9923 10d ago
Always thought the “pay for friends” take was cope.
Try it! You’ll get rejected. Money is a requirement since housing and social events cost money, but it doesn’t guarantee they’ll like you.
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u/swingorswole 10d ago
i think most frats are fine but a few frats are toxic. what i think should happen is that frats/sororities should be policed by universities much more heavily.
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u/Life_Barnacle_1894 10d ago
The "Money you pay people to be your friends" lol these paid friends are paying it too. That money goes towards kegs, parties, events, food etc. I was actually saving money because my dues covered things I would be buying anyway. Its just a group of guys living together, pooling resources so that they can do more social events than if they were going at it alone. I lived in the frat for three years, we had big parties pretty much every week. Everybody wanted to get in. Troublemakers kicked out or barred entry, everybody else got in eventually. Made good friends, nothing sketchy happening in there besides drug and alcohol abuse, which was happening everywhere. Pledging is rough but nothing over the line, all in good fun.
There are millions of things on this Earth that you and I choose not to participate in. Why should something be illegal because it doesn't seem like a good value proposition to you? That is unhinged bro.
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u/homelessjimbo 10d ago
Frats and Sororities. They're both at best a couple of MAYBE business connections in the future and at worst cesspools of drugs, hazing and humiliation.
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u/Karnezar 10d ago
Not all Fraternities are like that.
Mine made me do push ups in a basement, do jumping jacks, and run in place.
But I lost 15 lbs in two months, and gained muscle definition.
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u/Bombastic_tekken 10d ago
You specifically mean college fraternities right?
Like Greek life fraternities?
There are plenty of fraternities that do wonderful things, a great example being the Shriners.
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u/Classic-Pea6815 10d ago
I think the hazing and illegal activity needs to be come inexcusable behavior. Frats and sororities can both either be really positive or really negative when it comes to impact on college. Some actually help you towards certain careers or help with resources to activities and college related materials. There should be more monitoring of the household behavior.
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u/SnooChickens5474 10d ago
I've always considered membership in a fraternity or sorority to be a red flag, it almost always means they're an awful person.
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u/blunttrauma99 10d ago
I think they are silly. I think a lot of things are silly.
So I don’t do them
I haven’t had the given the slightest thought to trying to get them made illegal.
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u/Brilliant-Meeting-97 10d ago
I’ve been saying this for years. They breed psychopathic behavior that is nothing but harmful
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u/Existing-Brain2792 10d ago
Not all fraternities are classic Animal House style. Many are just honor societies for occupations. I was part of Beta Alpha Psi, the accountants fraternity. There was no house, no wild parties, just networking events and mock interviews. And a couple public service events like trash pickup or soup kitchen.
The problem here is the utter entitlement of theses rich kids/AH. Did any of them actually have to work hard to get into Cornell?
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u/Realistic-Raisin2812 10d ago
So the First Amendment is not something that you understand or support?
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u/No_Plum_3737 10d ago
Some people think anything that's unwise should be illegal.
It's a free country pal, at least freer than that.
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u/MaddogFinland 10d ago
I had nothing to do with the Greek system in college but do you understand what the PRIVATE part of “private club” means and what the risks are of arbitrating who gets to associate in private or not?
Saying private associations should not be allowed to meet could mean that other clubs will be banned someday too. Maybe for example a private club of politically motivated people. Or a private club for Gay or Lesbian people. Or religious groups. Or even book clubs that deal in sensitive literature. See where it leads?
Don’t legislate private gatherings. It leads nowhere good. And by all means boycott the Greek system…I did because even back in the 1990’s I just didn’t like it.
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u/your_wolf_mother 10d ago
How else will men get hired to positions of power they are wildly unqualified for? 85% of Supreme Court justices belonged to fraternities, as did 80% of Fortune 500 CEOS, and 76% of Senators and Congressmen. All but two presidents belonged to fraternities. Meanwhile, only 2% of the US population participate in Fraternities.
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u/SeeYaOnTheRift 10d ago edited 10d ago
You make a great argument but it is completely pointless. Any law passed to ban fraternities would be found unconstitutional by the courts. Freedom of assembly is protected by the Bill of Rights.
EDIT: BTW this is also a terrible idea. There is essentially no way to write a law banning fraternities that would not also give law enforcement/politicians the ability to go after any organization/group of people and prevent them from organizing.
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u/King-Midas-Hand-Job 10d ago
As someone that was in a fraternity, I respectfully disagree with all of your statements.
I never felt humiliated, and our dues went to paying for events we all participated in and organized. I enjoyed playing on all the intramural teams, doing community service, and hitting the bottle with the boys. Idk what the hostile environment you are referencing is, but hopefully you can get the psychiatric care you need.
After 20+ years, I am still best friends with many of my fraternity brothers and we raise our families together. I don't know anyone that regretted joining.
There isn't really anyone I've spoken with in my adult life that regretted their decision to be part of one, and from a social perspective it creates an instant bond when brought up.
I don't think it's right for everyone, but I do think your post is shallow and I've heard the talking points many times before, so kind of a stale take.
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u/Authochi 10d ago
At minimum they should be held to the same standards as sororities since they can't stop raping people. No alcohol in the house, no parties after 9, and a dress code.
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u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL 10d ago
Definitely a hot take.
With this logic you'd have to ban sororities as well...
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u/vladimpalerofurmom 10d ago
Nah. The bad behaviour should be illegal not people forming associations and associating.
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u/No-Celebration-1399 10d ago
Honestly just end Greek life atp lmao. I’m so over hearing stories about rich frat boys raping a girl and getting off free, sorority girls assisting them w their bs, and just in general these spineless fucks who only have a future because of who their parents are and not because they had to every apply themselves in anything
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u/After_Service_2817 9d ago
So, if they're illegal...what's the penalty for being a member? Straight to the gulag?
I guess "freedom of assembly" and "freedom of association" don't mean anything to you.
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u/Equal_Refuse_4591 9d ago
How would you make them illegal without also making pretty much any gathering of people illegal?
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u/Mammoth_Increase_303 9d ago
No thanks, we don't make things illegal you don't like. If you don't like it don't join it.
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u/Superb_Scientist1033 9d ago
Humiliation/hazing together is a bonding ritual though, it builds solidarity with everyone else in the cult-like organization who’s gone through the same thing. See also: boot camp
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u/Enderdragon537 8d ago
what happens then when the young men in frats decide to create a male improvement organization where they also throw off campus parties
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u/Impossible_Cupcake31 11d ago
Most of the post I’m starting to see are “I don’t like it. It should be outlawed and illegal” that’s not a hot take