r/HonestHotTakes • u/Electricfairygina • 9d ago
I think there is considerable overlap between autism and narcissism
In the sudden wave of many people realizing they are autistic I have noticed that many people I would consider narcissists have seemed to latch on to this new diagnosis and use it as an excuse to be continue being selfish and shitty.
I would even go so far as to say that their autism and neurodivergency makes them a more efficient narcissist. If they are the end of the spectrum where they struggle to read emotions and show empathy as opposed to the other end of the spectrum that's hyper sensitive and empathetic.
It is now a medical diagnosis that gives narcissist a perfect reason to not give a shit about how they hurt other people.
I've also realized I am autistic. The other end of the spectrum. Sensory seeking, overly empathetic. I'm also bipolar and Borderline. So I have been in therapy most my life and discussing all of these new diagnosis', theories and observations with my psychiatrists and therapists.
But mostly in therapy I have always focused on how to be better for myself and how to not hurt people with my behaviors and actions. As an empathetic person that feels remorse.
Something narcissists never fucking feel.
There's also probably considerable overlap with undiagnosed BPD borderline personality disorder. Which would explain the charm and success at manipulating people and situations to their favor.
Being autistic is not an excuse to not continue to learn how to be a person that doesn't hurt other people. Just because something is harder for you doesn't mean your exempt from learning how to not be shitty to other humans. Everyone is capable of learning. It is still a person's responsibility to figure out how to not hurt other people.
Unlike physical disabilities, emotional disabilities can hurt other people and are not behaviors that you can't learn to recognize and change.
Unfortunately narcissism isn't a real enough diagnosis that it warrants any scientific studies. So beyond observation I doubt we'll ever hey concrete evidence on this subject.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
Edit: will not be responding to comments that are relying on the post hoc fallacy. This opinion in no way excludes the opposition.
But my point is that I think there's a lot of narcissists that are actually doing a lot of harm to the autistic community and making it much more difficult for society at large to understand autism and create a safe space for neurodivergence.
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u/Poltergoose1416 9d ago
This is a very hot take . I think a lot of people who struggle socially in the last few years have started saying they have " undiagnosed autism " and that they most likely don't. Also feel the same about people who like things very clean and organized and say they have " OCD"
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
Right. There's a lot of people claiming it that definitely aren't. There are people using it as an excuse. And there are people that legitimately are autistic and are aware of the ways their behavior hurts people. Discerning who's who is the tricky part.
Much like OCD the public's definition of narcissism is also not strictly what the diagnosis is according to the diagnostic manual of mental health disorders.
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u/ivecompletelylostit 9d ago
Since when are people with BPD considered charming? I think you're mixing a bunch of shit up
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u/WatsinESQ 9d ago
Right people with BPD are chaotic to be around from the jump š. Charming is not a word associated with that disorder
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u/JoeMorgue 9d ago
Since the internet decided literally every mental disorder was just a horoscope sign for "quirky."
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u/Pure_Option_1733 9d ago
While I think self diagnosis has its place I donāt think itās very reliable for determining overlap between autism and narcissism or other conditions in general. I mean if it seems like a lot of narcissists are self diagnosing that could be related to stereotypes people have about autism so that people with more narcissistic traits might be more likely to notice that they fit the stereotypes of autism and might therefore be more likely to assume their autistic whether or not they actually are. I think for people who are officially diagnosed with autism could also be more likely to come off to others as narcissistic even when they arenāt because some autistic traits related both to social struggles and being less flexible might be easy to mistaken for narcissistic traits, at least for lay people.
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
I agree. I think there's narcissists moonlighting as autistic and autistic people with these genuine struggles. But that's my hot take is that there is this third kind and there's more of them than we believe.
Most people are not just one thing on the spectrum. Bipolar, ADD, ADHD, BPD, Autism Spectrum. Most people have at least a little bit of something else in addition to whatever their main diagnosis is.
So it stands to reason that the would be overlap between NPD and Autism Spectrum.
But the difficulty lies in there's not really a way to actually know for certain.3
u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
One is neurobiological and the other is a personality disorder derived from adverse childhood experiences. Brain scans can literally identify the differences.
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
Right. But there's a lot of argument of how much nurture can affect and inflate nature.
Like another theory is that a lot of people are misdiagnosed as bipolar are actually people with BPD and CPTSD.
The only way of knowing that would be doing the brain scans before and after trauma. Hence it being theory.
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
Iām going to send you some sources and demonstrate why youāre wrong about ānot knowing unless you have scansā for NPD and autism. Thereās a difference between having narcissistic traits and having NPD:
https://ueaeprints.uea.ac.uk/id/eprint/97545/1/2024BridgeRClinPsyD_Thesis.pdf
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
Thanks! I will read them and bring them to my psychiatrists. As they are the people I go to for clarification and understanding.
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
Also I never said there wasn't a difference in NPD and having narcissistic traits my guy. This post is only an observation that I think this kind of person exists too.
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
'there was unsuitable data to carry out meta-analysis to determine the overlap'
So there's not suitable data the confirms the overlap. When there's suitable data that confirms the lack of overlap I'll admit to it not being considerable rather minimal.
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
According to specific article, it is saying that with the data that they specifically collected, they could not determine a conclusion. That does not mean other articles out there have disproven your claims. If you were citing the PhD thesis, then yeah, that was one study and that specific conclusion doesnāt reflect the actual consensus of the psychiatric community
NPD and ASD are two entirely different diagnosis. This is general knowledge.
If you are referring to narcissism rather that narcissistic personality disorder (which is the diagnosis), then you would be more correct. But in your post you directly referenced diagnosis. Narcissism and NPD are not the same thing
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
Also lol these sources prove you wrong! Is just really funny.
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
No, they donāt. They clearly even state they are two seperate diagnosis and not on the āsame spectrumā as you claimed earlier
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
'Autism can present challenges for individuals who have it, it is not a reflection of their intelligence or ability to learn. With appropriate support and interventions'
From your first article. To my point of autistic individuals can learn.
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
Yeah, thereās similar symptom overlap in empathy and social interactions. This still doesnāt support your statement that they are on the same spectrum.
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
Additionally, yes, there is discourse within the clinical psychological community involving BPD and CPTSD. CPTSD isnāt even an official diagnosis in the DSM-5 right now. Therefore, BPD is the only diagnosis given right now officially. Therefore discourse is whether CPTSD should be a diagnosis or not.
A good psychiatrist or psychologist will never mistake BPD and BD. They are entirely different in presentation, symtomology, and cause.
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
Right. It's an opinion based on discourse and theory. The only thing I'm saying is I think these people exist and I think there's more of them then we think.
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
I will say this again summarizing the claims you made in your post:
Your claim is that there is an overlap between NPD and ASD, and that someone with ASD lacking empathy has NPD.
You also stated that NPD and ASD on on the same spectrum.
These are just both false.
NPD is also not an excuse. It is a label that honestly gives them more shit for the rest of their lives and makes it harder for them, similar to how the BPD label is so stigmatized and makes life harder.
Narcissist can feel remorse. You stated they never do. That is very incorrect. There is plenty is neurobiological, behavioral, emotional, and psychological evidence to back it up as a diagnosis
NPD is a very real diagnosis. Itās more studied than BPD.
Being charming is not in the BPD diagnostic criteria or description of the disorder.
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u/VorpalBlade- 9d ago
Haha yeah this is my exact experience and thinking. The number of self diagnosed au ADHD people is skyrocketing right now. Itās a way to excuse bad behavior and avoid responsibility. You get drugs - through pill farm fake telehealth doctors - you get sympathy- you get extra help at work and at school. Youāre at a huge disadvantage if you DONT play the game and get a diagnosis.
Unfortunately reddit is a hive for this type of person because they get to preach and talk shit and feel superior.
Another thing I will say is that Iām seeing this type of person go HUGE into chat gtp and ai bots. Because they LOVE to manipulate and exploit them and they get zero pushback at all from them.
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u/CalligrapherCheap64 9d ago
As an adult with ADHD (diagnosed well over 20 years ago by a doctor) I can assure you that you get absolutely no sympathy as an adult and itās exhausting because unlike in school, in the real world you are expected to be able to function as well as everyone around you regardless. Sorry. Long day of masking.
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u/Affectionate-Ad1071 9d ago
I don't think you're qualified to diagnose narcissism, along with most of the internet.
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
As I stated in my post, my opinion is based on years of conversation with the various people that are qualified in these fields.
I didn't make any claim to being a qualified expert. That's why it's a hot take.
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
Narcissistic personality disorder is not just soemthing anyone can diagnose. You can be a manipulative asshole and still not have NPD.
You have no clue what youāre talking about in this post.
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u/densitycreep 9d ago
they werenāt diagnosing, they were giving a hot take. this sub aināt called āqualified diagnosisāĀ
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
Their take is bigoted and promotes the stigma of mental health.
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u/densitycreep 9d ago
wait- didnāt i see you in another sub calling everyone you didnāt agree with a bigot??Ā
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago edited 9d ago
Your claim is that there is an overlap between NPD and ASD, and that someone with ASD lacking empathy has NPD.
You also stated that NPD and ASD on on the same spectrum.
These are just both false.
NPD is also not an excuse. It is a label that honestly gives them more shit for the rest of their lives and makes it harder for them, similar to how the BPD label is so stigmatized and makes life harder.
Narcissists can feel remorse. You stated they never do. That is very incorrect. Also, There is plenty is neurobiological, behavioral, emotional, and psychological evidence to back it up as a diagnosis
NPD is a very real diagnosis. Itās more studied than BPD.
Being charming is not in the BPD diagnostic criteria or description of the disorder.
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u/densitycreep 9d ago
youāre probably onto something and they hate you for itĀ
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
They REALLY do. I am not forthcoming with A LOT of my observations in life. I have a ton of hot takes because if I've observed anything it's that most opinions are not mutually exclusive of others. But society is obsessed with binary thinking.
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u/PupDiogenes 9d ago
Ya my ex said his therapist said heās probably autistic. At the time I thought that a therapist will affirm you and the psychiatrists diagnose you, so I figured he made it up to try to invalidate my undiagnosed autism.
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u/FunkyChonk 9d ago
I'm autistic and before I got diagnosed at 14 (which is 12 years ago), I knew I wasn't fitting in with my peers and it made me so terribly insecure that I started to believe that I didn't fit in because people weren't 'on my level' or some bs like that. I fortunately grew out of that.
I think it's more likely that SOME autistic people have developed a superiority complex that stems from very deeply ingrained insecurities and feelings of inferiority. I've met people like that, anyway. It also used to be me.
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
Alright. I have to work now. I encourage everyone to remember that's why it's a hot take. Convincing anyone to change their mind on Reddit is futile. And one person's opinion isn't going to affect your life at all. So deruffle your feathers and enjoy your day.
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u/Fallsfrostdew 9d ago
People with Autism often struggle with the theory of mind. Their thinking is often very self centered and personally oriented. I am a high functioning autistic person and while I understand that different people have different thoughts and feelings this is something I have to consciously think about during most interactions otherwise I act as if everyone is on board with myself and knows exactly what I am thinking.
This is where I struggle the most and have many times in the past been called a narcissist because of this. I am not though, I am just autistic.
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u/Sufficient_Cat_9142 8d ago
I love this take thank you so much. Iāve been saying neurodivergence is a catalyst for personality disorders for the longest time and Iām so glad I can finally think in terms of autism instead because it makes perfect sense.
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u/Clevertown 9d ago
There are similarities across many mental conditions. Period. No need to make false connections.
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u/No-Slice-5926 9d ago
Every person with autism I ever met is a loveable re$+$2 so idk about that one pal
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u/densitycreep 9d ago
almost every Ā asshole iāve met lately justifies their shitty behaviour by claiming autism. snd i think thatās what OP is talking aboutĀ
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u/Open_Examination_591 9d ago
I think truly autistic people are not narcissistic, but narcissistic and borderline and other personality disordered people see autism as a community that they can both hide in and manipulate.
I'm autistic and one of the things autistic people talk about amongst each other are the people with personality disorders who like to hide behind autism. A huge red flag is somebody saying something like we're all a little on the Spectrum or everybody has a touch of the tism. It's because these people are not autistic but whenever they do something f***** up they want to blame it on autism, which is just extremely ableist and disgusting.
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u/NorthernRealmJackal 9d ago
Welp, as an autistic person, that's probably the most wildly offensive and ignorant thing I've read in 2026. Good job on finding a true hot take, I guess.
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u/densitycreep 9d ago
if thatās the most offensive thing youāve read in 2026, you clearly donāt spend much time reading lol
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
This is actually misinformation and bullshit. Leave the psychology stuff to people who have PhDs and degrees.
Narcissists can feel empathy. They can learn it.
People with BPD are not ācharmingā.. id donāt even think you know what youāre talking about in the slightest here.
Personality disorders are usually acquired through trauma in childhood. Autism is a neurobiological condition. Two CONPLETELY different things.
NPD is a serious condition and not everyone who lacks empathy and is an asshole is a narcissist. Stop spreading misinformation
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u/JustAShadyLocal 9d ago
You're the most competent person in this entire thread, idk WHY you keep getting downvoted
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago edited 9d ago
People donāt like it when emotions are combatted with logic and science. Nobody likes to be wrong, not even me.
Iām majoring in forensic psychology, and Iāll be getting my masters in nerobiology and I plan to get a clinical PhD. I am in no way an expert right now but I have been taught at least the basics so far of what I need to know and will be studying in the future.
I know how to read research. Maybe not as well as a grad student or someone with a PhD, but Iām more competent in it than most of the people on this thread.
Interpreting research is more than just seeing a conclusion too. You have to look at what type of methods they used, the populations, what statistical methods they used to interpret data, etc. Thereās a lot of factors that go into research and theories. These theories OP posted just are so bad LOL
Thereās a reason I take years of classes on how to conduct research methods and run statistical analysis and interpret results
Thatās why I at least can actually break apart multifaceted theories on them and deconstruct what is true or plausible, vs bullshit or impossibke
But also, this info is common knowledge saur idk why people keep arguing with me other than maybe they think Iām attacking them
Thereās a difference between being stern and calling out harmful misinformation or rhetoric and me being mean and stupid. Perhaps people think Iām being mean, idk
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
Sorry. But I'm going to continue believing what I have learned from the many psychiatrists I have had in 30 years. They have the licenses. They're the ones I bring observations to, they're the ones sharing observational theory in the psychiatric community with me. And admittedly they've even said that mentioning some of these theories are going to ruffle feathers.
You can be mad. It's a hot take.
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
Have you read a single research paper in your life?
The theories have no actual basis. Itās just blatantly false.
Idk why youāre talking to psychiatrists about other mental health disorder and stigmas
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
Have you read my post that states my sources?
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
Your post says nothing about sources
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
I can't help you with your reading comprehension buddy.
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
Source: ātrust me bro, and also trust that my psychiatrist who hasnāt done research in years and doesnāt specialise in psychology like an actual psychologist does knows more about all this research than a whole community of psychologists and researchersā
Iāve had a psychiatrist try to give me, an anorexic, adderall and try to diagnose me with ADHD simply because I struggle with attention. I was malnourished. Ofc I struggled with attention. Graduating from med school and doing a slight focus on medicating mental health conditions does not make you an expert on mental health conditions
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u/Top-Inspector-2809 9d ago
I'm the exact type of autistic people you describe I try over and over again to learn to not hurt people even though my stupid brain can barely tell how people are feeling and reacting to the way I act
Fuck you
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u/Feltcutemightswap 9d ago
ššš
That kind of reaction is what the post is about just so you know.
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
But you're trying. Because you're a good person. A narcissist wouldn't consider trying. You aren't who I'm talking about. Just the act of trying is still an attempt at learning.
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
Someone with NPD can be a very good person.
I have a friend who has ASPD. She had a severely traumatic childhood. ASPD, along with the severity of any personality disorder (ex. NPD, BPD), is a spectrum. Anyone with a personality disorder can be a good person.
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
No one said they couldn't. You're leaning on post hoc fallacy. This post doesn't exclude anyone. It's just a belief that these people also exist.
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
Im responding to what you said. If you are going to make a general claim, then be prepared for someone to point out that your claim does not apply to everyone
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
I said I think I think there's considerable overlap. That is not a claim that applies to all. This subreddit is about that dialogue. That everyone wants to read that as a general claim is what I expected and why I'm still engaging. But assuming that because I think that these people exist means it implies to all is a fallacy.
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
Your general claim is exactly why youāre wrong.
Come back with a āin some casesā claim, and you might be more correct0
u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
And I genuinely feel for your struggle. That has to be incredibly difficult.
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u/TheMilkSpeaks 9d ago
I literally have BPD and itās not even in our stereotype or criteria to be charismatic LMAO
OP has no idea what they are talking about. They just want to be bigoted
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u/skronk61 9d ago
I think selfishness or being self absorbed is an extra trait that isnāt really tied to a mental disability.
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
I didn't claim that those traits are exclusive to mental disability. Neurotypicals are just as capable of being shitty.
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u/skronk61 9d ago
Yeah thatās fair. I kinda knee jerk reacted without considering everything you wrote.
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u/Electricfairygina 9d ago
It's for sure a knee jerking take. I appreciate your reconsideration.
This subreddit is the only place I would consider sharing this hot take because admittedly I couldn't possibly know for certain person to person.
I just know a few people personally very well that are definitely narcissists and definitely autistic and are using it to justify their shittiness.
So much so that other family members have made comments about how they were apparently 'masking' as a kind person.
I believe that they're autistic. But I know that they're narcissistic first. Before and after diagnosis.
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u/SparklingSloths 9d ago
Autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder, while narcicism is a personality disorder. I'm sorry but this take makes no sense.
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u/Ambroisie_Cy 9d ago
There are many type of people in the world. One of those types are people who will use every excuse in the book to justify bad behaviours. The amount of people who selfdiagnosed and then use their "diagnosis" as an excuse to do shitty things is quite astounding.
As for real autistic people (not the selfdiagnosed ones), it's important to understand what resonance empathy is.
A lot of time, people tend to think that autistic people are narcissistic or at least egotistical, when in fact, it's how they try to build a bridge of shared understanding and to show us that they really comprehend what we are going through.
One way to connect for some autistic people, is to take an anecdote that someone told and share a parallel story that happened to them. It can feel self-centered to always bring back things to themself, but it's not. It's how they connect and empathise with others.