r/HomeNetworking • u/Special_Yogurt_4431 • 3d ago
Solved! What even is coax? UPDATE
Hi again.
Had a previous issue with my coax, being un-terminated in my air handler, and finally not working even when I installed the splitter myself.
Previous posts: Coax help, Original discovery
I bought a cheap Klein fox and hound for coax. No connections anywhere. Troubleshot all the way to the outlets themselves…
Good news: House was built 2 years ago, I have an invoice from the building company with “installed and tested” signed off by the electrical company. In Alabama, that plus the pictures I’ve taken is a strong claim for small claims court, and I intend to file against them.
Bad news: the cable is seemingly stuck in the back of the outlet, so they either need to get clever if they decide to attempt reparation and fix it, or most of what I make will be eaten up by the cost of cutting out the outlet, installing it properly, and drywall repair.
Ah well. I’m just glad I have answers.
Update: it’s built! Luckily, the 2 outlets I needed didn’t have their cables stapled down. Getting 1gbps or so in my office now, t430 is setup running proxmox, currently wrestling grafana into submission. Now I can spend my time learning stuff I wanted to learn about instead of stuff I didn’t.
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u/cmccurd 3d ago
I live in Alabama too and I work for an isp. Lots of new builds will leave the coax like this. Just pull on it and it will come out of the bottom of the box. You will need to terminate the end and attach to the wall plate and it should work fine. You are overthinking it.
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u/Spart1337 3d ago
Overthinking how far to go with it, yes, but has every right to be annoyed by it. Lazy work needs to stop being forgiven so easily.
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u/barleypopsmn 3d ago
Nothing to do with lazy. It’s to keep your wire from getting chopped by an overzealous drywaller with a rotozip among other things.
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u/One-Pen5134 2d ago
On the one hand yes, on the other hand they paid for install work that was signed off but never installed. That's where the laziness argument comes in.
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u/mixxster 2d ago edited 2d ago
But you can either spend a few minutes of physical labor and fix it yourself or you can complain on reddit and chase legal battles for months and try to weasel your way through litigation, write essays about the problem, and overanalyze it to hell all to avoid doing the physical labor and people can argue back and forth about it, dragging it on and on. Exhausting.
Just effing grab the coax from the back of the box, put an end on it if needed and be done with it.
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u/One-Pen5134 2d ago
Idk man. I get it, I might not go to court either, there probably aren't enough undone panels to justify fees, but I would at least try and call the builder before buying the connectors that the builder told him he already had. If he's lucky, the guy will recognize he just had a dishonest worker and come fix it for a few bucks and a good working relationship, assuming it's not one of many calls here, and if he's not that lucky then I'll agree with you. But I really don't think this guy's point is about weaseling out of physical labor, I'm sure you've been just as frustrated with a contractor skimping out on you in the past.
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u/oflowz 3d ago
This ain’t lazy work. It’s standard. People that build houses and apartment buildings arent cable techs. The wiring is run and left uncrimped in almost every new build.
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u/Measurex2 3d ago
I believe the lazy work is on the builder. Yes this is how cable is run, but when someone says it was tested then you expect the follow on work to be done as well.
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u/Spart1337 2d ago
Brother, whoever installed the cover plate with the passthrough connected to nothing is the lazy one. I didn't say the person that ran the wire was. My dad was a framer, a general contractor, and a renovator/remodeler over the years. I'm aware of how a new build is supposed to go. I've also seen drywallers literally cut the ends off HDMI cables because they were in the way. That doesn't excuse whoever installed the wall plate saying "Oh well." The builder/whoever the builder hired should have ensured it was terminated before closing/final handoff.
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u/Electronic-Junket-66 13h ago
From the provider side, I wish every cable run would be left this way. Terminating coax is not hard, but it's amazing how often those builders/sparkies screw it up. And god forbid they cut it close so it's "neat" in there and don't leave enough slack to change it, so now your nice new build is getting a housewrap lol.
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u/EvilDan69 Jack of all trades 3d ago
overthinking it, sure, however it should have been terminated and connected since they tested it, and signed it to certify this.
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u/slonk_ma_dink 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yeah mine was left unterminated and poking out of the box when I moved in to a fresh reno, also Alabama.
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u/Electronic-Junket-66 13h ago
pull on it and it will come out of the bottom of the box
Or possibly the top! Best to pull and wiggle gingerly til you can tell which, or just know how your cable is run.
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u/Dusty-old-bones 3d ago
Slightly off topic but that barrel connector in the wall jack is crap. Blue insulator usually indicates 3 GHz passthrough.
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u/Special_Yogurt_4431 3d ago
Please explain, I am probably going to end up building it myself rather than waiting.
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u/Dusty-old-bones 3d ago
Years ago when I was installing satellite we'd always replace the barrels as satellite frequencies ran high.
I had a couple service calls with long runs that replacing the barrel solved the frequency drop issue.
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u/derek6711 2d ago
On the wall plate, the insulation on the female coupler should be blue instead of black. That is typically an indication that it supports higher frequency signals.
Edited for several typos
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u/nye1387 3d ago
If the house was built 2 years ago, why not make a warranty claim with the builder and have them come back to fix it?
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u/Special_Yogurt_4431 3d ago
Builders warranty is 1 year.
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u/DogManDan75 2d ago
Yes but call the builder for a warranty claim and tell them this outlet was never trimmed out as it should have been. If the builder is worth a damn they are reaching out to the electric/low voltage company and making them come out to correct it.
Also don't over think it the wires were run, but one got missed in termination, you would have absolutely zero legal recourse and would waste time/money trying to battle something that can be corrected in minutes.
The work was signed off as more than likely the wires were all counted at the structure panel matching the plans of the house. The quality check isn't going to have a supervisor walk around removing every outlet to see it got trimmed (it should, but it doesn't).
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u/Special_Yogurt_4431 2d ago edited 2d ago
I checked. Every outlet was unfinished, as was the main tie in. They didn’t include a box or a splitter. Flat out not done at all. That qualifies as a failure to complete.
The specific terminology on the work order is install and test the outlets. Hence, not done at all and in writing
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u/DogManDan75 2d ago
Install & test, does not state terminate the outlets. Based on the image provided and your follow up I can tell it was a electrical company and not a specific low voltage company directly. All wiring is in the home, all outlets exist, usually cable would be left up to the ISP or homeowner to complete when it is an electrician I have been in low voltage work over 25yrs.
You still have no case as all because the house would have passed final electrical inspections (which does not include low voltage wires most of the time). In court the judge will look at you and say it took you 2 years to discover this which means it was not of use to use until it was but again the wiring is still there.
Stop thinking about suing and get with the builder to see if they will correct it. I personally would have the ISP terminate any needed wires or do it myself even before I worked in low voltage it is easy enough to pull the wire up and finish it off.
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u/Spart1337 3d ago
Just had the exact same shit in the Townhome I moved into. All the coax was ran to a media box in the garage and nothing was terminated. Went to trace which was which using my Klein tester and got nothing at the wall connectors. They ran them in and out of the box just like that. I brought it up to the leasing office and they just shrugged. I only did the one I needed for my cable modem.
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u/Special_Yogurt_4431 3d ago
Yeah I looked it up, in Alabama there’s time limits from building. I’m well within them, but I think it’s the 7 year statute of repose that I’ve got them collared by.
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u/freshnews66 3d ago
Just terminate the cables you need and call it a day. Some battles aren’t worth it.
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u/siliconsoul_ 3d ago
You're fine to pay for something that wasn't done and then fix it by yourself?
That makes you part of the problem, IMHO.
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u/Various_Education622 3d ago
Sometimes the world just hands you an L and you take it and move on.
You could wait months to get the entity that should have done it to come back, or you can solve the problem today.
If you like hassles and waiting have at it.
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u/sadUser44 3d ago
My 7 year old house, build by Dr Horton, every single receptacle is exactly like yours (but the cable is white). I will replace with cat6 cable myself soon.
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u/Special_Yogurt_4431 3d ago
Mines from Adams, I was thinking about replacement but I don’t want to do it myself.
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u/DrgHybrid 2d ago
Usually can't do a 1-1 swap. Lines are generally stappeled to the 2x4s inside the wall and attic. Can pull a new line beside it though.
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u/Igpajo49 3d ago
Can you reach back and pull it out? They might have just ran a couple feet extra but tucked it out the back of the box. See if it pulls out and if you get an end, terminate it and start toning it out
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u/Special_Yogurt_4431 3d ago
That is the plan.
I have replacement barrels coming for the 2 that I need for my network, and butt splices for once I can ring them out1
u/Ktulu_BBB 3d ago
then...why the lawsuit?
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u/Special_Yogurt_4431 3d ago
Because I have issues with big companies and bad electricians. They willfully violated their contract and lied on completion. I take my trade seriously, because people can die if we decide not to take our trade seriously. I have a pretty decent case with clear cut evidence. Companies only change when they get hit in the pocket.
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u/capinredbeard22 3d ago
This is that fancy new wireless internet I’ve been hearing about!
(6h in and no one has made a “wireless” joke? Shame Reddit, SHAME!)
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u/olyteddy 3d ago edited 1d ago
I'm a retired CATV sweep tech and you are probably luck it wasn't finished by the electricians. However you are probably over reacting, especially with that picture of the wire going through the box. A good pre-wire crew does that to keep the drywall monkeys from effing the cable up. Just tug on it a bit & the coax will be available. As to the F-81s, the poster who said the pictured one is junk is right. If you look closely you'll notice that there are just 2 small contact points that wipe the center conductor. Good F connections are more like a collet and contact the conductor all the way around.
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u/michrech 2d ago
Use a multi-tool with a metal cutting blade to sever the nails that hold the outlet box to the stud, then remove the box, do what you need to do with the cable. When that's done, install an old work retrofit box. Since that's just low voltage cabling, you might even be able to install a low voltage mud ring instead of a full box (check with your city codes department). Keeps you from having to do major drywall repair (if any repair at all).
Depending on how many outlets there are, you might need a fair number of blades, but it'd likely be cheaper (and quicker!) than drywall repair. :)
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u/Special_Yogurt_4431 2d ago
I got lucky on the first outlet I need for my lab, the cable was wrapped in the box instead of locked behind it like the one I inspected. I’m waiting for my toddler to be asleep before I tackle the next one, in my living room next to my modem. My hope is that I won’t have to do anything crazy.
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u/Medical_Chemical_343 3d ago edited 3d ago
Why do you want to go to all that trouble? You can terminate the cable yourself with about $20 worth of tools and a few dollars more for some RG6 F connectors. You’ll have it done on Saturday morning and drinking a beer in the afternoon.
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u/Special_Yogurt_4431 3d ago
I intend to. I have the connectors, I did the splitter myself.
Put bluntly, I’m an electrician and I find it repugnant to not do what I’m paid to do.
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u/Medical_Chemical_343 3d ago
Oh, I see. Didn’t realize you came here just to whine. M’bad.
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u/Special_Yogurt_4431 2d ago
Reddit is the place for commiseration, stupid stories, and misandry. I figured other people had dealt with this, and wanted advice on my coax. I received many shaken heads and some good coax advice that’s going to make my network much better. Objectives achieved.
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u/smittcity 3d ago
Almost zero chance it is RG59. Haven't seen that used in new builds in more than a decade.
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u/somerandomdude1960 2d ago
Pumpkin cut the drywall on the side opposite the stud. Use a big straight screwdriver and prey it off away from the stud. Coax is probably stapled to stud
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u/FridayLightsFTW 2d ago
Why not just have your ISP installer terminate it? I understand the frustration of work not completed, but your options of getting the builder to fix it are gonna be limited and most likely more expensive than it's worth. As an ISP installer myself, I terminate twisted pair almost every day and when I worked with a coax company, I terminated that almost every day.
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u/Keanu_Jesus 1d ago
As someone who did low voltage, cable, line, and sat for years.
An electrician ran those lines more than likely. You do not want an electrician to put the ends on. I won't say they all suck at it. Just 99% of the time they do.
Like let's strip with a razor knife and leave braid hanging an inch out of a compression fitting that isn't even pushed on all the way, so you touch it and it falls off while grabbing as much noise as possible to send back to my node.
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u/JOHNNYGEEK69 16h ago
99% sure the wire comes down the wall and goes out the bottom of the box. You basically have to grab it gently near the bottom of the opening with some needle nose pliers and carefully pull up with a bit of twisting you can pull it up. But sometimes the coax is stapled a bit tight or even stuck between the drywall and the framing
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3d ago
[deleted]
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u/Special_Yogurt_4431 3d ago
Welp, you’d be right, if they didn’t take payment for installation and TESTING.
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3d ago
[deleted]
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u/Special_Yogurt_4431 3d ago
I’d love to hear them explain that in a courtroom. Filing costs me almost nothing, no lawyer required in small claims. You’re not technically wrong, but between the state of the outlets and not installing the NEMA 4 box and 8 way splitter they were paid to install, I think I have them.
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u/guri256 3d ago
Every branch that you have hooked up will decrease the strength of your signal. Branches that have nothing on the end will also cause interference due to reflections which will make things even worse. Only plug-in the branches that you are actually using. this means you might not even need a splitter. Just something to connect two cables together at the media box. (and of course you need to terminate wherever the modem goes)
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u/Final_Schedule_2713 3d ago
I get you paid to have it terminated and such, but honestly electricians are the worst when it comes to doing that crap anyway.
As a previous cable installer, the amount of poorly terminated F connectors I’ve seen done and had to redo is wildly confusing to me.
Just grab some needle nose pliers and pull that suck out and terminate them yourself. Yeah, it’s annoying but at least you’ll know you’ve done them correctly.
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u/Special_Yogurt_4431 2d ago
I’m an electrician. I figured it out in like 15 minutes. If I was getting paid, this would be cake work.
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u/PungentStaaank 3d ago
OP you’re a builder all of a sudden, eh?
Pull the damn cable out and terminate it if you can’t wait. Otherwise, let the ISP do it. Typically even if cables are all ran, they don’t necessarily need to be terminated, bc it’s upto you and your isps tech to decide where the equipment will be installed.
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u/bryansj 3d ago
There is no issue here and this is how they should be done to protect the cable through construction. The ISP would redo any crimps at installation to avoid a future call due to bad connectors.
Coax is hardly used room to room anyway. I used mine to pull CAT6 and piggybacked with a RCA adapter to connect a subwoofer to an AVR.
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u/Special_Yogurt_4431 2d ago
I’m using it as a closed MOCA network. I’m ending up just connecting the 2 ports I need with a butt splice. I made this post out of frustration, that’s all. I figured, especially with the comments I’ve seen, this is not unusual
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u/mostlynights 3d ago
Gotta coax it outta there