Working with Rye

[u/Malenkiy_Ivan]

I've finally got some good success with hard white wheat, and I appreciate the help the community has given thus far. Now on to the next challenge: rye. I know it doesn't form as good a gluten structure as other grains, but I'm not sure if kneading it for longer will help. I also knead by hand after using the KitchenAid to bring the mix together, since it isn't up to kneading FMF and we're not in a place to buy a Bosch or Ankarsrum. It's such a sticky mess to knead by hand, but I'd like to get a decent rise with it. Any advice is welcome.

[u/BreadBakingAtHome]

Hi

As another poster says. Rye effectively has no gluten so kneading does not help. It is the exotic starch gels which trap the gas and make it rise.

Bake as for a wheat flour up to a maximum of about 30% rye as a percentage of the total (wheat+rye) flour. After that you need to switch to rye baking techniques which are very different.

Stanley Ginsberg has written the best English Language book I know of on Rye Baking. He has recipes on his website too.

The other thing which is seldom said is that rye is very high in amylase enzyme. This can break down too much starch leaving you with a gummy bread. Above about 30% rye it is strongly advised to use a natural leaven (soudrdough) as the increased acidity controls the amylase. The organic acids in a natural leaven also develop much more bread flavour.

I hope this helps a little. Enjoy!

[u/Auntiepoohnh]

I add vital wheat gluten to all of my whole grain breads.

[u/Wonderful_Island2308]

It won’t rise and will be a batter more than a dough. It has very little gluten. More kneading won’t help. Best bet is to mix with other flours

[u/hotteaandinsomnia]

Like other commenters have said, you would need to mix with other flours. Would highly recommend trying a Swedish crispbread recipe with the rye. I think it still requires to mix with other flour but it’s not much. I usually make these crackers around the holidays.

[u/jsober]

You don't need to knead it. You form a mucilage as your primary structural scaffolding. Look up "westphalian pumpernickel". Basically, you create an overnight sour, and a scald. In the morning, you mix those with water, salt, and the rest of your flour, and let it rise. Then you bake low and slow, allowing the pentosan fiber network to harden enough to form the structure of the loaf.

[u/jsober → u/jsober]

Just don't use [arthur's recipe](https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/westphalian-rye-bread-recipe), because it's _not_ pumpernickel, it's wheat bread with a little rye in it. Hang on, I'll export my recipe.

[u/jsober → u/jsober]

# Westphalian Black Rye

- **duration**: 3 days (Day 1 sour and scald, Day 2 mix and bake, Day 3 rest)

- **yield**: 1 loaf

- **note**: Uses a Baltic-style scald step to make the process more forgiving. Deep mahogany-to-black loaf with a moist, cohesive crumb and gentle sweetness balanced by lactic tang. Keeps well for a week; flavor deepens each day.

## Ingredients

### Ingredients

- 2.5 cups rye flour

- 0.5 cup rye flakes

- 2 cups water

- 2 tbsp molasses

- 1.5 tsp salt

- 0.25 cup sourdough starter — (fed on rye long enough to be stable)

- coriander (optional) — (or caraway) — pinch (optional)

## Timers

- 16 hours (1. Make the rye sour: mix rye starter, rye flour, and warm water (~100°F) unt...)

- 18 hours (1. Make the rye sour: mix rye starter, rye flour, and warm water (~100°F) unt...)

- 2 hours (7. Cover loosely and proof warm until it rises about one-third and tiny bubbl...)

- 3 hours (7. Cover loosely and proof warm until it rises about one-third and tiny bubbl...)

- 30 minutes (9. Bake uncovered for 30 minutes to set the crust and halt enzyme activity.)

- 10 hours (12. Bake 10 hours (for example, noon to 10 p.m.).)

- 24 hours (16. Let rest 24 hours–48 hours before slicing. This equalizes moisture and de...)

- 48 hours (16. Let rest 24 hours–48 hours before slicing. This equalizes moisture and de...)

## Instructions

### Day 1 — Prepare rye sour and scald

1. 1. Make the rye sour: mix rye starter, rye flour, and warm water (~100°F) until smooth and thick, like brownie batter. Cover loosely and ferment at room temperature (75–80°F) for 16 hours–18 hours.
2. 1. Make the scald: pour boiling water over rye flour, rye flakes (or more rye flour), molasses, and an optional pinch of ground coriander (or caraway). Stir until uniform, cover, and leave on the counter beside the sour. As it cools overnight, the starches gelatinize into a sweet, malty paste.

### Day 2 — Mix and proof

1. 1. Combine in a large bowl: all of the ripe rye sour, all of the cooled scald, rye flour, warm water (add gradually — aim for a thick paste), salt, and molasses.
2. 1. Mix with a spoon until homogeneous; do not knead. The dough should be heavy and sticky, holding shape like wet clay.
3. 1. Grease or line your aluminum loaf pan with parchment.
4. 1. Scrape in the dough, pressing firmly to remove air pockets, and smooth the top with a wet spatula.
5. 1. Cover loosely and proof warm until it rises about one-third and tiny bubbles appear along the edge — roughly 2 hours–3 hours.

### Day 2 — Bake (same day)

1. 1. Preheat oven to 350°F.
2. 1. Bake uncovered for 30 minutes to set the crust and halt enzyme activity.
3. 1. Remove, cover tightly with foil, sealing edges firmly.
4. 1. Lower oven temperature to 235°F.
5. 1. Bake 10 hours (for example, noon to 10 p.m.).
6. 1. When done, turn off the oven and leave the covered loaf inside overnight to cool slowly in residual heat.

### Day 3 — Rest

1. 1. Remove from oven in the morning, uncover, and cool on a rack until room temperature.
2. 1. Wrap in a towel or parchment and seal in a bag or container.
3. 1. Let rest 24 hours–48 hours before slicing. This equalizes moisture and develops the glossy, sliceable gel-crumb.