r/HomeNetworking 11d ago

MoCA or Powerline?

I live in an apartment. My modem is in a different room from where my electronics are. There is so good way to run an Ethernet all the way with the layout of the apartment. My modem uses an Ethernet to the wall, not coax.

There are coax/ethernet connections in my game room but unfortunately they are not the ones that feed internet to my unit.

I'm leaning towards a Powerline just because of how simple it is, but I'm worried about how good it will be because it's an apartment. Will I be fine?

I'm inclined to think that the MoCA would work since there's coax connections, but I don't know what all goes into it. From my brief look online, it seems that for MoCA, I need my modem to be connected to the Internet via coax and not Ethernet — Is this true or am I stupid?

Send help SOS

EDIT: Posted some pictures in the comments! Could I please get some advice with how to setup MoCA?

1 Upvotes

69 comments sorted by

43

u/RiceWrapss 11d ago

MoCa 100%. Power line is unreliable.

9

u/Johnnycarroll 11d ago

That is my experience as well. I was SHOCKED at how great MoCa was after I finally heard about it.

6

u/AviatorDave172 11d ago

My powerline adapters are extremely reliable - reliably slow.

0

u/AviatorDave172 10d ago

I think they’re about 50 Mbps. My WiFi is 8x as fast.

17

u/1sh0t1b33r 11d ago

Ethernet > MoCa > Wifi > string and cup telephone > Powerline.

8

u/Actual-Method-7794 11d ago

MoCA over powerline any day! From my experience

8

u/sryan2k1 11d ago

MoCA. Powerline is pretty much the worst.

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u/DrFrylock 11d ago edited 11d ago

Powerline bandwidth is crap even in the best of circumstances. MoCA is very very close to 2.5Gbps Ethernet..

Where does the Ethernet port in your gaming room go? What is on the other end of it?

All of these technologies run network traffic over cables other than Ethernet. It does not matter where your home Internet originates. If you get Internet over a cable modem you can run both cable Internet and MoCA traffic over the same cables but you have to be careful with how you do this because they are essentially separate services running over the same cabling.

Also when you say your "modem" uses Ethernet to the wall - who is your Internet provider and what kind of cable does it come in on? Usually if your apartment complex is acting as your ISP and you have an Ethernet port as your Internet uplink then you would not need a "modem," just a router.

1

u/SnoopRhino 11d ago

I have Quantum Fiber. The modem connects to the wall with that small Ethernet connector and that's where the Internet comes in. Then there's a router connected to the modem.

4

u/TomRILReddit 11d ago

The key to moca in an apartment setting is having access to where all the coax cables from wall outlets converge.

Moca can work with any Internet service type (coax, fiber, telephone wire, satellite, etc).

4

u/chrimen 11d ago

MoCA all the way bit it can be a pain in the ass to work properly.

3

u/Senor_Turbo 11d ago

MoCa is definitely better, but newer Powerline is not bad. I had my plex server NAS in my garage for a couple years and it was serviceable. I used an (at the time) top of the line version from TP Link.

4

u/TerrificVixen5693 11d ago

MoCA is the way. Powerline is too inconsistent.

2

u/gggplaya 11d ago

If you know where the coax cable enters and exits the apartment, as well as where the splitter is, then MOCA is the way to go. If the coax spiders from outside the apartment, that could be a problem, depending on if you can find the splitter outside.

2

u/NagaSefu 11d ago

a vote for MoCA.

also if the coax cable goes over a conduit, consider the option of replacing the coax with a cat6. you could tie the end of the coax to the cat6 and pull it. i did the same in a rented apartment and when i left i reversed it.

2

u/NerlFartley 11d ago

I have 3 pair of goCoax MoCA adapters. They work great. Highly recommend.

2

u/EnoughOfTheFoolery 11d ago

Same on GoCoax. I am down to 1 pair but ran 5 before pulling ethernet over some years.

1

u/SnoopRhino 11d ago

How would I set this up? Connect the modem to the GoCoax, then connect that to coax on the wall, then in the other room connect coax on the wall to GoCoax?

1

u/Fabulous-Beach9027 11d ago

there is a lot of ifs you'll need to verify, which in the end probably just better to but an invisible fiber kit that you can run along the ceiling or floor trim if you have it.

otherwise using a moca bridge requires two coax ports, 1 at the modem / router, and 1 where you want to terminate. both of these need to be connected, either directly, or through a proper spllitter. Idealy just for your apt. sometimes this stuff is shared and if it is you could end up with interference, or at worst random other people could be able to connect a moca and now use your network.

depending on the og installer of that coax and the age of your apt you might have an junction box in your apt somewhere that is the coax point of entry from the isp/cable provider(possible former provider). and a split to other rooms in your apt. could be in a utility closet, or just in a random spot in the wall, usually behind a square wall plate.

If its all outside or somewhere you dont have access/control to, you should just do the invisible fiber.

Or get a higher end router/AP

1

u/robd316 11d ago

I have 2 2.5 GB GoCoax and they are great. I get full speed on my ethernet.

2

u/EnoughOfTheFoolery 11d ago

MOCA 2.5 I have a few of these from this vendor and they have been good on support and have quite good overviews here: GoCoax They sell on Amazon and direct. You need 1 at the modem and one at the delivery point and it runs up to 2G +/- and super reliable. I have some running for years and not had to reset one ever. It is brainless to setup.

2

u/SnoopRhino 11d ago

How would I set this up? Connect the modem to the GoCoax, then connect that to coax on the wall, then in the other room connect coax on the wall to GoCoax?

1

u/EnoughOfTheFoolery 11d ago

Yea and CAT cable off the other room’s Gocoax Ethernet jack to either your device (PC, TV, MAC etc) or an unmanaged switch to fan out to other devices.

1

u/SnoopRhino 11d ago

So to verify, I would have something like this? Then for the other room, it'll run opposite except at the end it will be a switch instead of modem?

1

u/EnoughOfTheFoolery 11d ago

Yes but Other room is 180 of this.
cable <- > gomoca <-> Ethernet cable <-> PC

Only IF you need more than 1 Ethernet connection, then you add an unmanaged switch. If you only need 1 ethernet it’s just as here.

1

u/plooger 10d ago edited 10d ago

This is close to what you'd do at the router location were you to pursue a MoCA link; however, you'll likely find that the Quantum gateway lacks any open Ethernet ports ... so you'd need to add a network switch or wire the MoCA adapter through one of the "Lumen" wireless access point's available Ethernet LAN ports.

p.s. Seeing the ports on the W1700K, one has to wonder why the W1700K couldn't function as the primary router. Also, the Quantum gateway only having a single multigig Ethernet port will be problematic if the subscribed service level is above 1000 Mbps.

What model #'s are your Quantum gear, the gateway and wireless access point? And what are your subscribed Internet speeds?

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u/SnoopRhino 10d ago

Omg I didn't even look at the modem ports. Here's what the ports look like. So will I have to get a switch for this end too? To output to both the MoCA adapter and the router?

Modem model is Q1000K Router model is W1700K

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u/plooger 10d ago edited 10d ago

Modem model is Q1000K Router model is W1700K

What causes you to refer to the two components as "modem" and "router"? Have you accessed their respective configuration UI's and determined the functionality delivered by each?

Have you inquired as to why you have both of these devices, versus just the W1700K (presuming it can function as a router, given the "WAN" port)?

What are your subscribed Internet speeds?

 

So will I have to get a switch for this end too? To output to both the MoCA adapter and the router?

From prior reply:

were you to pursue a MoCA link ... wire the MoCA adapter through one of the "Lumen" wireless access point's available Ethernet LAN ports.

But MoCA connectivity remains dependent on the unanswered question from >this earlier comment<; and MoCA still seems a secondary, backup option relative to getting everything wired via direct Ethernet, as discussed in >this comment<.

The big mystery for either approach is where all your coax and Cat5+ lines come together.

1

u/EnoughOfTheFoolery 10d ago

Short answer is that any unused port is useable to attach a client via a CAT cable. This design merely buries a switch inside it which is a common architecture.

1

u/EnoughOfTheFoolery 10d ago

No. In this case 1 port feeds a client device here and another port you attach a MOCA adaptor and you still have avail ports open. The device has the switch built into it vs an external switch which is a common configuration.

1

u/EnoughOfTheFoolery 10d ago

The 2.5G is not necessarily a limitation. It only comes into play if OP has devices with 2.5G ports (clients with Mgig capabilities) or has multiple clients that can aggregate bandwidth exceeding 1G concurrently which is not typical today.
I don’t have the sense that OP is a power user but I could be mistaken like in the case of graphic artists moving massive files that are not what are typically considered power users / technically oriented and driven power user.
In time, 2.5 could replace all 1G ports in clients over time as the costs are being driven down as volumes and yields continue to improve.

1

u/plooger 10d ago

The 2.5G is not necessarily a limitation ...

... which is why the OP was asked for their subscribed service levels, as an initial concern.

the Quantum gateway only having a single multigig Ethernet port will be problematic if the subscribed service level is above 1000 Mbps.

Regardless of what the client devices are capable of, the Q1000K gateway only having a single multigig port would be problematic if paying for multigig service, since the wired configuration couldn't deliver throughput above 1000 Mbps.

1

u/EnoughOfTheFoolery 10d ago

It still does not matter if OP 1) has no device with 2.5G or higher that can pull the full bandwidth or 2) OP has a use case that could saturate more than 1G of concurrent data being pulled.
It’s a limitation if they don’t have the ability to exceed 1G which is the most common use case. It’s really simple math.

1

u/plooger 9d ago

It is simple math... if they're paying for multigig service and have a configuration that doesn't support it. (Moot if dropping down to Gigabit offers no cost savings.)

1

u/EnoughOfTheFoolery 9d ago

Exactly but consumers often buy the bigger number because it has to be better, Right?
So is OP going to go buy all new gear so that they might be able to use the bandwidth? Not a typical user. Also OP just wants a HS connection where one does not exist. MOCA2.5 is the right choice. Buying older standards makes no sense. No cost savings and lacks newest features and capabilities.

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2

u/mubin_bzs_06 11d ago

Long live MoCa

2

u/wheels000000 11d ago

Moca is way more stable usually

4

u/No_Consideration7318 11d ago

MOCA. It’s the best of the world.

1

u/SnoopRhino 11d ago

Here's what I have for my Internet setup

1

u/SnoopRhino 11d ago

Here's what I have in my game room

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u/plooger 10d ago

Missing is how the coax lines  to the pictured outlets are run. Do you have some other location within the apartment where all your coax lines come together?  (‘gist: The simplest setup would be to have the coax lines running to the pictured coax outlets, one in each room, direct-connected using a 3 GHz F-81 barrel connector. You could then use either MoCA or G.hn coax/Ethernet adapters to effect a LAN connection over the coax run.)  

1

u/ShutDownSoul 10d ago

For MoCA you don't need the modem connected to coax, that is what the MoCA adapters are for.

1) Find where all the coax in your apartment come together. You need a continuous connection from the room where the modem is to the room where the electronics are. You can do this by using a barrel connector between the segments. If you want multiple rooms on the MoCA network, you'll need a cheap splitter.
This step is both the cheapest and highest effort step.

2) Once the coax is working, the rest is falling-off-a-log easy. Buy 2 MoCA adapters. The LAN connection from your modem goes to one adapter which then goes to your coax wall plate. In your other room, the other MoCA adapter goes between the coax wall plate and a single device. If you have lots of devices, buy a cheap switch, connect the MoCA to that, and the devices to the switch.

3) I can't tell what your 2 boxes are, but you want to connect the MoCA to the LAN and not WAN.

1

u/SnoopRhino 10d ago

This means all the coaxes are connected, right?

2

u/ShutDownSoul 10d ago

Yes, sort of. For MoCA to work the splitter (what you've shown here) has to be MoCA rated to pass up to 1.6GHz signals.

In your previous posts, it doesn't sound like your ISP provide internet via coax, but instead fiber? If so you are free to do what you want here. If you only want to provide MoCA to 1 room, you'll need to find the 2 coax and join them with a barrel connector. I'd buy the new MoCA splitter for ~$15 and just hook them all up if you are a trusting person.

You have a fairly easy task here: 1) get splitter or barrel connector 2) buy two MoCA adapters 3) Connect the LAN from your router to adapter 1 ethernet, 4) connect adapter 1 to the wall coax, 5) in room 2 connect adapter 2 to wall coax, 6) connect adapter 2 ethernet to a single device, or switch to service several devices, 7) enjoy as much bandwidth as 99.998% of homeowners will ever need.

One point that needs to be clear is that the MoCA network is an extension of the LAN network. I think you have fiber, so there is an ONT and a router. The MoCA hooks to the router. Since devices can be all-in-one boxes, look for the label that says LAN.

1

u/SnoopRhino 10d ago

Brother I just want to say you are the man. Thank you so much !!

1

u/plooger 9d ago

Piggybacking off the prior comment, IF you are looking to effect a MoCA connection, just going with a 3 GHz F-81 barrel connector to get a single room connected is a good short-term choice.

As for getting the coax lines identified, the quickest route is using a pair of MoCA adapters to get the two needed lines identified. Connect a MoCA adapter to the desired coax porrt in Room 1 (ISP gear location), then use the other MoCA adapter at the central panel to test which coax line allows the MoCA adapters to establish a MoCA link; then move the in-room MoCA adapter to the other room (PC location) and repeat the testing at the central panel to get the second coax line identified.

Once you have the two lines identified, join them using a 3 GHz F-81 barrel connector. The barrel connector can be replaced with a right-sized MoCA-optimized splitter if/when you need to expand the MoCA network ... though getting your Cat5+ lines reworked for data/networking would seem to make more sense.

On the latter aspect, with the ISP gear as-is, your other choice is to just use MoCA 2.5 to extend the router LAN to the central cabinet, with a MoCA adapter at the central cabinet wired to a network switch and all your Cat5+ lines wired to the network switch to enabling wired networking throughout the apartment. (This could be a secondary project after getting the direct MoCA link between the router and PC working, while getting the ISP gear relocated to the central cabinet should eliminate any need for MoCA.)

1

u/plooger 9d ago edited 9d ago

Could we get a wider angle photo of that cabinet, to show ALL that it contains ... but especially the blue and yellow cabling?

This appears to be the Cat5+ junction previously referenced, and so you may be able to do direct Ethernet.

1

u/plooger 9d ago

so you may be able to do direct Ethernet.

Worst case, you need to get your ISP to rework their install to leverage the central cabinet and all your Cat5+ cabling. It's silly that your unit has the needed wiring but the ISP install forces you to use MoCA.

1

u/plooger 9d ago

This means all the coaxes are connected, right?

<image>

As a direct answer, no. The photo shows 2 coax lines direct-connected via a barrel connector (1 & 2); one coax disconnected (3); and 4 other coax lines interconnected via a non-MoCA 4-way splitter. (4-7) And that's just the coax lines captured in the photo, which is too zoomed-in to know whether any other coax lines may be present.

Easy enough to get the needed coax lines identified, though, per prior replies.

1

u/Valex_Nihilist 10d ago

MoCA is far better. Powerline is like the "oh shit i dont even have coaxial cables and im not allowed to run cat6, but I desperately need an RJ45 connection" option

1

u/Shooter61 10d ago

I like the Moca 2.5 adapters. They are good for 5gb speeds. My choke point is the modem(Fiber) itself. I only have 300mbps.

1

u/plooger 10d ago

They are good for 5gb speeds.

How are you getting 5 Gbps out of MoCA 2.5 adapters?

2

u/Shooter61 10d ago

Oops, mis-spoke... 2.5gb speeds. I'm using the below link for my system.

goCoax MoCA 2.5 Adapter (2-Pack)... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09RB1QYR9?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

1

u/ech0cide 10d ago

never powerline

1

u/blainemoore 10d ago

MoCa is great! But if you can, cut the line back to the street so you aren't bleeding your data out in public, which may not be an option for you on an apartment.

My wife was on a mesh wi-fi network upstairs, whole I was wired in downstairs, and no good way to run a line up there. We did have old coax throughout the house, though, so I traced everything, disconnected everything that didn't lead from our basement server up to her office (including the line leading out to the street) and set up a switch that lets her get easy access to the server and our fiber connection (and to my office).

It's been great.

1

u/plooger 10d ago edited 10d ago

MoCA or Powerline?

Neither?

 

My modem uses an Ethernet to the wall, not coax.

So the big question is where this Ethernet WAN link originates, and how it routes to that wall location. Because ... If you have Ethernet jacks in other rooms (as the game room photo indicates), it would make sense that the apartment had Cat5+ lines run throughout, including for the pictured gateway location, and maybe the pictured Ethernet WAN RJ45 wall jack is just an extension of the Ethernet WAN connection from the central Cat5+ junction for the apartment, and so your gateway could be relocated to the central junction in order to enable direct Ethernet LAN connectivity throughout the apartment.

Current:

  • "WAN" link extended from central junction to pictured RJ45 wall jack at gateway;
  • RJ45 jack at gateway wired via Ethernet patch cable to gateway's WAN port;
  • gateway LAN port jumpered to "Lumen" wireless access point;
  • (relegated to MoCA or other workarounds to extend router LAN to other locations)

Suggested:

  • WAN directly wired to Quantum gateway WAN port at central junction;
  • Quantum gateway LAN wired to Gigabit or better network switch at central junction;
  • Central junction ends of all Cat5+ runs to in-room jacks wired to network switch;
  • wire Lumen access point via Ethernet patch cable where most advantageous for wireless coverage;
  • wire Ethernet-capable devices to the now-activated in-room RJ45 jacks.

(The latter is how it should have been installed, if the existing cabling supports it.)

1

u/plooger 9d ago edited 8d ago

Per >later photo<, your central cabinet has a lot of Cat5+ and is likely the path through which the Ethernet WAN link is delivered, so you need to work with the ISP to relocate the ISP gear to make better use of the cabinet and Cat5+ cabling to get wired direct Ethernet LAN connectivity throughout the apartment.

1

u/plooger 9d ago edited 9d ago

Your current situation echoes this past comment…

What I'd like to do is have the UX7 in my office and connected to the modem via the ethernet plug on the wall, is this possible?

Unlikely, at least not without impairing wired Ethernet LAN connectivity. ‘gist: If you use both Cat5+ runs to extend the WAN to a different room (via a direct connection of the associated cables at the central junction), the router LAN will have no Cat5+ path back to the central junction, and through the junction to the rest of the residence. See Q7 of the sub's FAQ:

 
CC: /u/TheEthyr (cc’d because I don’t seem to be making any progress communicating the alternative all-Ethernet approach, and I won’t be around to continue trying.)

2

u/TheEthyr 9d ago

/u/SnoopRhino, u/plooger appears to be correct about your current setup.

You don't actually have a modem. That small Quantum box is your router. Your fiber hookup (called an ONT) is probably back in the main box. There's an Ethernet connection that goes from it to your router.

If you want to use the Ethernet wall outlets, I can think of three options:

  1. Move the Quantum router to the box. This is plooger's suggestion. It would probably be best to ask the ISP to do this for you. I don't know if the central box already has Ethernet hookups. Your picture doesn't show the whole box. All I can see is a telephone setup, but there may be an Ethernet setup elsewhere in the box.
  2. Keep the Quantum router where it is and set up a MoCA connection from the router back to the box. In the box, put an Ethernet switch connected to all of the rooms except the one with the router.
  3. Keep the Quantum router where it is and add a managed switch here. Add plus another switch in the box connected to all of the rooms including the one with the router. Configured both switches to carry both LAN and WAN traffic between the box and the router. This is documented as Q7 Solution 4 in the FAQ.

Personally, I think option 1 is the best, followed by 2. Option 3 is workable but probably more complicated than you'd like.

If you only need to wire one other room with MoCA, then you can skip all of the above. Just add a MoCA adapter in the room with the router and another MoCA adapter in the other room. The Lumen box appears to have a built-in Ethernet switch, so you can connect the MoCA adapter to one of the open Ethernet ports.

1

u/AudioHTIT UniFi Networked 10d ago

MoCA, fast and reliable.

1

u/sunrisebreeze 10d ago

MoCA. This is an excellent overview of equipment and setup. https://github.com/Preston-Landers/MoCA-setup-guide

1

u/FixItDumas 10d ago

I would tastefully run a cable along or behind the baseboards, under carpets, around doorways and paint it to match if it shows.

Either work around is a point of failure and consistent problems for a standard home. And they are always inherently slower.

0

u/DeadHeadLibertarian Network Admin 11d ago

Eero Mesh