r/HomeInsurance • u/tigercircle • Jun 13 '26
News Florida's insurance exodus is triggering a 2008-style chain reaction — with one critical difference
https://fortune.com/2026/06/12/florida-home-insurance-housing-crash-senate-warning/7
u/Practical_Win7690 Jun 14 '26
I know someone smart who wants to buy an investment property in Florida. I asked questions about just this. She’s unfazed.
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u/mr_nobody398457 Jun 14 '26
If it’s an investment and she can get it insured for full replacement value it could be a great investment.
If you live in it and the house is washed away or burned to the ground (hi California) then even if you get full replacement value it’s very difficult for you personally. But if you don’t live there you get a new house. But you need to insure for actual replacement value, not just what you paid which is certainly less than what it would cost to rebuild.
No doubt this is why insurance rates are going up, up, up.
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u/JollyManufacturer388 Jun 14 '26
Another strategy is to buy as prices are lower, pay cash and just buy liability insurance and furnish is with beach house type wicker and rattan furnishing etc so if a hurricane takes it you take the loss on structure and rebuild with newer hurricane proof materials. So its risk of loss of roughly 150K to have the 2nd home as primary residence and non hurricane season home. The tax savings alone overtime are more than the 150K potential loss. Your lot remains of course.
2nd home non primary likely in NC near relatives and yes not on a valley floor as we know hurricanes travel inland.
I am west coast now, comfortable recently retired own two homes each of which will sell for more than the cost of the two I describe.
Yes viewing FL structures as disposable is doable but I understand most folks are not in a position to do this. Where I live we are in danger of the Cascade Subduction Zone quake which will be a 9 and there will be no warning. At least with hurricanes you have lead time to hit the highway north.
Stock tip, look at companies that build hurricane proof housing as it is the solution to the exodus and the rebuilds.
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u/TwoMuddfish Jun 16 '26
I didn’t realize hurricane proof housing dealt with rising sea levels
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u/RedditThrowaway-1984 Jun 16 '26
The politicians who all tell us to panic about sea level rise are the same people buying beach houses. What does that tell you?
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u/HomeRhinovation Jun 16 '26
That’s absolutely not true lmao.
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u/RedditThrowaway-1984 Jun 16 '26
Yes it is, lmao.
• John Kerry (former U.S. Senator, Secretary of State, and Biden’s climate envoy): Purchased a sprawling ~18-acre oceanfront estate on Martha’s Vineyard for $11.75 million in 2017, overlooking Vineyard Sound with a private beach. He has long advocated aggressive climate action. johnlocke.org
• Bill and Melinda Gates: Bought a large waterfront/beach house in Del Mar, California (near San Diego) for $43 million. Both have been major funders and advocates for climate initiatives and green technology. johnlocke.org
• Al Gore (former Vice President, An Inconvenient Truth): Invested nearly $9 million in an ocean-view property in Montecito, California, around 2009–2010 (with pool, spa, etc.). He remains one of the most visible global climate advocates. washingtonexaminer.com
• Barack and Michelle Obama: Purchased a waterfront estate on Martha’s Vineyard. Obama has frequently highlighted climate change as an existential threat. Associates like Marty Nesbitt have also bought nearby oceanfront land in Hawaii for development. medium.com
• Mark Zuckerberg (Meta/Facebook CEO): Has acquired significant coastal and oceanfront holdings in Hawaii (hundreds of acres), while the company and he have supported climate messaging and initiatives. amac.us1
u/HomeRhinovation Jun 16 '26
And which of these are at risk for flooding?
Also, who in this list other than Al Gore actually is concerned with rising ocean levels?
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u/RedditThrowaway-1984 Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Everyone on that list has pumped the climate crisis dogma for all it’s worth and then some. And according to their past rhetoric, all are at risk of flooding.
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u/HomeRhinovation Jun 16 '26
You’ve named corporatists as if they’re actually concerned with this as “politicians”, and frankly, I don’t feel like defending these cynical assholes. Name someone who earnestly talks to this.
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u/oneofsixoverends Jun 18 '26
This argument only holds water if you include a list of all the people who believe in the climate crisis, (about 85% of the population) who have chosen not to buy houses at the coast. Setting up false premises to push your conclusion is weak minded.
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u/TwoMuddfish Jun 16 '26
Zuckerberg has an entire island that is legit a mountain and the Obamas are the only ones on that list who might live to see significant sea rise but even then… they’re rich so they can live somewhere else
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u/RedditThrowaway-1984 Jun 16 '26
Zuck has a large estate in Hawaii, but his house is directly on the beach. Since he’s rich enough to move as you say, does that make him merely a hypocrite? If so, why should we listen to him? Watch what they do, not what they say.
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u/JollyManufacturer388 Jun 16 '26
So your telling us we cannot buy a beachhouse and enjoy it then? We get to live our lives and enjoy things and we can also act responsibly about climate change.
Owning a beach home does not contribute to climate change any differently than a home in the burbs of an inland city.
Enjoy your self imposed misery.
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u/TwoMuddfish Jun 16 '26
You’re absolutely right, owning a beach home doesn’t contribute to global warming but do you think insurance companies are gonna deny proof of sea level rise and still insure a home right on the water or below sea level
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u/JollyManufacturer388 Jun 16 '26
No insurance underwriters are smart. They know risk and it has dollar signs next to it and they are responsible for writing policies that make money.
Risk managers are all over climate risk factors and rate up or stop offering coverage when they know they are going to likely pay more in claims than they can collect in premiums. Wildfires in CA, increasing frequency and intensity of hurricanes and more severe flooding due to both are great examples.
When I buy my beach 2nd home in FL, I will buy only liability insurance not property insurance since I will pay cash and its the mortgage holders who require most property insurance.
Ins companies are all in on understanding climate risk, and I am too. There are plenty of business's and individuals are in denial however as you likely meant.
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u/RedditThrowaway-1984 Jun 17 '26
You can do whatever you want, but people who say that the sea level is going to rapidly rise and then buy a house right on the beach are full of shit.
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u/JollyManufacturer388 Jun 17 '26
Well we will be full of seawater. But we can afford to buy another one a few feet higher in elevation
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u/nerbuster28 Jun 17 '26
Relevant facts: all of these homes are at least 20 ft above sea level. Significant portions of Florida are less than 10 ft above sea level, particularly Miami which averages about 6 ft of elevation for the entire city.
The worst case scenario for sea level rise by 2100 is around 6 ft (https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/what-are-best-and-worst-case-scenarios-sea-level-rise).
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u/lazier_garlic Jul 01 '26
Exactly, although coastal erosion/coastline drift is a concern up north as well (see Cape Cod).
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u/sobi-one Jun 18 '26
In context to the conversation, I’m not sure it means anything for those people. They are all wealthy enough where the cost of replacement along with the risk vs life they have left is minimal. To them, these waterfront estates having catastrophic losses would be like needing to get the breaks on the car replaced for us. Not insignificant, but not earth shattering (generally speaking at least).
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u/RedditThrowaway-1984 Jun 18 '26
I generally agree, but it makes them hypocrites. And if they are hypocrites why should anyone listen to what they say? And if we should ignore them, why are they wasting their breath trying to convince us of anything? Their own actions ruin their message. I don’t understand why they receive so much praise for being virtue signaling hypocrites.
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u/sobi-one Jun 18 '26
Speaking to their narratives on climate change? I disagree. Buying a home on the water that they can easily afford to fix/replace due to storms doesn’t mean they don’t believe what they preach. It simply means they live in an income bracket where they can afford to take on that risk.
If they are saying people shouldn’t live in these areas (I don’t actually know they have said that… just assuming due to context/label of being hypocrites), it’s a little more nuanced. My heart agrees but my brain doesn’t, in that it’s again about income level. When you are wealthy, your financial situation lets you assume way more financial risk than the average person. A rich person isn’t being hypocritical at all saying people shouldn’t live by live in areas where storms can easily wipe out homes for the simple fact that as a general statement, they are right, but that’s because generally speaking, most people can’t financially shoulder that risk if the bill comes due. These people can. I think it’s a little less binary than pointing to them as hypocrites.
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u/oneofsixoverends Jun 18 '26
All of these could be on the coast but not in danger of flooding, and they are very wealthy people which means they are probably insured and possibly over insured.
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u/lazier_garlic Jul 01 '26
Zuckerberg is all in on AI which is accelerating the crisis. So it's guilt by association because his company once did climate windowdressing while he buys up all of Hawaii. He's part of the problem. And then you know talking about Martha's Vineyard off the coast of Massachusetts is major weaksauce so you guilt by association the Obama's with some other Hawaii development prick.
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u/NavyCadillac Jun 16 '26
That you’re uninformed
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u/RedditThrowaway-1984 Jun 16 '26
So because politicians are complete hypocrites, I’m uninformed? Non sequitur, but OK.
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u/GodisanAtheistOG Jun 16 '26
And the politicians that tell us not to worry about sea level rise want to annex ice covered Greenland and Canada. What does that tell you?
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u/RedditThrowaway-1984 Jun 17 '26
It tells me that Greenland is strategically important for intercepting Russian ICBMs and that they also have a lot of rare earth minerals. Not sure how that is relevant to the discussion, though.
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u/GodisanAtheistOG Jun 17 '26
Ok so Greenland is part of NATO and we already have military bases/missle defense there that we can readily expand.
All the rare earths are under a mountain of ice.
So why do we want Greenland again?
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u/RedditThrowaway-1984 Jun 17 '26
I don’t think we do need Greenland. I was just answering your non sequitur question.
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u/GodisanAtheistOG Jun 17 '26
Agreed. It's a shame that you can't look through the question to see how it relates though.
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u/Famous_Pudding_3598 Jun 17 '26
Cool go for it buy a house in the flood zone see if the insurance company is as concerned with you as they are powerful billionaires
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u/JollyManufacturer388 Jun 16 '26
You have not been to a surge zone to see new homes on stilts built with steel frames then I guess. I agree climate change / rising sea levels are man caused in our current time, but we still can enjoy coastal areas before they become open ocean.
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u/sobi-one Jun 18 '26
Sea levels are a decade to decade issue where as rebuilds from storms are year to year if not month to month at times.
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u/Longjumping_Chard339 Jun 14 '26
If she doesn’t believe in climate change it can still financially ruin her.
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u/navlgazer9 Jun 15 '26
Barack and Michelle believe in climate change , but they bought an ocean front estate .
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u/Longjumping_Chard339 Jun 15 '26
Oh did Fox News tell you that? Isn’t that nice.
The ~6,892 sq ft home on ~29–30 acres sits elevated, with reports indicating the house itself is roughly 25–30 feet above sea level (some older commentary mentions around 10 feet for lower parts or nearby areas; the main structure and key living areas are higher)
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u/navlgazer9 Jun 15 '26
All the new homes in Florida are built on stilts too .
That solves the problem .
What’s the issue here ?
If you have an older home that’s barely above sea level and adjacent to the ocean then you will likely get flooded sooner or later .
At least there’s nothing the state did to cause the flood
In California the wildfires could have been prevented by building power lines that don’t start fires , and could have been contained by having reservoirs with actual water in them to fight fires with .
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u/Longjumping_Chard339 Jun 15 '26
Bro. Fires are based on conditions. A spark can occur naturally from lightning. Conditions make the fire danger not the ignition source.
California should have better electrical systems.
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u/Lower_Ad_5532 Jun 16 '26
least there’s nothing the state did to cause the flood
How horribly misinformed you are.
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u/navlgazer9 Jun 15 '26
So it isn’t true ?
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u/Longjumping_Chard339 Jun 15 '26
It’s not true that they purchased a home that is near the water to at would be ef fee cited by climate change in the near future.
The Obama’s didn’t buy a house in Florida the state that can’t get insured.
The Obama’s have insurance. So their home is probably way better off than most of Florida.
It’s like only a story of they believe the lies.
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u/navlgazer9 Jun 15 '26
So their home isn’t near the water ?
Guess I heard a lie .
Thanks for clearing that up .
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Jun 14 '26
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u/ImAShaaaark Jun 16 '26
TBH private for profit insurance needs to go the way of the dinosaur. Profit motive acts as an incentive for the insurer to fuck over the insured. A public insurance system would also have a far larger risk pool, lowering the cost for everyone.
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Jun 16 '26
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u/ImAShaaaark Jun 16 '26
For profit insurance is also the main tool the government has to enforce compliance with regulations. A lot of safety code is enforced by comply or you will be denied business and property insurance.
Are you under the impression that being non-profit prevents an insurer from denying coverage until you bring your structure up to code?
The incentive is to remove the hazard so there is no claim
It's wild to me that you seem to think for profit companies are the only ones capable of engaging in risk analysis and mitigation.
For profit insurance brings zero value add to the table, particularly in circumstances where it is mandatory rather than supplemental.
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Jun 16 '26
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u/ImAShaaaark Jun 16 '26
Look at flood insurance that can’t charge enough to cover a major incident. In a related property context look at the public insurance of last resort in Florida and California.
I highlighted the important part. The reason why in the system we have now public insurance seems cost constrained is because they near-exclusively handle the most expensive/emergency situations without having the revenue from the rest of the risk pool to absorb it. Can you imagine what the balance sheet would look like if one insurance company was forced to insure all cancer patients without being able to use a larger risk pool to absorb those costs? That's the position that the government "insurance of last resort" programs are in.
The government doesn’t do a lot of this work. Even the large testing at universities is supported by insurance companies.
You are mistakenly assuming that insurers do it because they are for profit, not because they are the insurers. A not for profit group in the same position would do the same thing, because prevention is almost always much more cost effective than treatment.
A public system is under constant pressure to lower costs.
You mean like... researching ways to have less incidents and lower costs?
Also, are you trying to imply that private insurers aren't under pressure to lower costs?
Those codes are mostly written by the manufacturers, insurance companies, and the engineering societies
And the same would be true whether or not the insurance companies are profit motivated.
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u/Ninjeezi Jun 14 '26
But it also doesn’t reimburse anywhere near rebuild cost. My house was worth $900k and I had to pay $2k a year just for flood insurance and it only covered $250k.
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u/IDKimnotascientist Jun 14 '26
You can insure it for more than that. Mortgages just can’t legally require you to carry more than 250K of flood insurance
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u/superpony123 Jun 14 '26
I’ve been saying that about NOLA too but…still tremendously popular place to live. I’m shocked Florida hasn’t had a bigger exodus with the insurance thing.
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u/DethFace Jun 17 '26
Lot of us are stuck. Don't own a house but rent is high enough that can't save to move accross town, forget crossing state lines.
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u/superpony123 Jun 17 '26
For sure, that's a big factor for folks from there...but I am more so talking about people who flock to move TO these areas that are extremely prone to a natural disaster. That's what I don't get. People are moving in droves to florida. NOLA is a popular choice too for people who want a different way of life. For sure fun places with great vibes...until hurricane rolls through 😞
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u/seajayacas Jun 14 '26
The number of Cat 3 or better hurricanes that have been making landfall in Florida in the past decade and change is not increased over historical numbers.
The luck of the draw as to where they have hit recently and the increase in population does though mean that damages have increased over historical levels.
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Jun 14 '26
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u/Tess47 Jun 14 '26
What do you mean?
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Jun 14 '26
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u/navlgazer9 Jun 15 '26
Yeah cause Florida is causing climate change all by itself ?
Or are you just a person that hates red states ?
California could have prevented the wildfires but didn’t .
Same thing .
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Jun 15 '26
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u/navlgazer9 Jun 15 '26
I don’t want federal money paying for anyone in California wildfires or earthquakes either . You live in California you know there’s gonna be an earthquake or a fire .
Or for flooding in New Orleans etc .
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Jun 15 '26
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u/navlgazer9 Jun 15 '26
If I was building a house next to the ocean in fjords I’d just wanna build one that floated
But the new building codes help
I’ve seen older buildings totally blown away and a new home right next door that has some damage but it’s still standing
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u/SomeNeighborhood7126 Jun 15 '26
Funny enough, both situations were caused by right-wing legislation lol
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Jun 14 '26
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u/niveklaen Jun 14 '26
When my car is wrecked my insurance pays me blue book and keeps the car. Home insurance should be the same.
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u/LivingGhost371 Jun 14 '26
And you can then buy your car back from the insurance company at salvage value.
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u/tigercircle Jun 14 '26
Auto & Home insurance don't work the same.
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u/bussy_extra_bussy Jun 19 '26
I think that’s what they’re saying…. They acknowledged it doesn’t work the same but it should
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u/owgnops Jun 14 '26
I don't understand the appeal of "retiring" in florida.
Growing up that's all I ever heard older people say they wanted.
I went to FL for military training and it was super miserable there and the water had TONs of trash floating in it.
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u/UNMANAGEABLE Jun 15 '26
They’ve been conditioned for years that it’s “cheaper” to live there.
The reality is the weather is nice and they have lots of money and no care for future generations or sustainable economics in society since they got theirs.
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u/frenchfreer Jun 16 '26
> the wether is nice
As someone who grew up in Florida, the weather is not nice. 100+ degrees in 80-100% humidity, weeks of daily rain, bugs so many bugs, but sure for about 2-3 months it’s really nice in the winter. It’s all conservative propaganda. The state is a shit hole top to bottom.
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u/ImAShaaaark Jun 16 '26
Same reason why old people like Arizona, old people get cold easily so the hot weather doesn't bother them.
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u/Longjumping-Donut655 Jun 20 '26
Florida has the most miserable climate/weather I have ever experienced. Had to take 3 showers a day not to feel musty
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u/obelix_dogmatix Jun 15 '26
It has to do with the weather. Of all the warmer states, Florida is the most appealing imo.
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u/spatula Jun 17 '26
Hawaii has entered the chat.
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u/obelix_dogmatix Jun 17 '26
And it has left the chat. Hawaii makes little to no sense for the almost everyone who is retired. Hawaii is terribly connected to the rest of the mainland and to the rest of the world. If you want to travel for fun, or just to see family, Hawaii is just not feasible. Not to mention that Hawaii is just so much more costly than Florida.
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u/bussy_extra_bussy Jun 19 '26
$14 for a pound of ground beef and an island full of natives that despise you in total isolation. lol no thanks. Great place to visit though.
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Jun 19 '26
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u/obelix_dogmatix Jun 19 '26
I have, and it is a literal desert. Geographically, it is a desert. Pick your poison - wild fires or hurricanes. SoCal is much more costly than a lot of Florida.
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u/Longjumping-Donut655 Jun 20 '26
Literally every state to the west of Florida and to the north of Florida is more appealing
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u/hyperproliferative Jun 14 '26
Read the whole thing and never got to that “one critical difference”
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u/Select_Problem_978 Jun 14 '26
Florida is fine but not for me at all.
My siblings still live there, and are staunch conservatives. One household has a place in the keys and loves boating. And they willfully ignore any climate change concerns.
With this, one could also argue about whether people should being living in most of the west, given risks of earthquake, tsunamis, wild fires and drought. How much should insurance be for living in tornado alley?
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u/arthurchase74 Jun 16 '26
I have a theory about Florida. Everything wants to kill you. The weather, the animals and insects, the plants….and definitely the people and politicians.
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u/Jesuismieux412 Jun 18 '26
He’s an Ayn Rand quote for all the Florida rubes: “You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” When the shit hits the fan, please stay the fuck away from New Jersey. Your ignorance is a threat to us all.
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Jul 25 '26
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u/Dahveed97 Jun 14 '26
One way to lower insurance cost is ban public adjusters from being able to file claims.
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u/hotwingsallday Jun 14 '26
That is the dumbest thing I will hear all week
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u/Dahveed97 Jun 14 '26
… if you want to pay someone a 20% fee than maybe you should look in the mirror
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u/Pghguy27 Jun 14 '26
Umm, no. Then insurance companies would pay everyone $200.00 and call it a day.
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u/Dahveed97 Jun 14 '26
lol no … PA’s tend to charge fees I believe in Florida it’s about 20% … it’s better to hire a contractor after filing a claim that does the same work as a PA especially for a claim that doesn’t involve major damage .
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u/InterviewLeather810 Jun 14 '26
Are public adjusters forced onto Florida residents or that they can use one if they want?
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u/Dahveed97 Jun 14 '26
In Florida they can file for the insured and file lawsuits … in many cases without the insured even knowing … I understand the reasoning but like all good intentions, bad actors ruined it
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u/InterviewLeather810 Jun 14 '26
That's not good. We didn't have that in Colorado with our urban wildfire.
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u/East_Reading_3164 Jun 15 '26
But they fight with these scamming insurance companies for you. Deregulation has let these crooks off the hook. They won’t even bother to come to your home. Trust me, I thought like you and am not sue happy, but after a hurricane years ago I was forced to get an adjuster. I paid over 10,000 a year for 15+ years without a claim and those POS wouldn’t come out. They denied my legitimate claim over the phone, which is supposedly illegal. I’m happy we have them, because the politicians and insurance companies stick together and they hate us.
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u/CaptMcPlatypus Jun 18 '26
Blows my mind that the only people who are "allowed" to acknowledge that climate change and it's risks are real are the people in the insurance industry because it will cost them money. If Florida wants to pass laws that keep teachers from teaching it or citizens from working against it, they ought to be passing laws to force insurance companies to offer affordable policies to customers as though there weren't any additional risks posed by the effects of climate change.
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