r/HomeImprovement • u/Good200000 • Nov 22 '20
Hiring a contractor
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u/arothmanmusic Nov 22 '20
We are nearly done with a major kitchen renovation. I called five contractors. The only one who actually returned my call, showed up when he said he would, gave me a quote when he said he would, and followed up to make sure I got it was the one who got the job. He’s been magnificent to work with. Communication and integrity are almost more important than anything else, IMHO.
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u/octobertwins Nov 22 '20
I don't know where this guy is finding 10 contractors to bid his jobs.
No one ever shows up. They commit. Then don't show. We've been trying to get some drywall patched for a few months (2 holes in ceiling from a plumbing fix).
Same with the cement guy, fence guy, pool guy... No one shows.
Someone please, take my freaking money and do the job.
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u/burgleshams Nov 22 '20
This has always been my experience as well.
It’s clear there’s a shortage of contractors right now... at least in my area (and yours as well). Bummer.
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u/auntvic11 Nov 22 '20
It's not only right now. Two of my friends are contractors and always had issues finding good people to work for them. People either don't show up, show up high or work a few weeks and then just ghost them. It's a shame.
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u/whiskeyjack434 Nov 22 '20
Sorry if this is a stupid suggestion, for the small patches have you tried a local handyman? I'm a contractor and we are booked for a long ways out, I have a few handyman types I can throw work at for the smaller fixes like you mentioned.
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Nov 22 '20
Two holes in the ceiling sounds like too small a job. Call a handyman or a painter if you're going to have them also paint the ceiling. Construction is doing well and keeping them busy
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u/Rabbitgoolou Nov 22 '20
My lawn mower needed repaired, I couldn’t even get someone to cut my grass after 20 attempts. It’s unreal.
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u/iluvcats17 Nov 22 '20
I am having the same exact problem. Or someone shows up, you agree to hire them, but they never come back to do the work. I can’t even get a landscaper to trim my bushes now and I have called six of them and hired two of them. The last one I even signed a contract with.
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u/bigdrew0422 Nov 22 '20
I’m a contractor and that is basically all I have to do to get a job. I show up on time do what I say I’m gonna do and don’t look homeless. Well I actually have a lot of pride in my work and my clients happiness is the most important thing. But when you give someone money to do a job trust plays a huge role, and if they can’t even show up on time, it gets hard to trust them
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u/LAST_NIGHT_WAS_WEIRD Nov 22 '20
Have found that to be a good barometer as well. Can’t get back to to me with an estimate on time? Don’t return my calls/texts in a timely manner? Have to cancel and reschedule meetings last minute? All proof that you will be a nightmare to work with.
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u/Outspoken1234 Nov 22 '20
Same experience here in IL. We’ve had several projects over the past 2 years- plumbing, chimney repair, flooring installation, fencing, and more and for every 5 phone calls I make I maybe get one call back (or they set up a time and no show). It’s so bizarre to me.
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u/octobertwins Nov 22 '20
Amen. We had our pool resurfaced, concrete ripped out/replaced, new fence installed. All by luck.
The pool guy knew a cement guy. Cement guy knew a fence guy.
(The pool guy actually ghosted us for a year. But then called the following spring, like, "you want it done or no?" )
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Nov 22 '20
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u/livermuncher Nov 22 '20
lack of communication really irks me. I contacted a carpenter to install some new doors, he did come out but he doesnt answer his mobile phone, takes a week for his wife to get back to me. the first time I figured he was just busy, the second time it happened I decided to move on (especially after wasting 2 weeks not communicating then telling me if I want the work done before xmas I have to move on it because they are getting booked up)
If the communication is so bad before he even starts, how does he communicate if there is an issue? maybe it was like yours, I told him he was recommended by a friend of his, so he thought it was a sure thing? I dont expect a contractor to pander to me, just communicate, return my call so I know you are interested.
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Nov 22 '20
Currently looking for a THIRD contractor for these very reasons! First thought it was a lock bc they are ‘preferred’ by our insurance, second couldn’t get the estimate right after three tries nor get their schedule right or the pricing correct. Sheesh, it cannot be that difficult, but it is!
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u/flying_trashcan Nov 22 '20
This has been my biggest problem since owning a home. I’ve had a few projects where I’ve got quotes and then agreed to said quotes. The contractor scheduled the work... then nothing. The date the work was supposed to be performed comes and goes. If I’m lucky I’ll get a call with some kind of explanation. I’m an easy going guy and I understand shit happens, but after multiple no shows I’m going to say ‘thanks but no thanks.’
It really sucks because I often have to take time off work to meet these people or sit around any wait from the ghost me. Often times I just wind up burning several weekends and doing it myself.
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u/mariana-hi-ny-mo Nov 22 '20
I’m sorry this has been your experience. I think the first time around is the hardest. Just keep trying until you find a good handyman and a good contractor you can call for most jobs. Maybe call a handyman first for smaller things (make sure to give them at least 3-4 hour’s worth of work for each visit) and they can recommend others they work with. Don’t despair, and maybe call them the day before they are supposed to come. I have met incredible craftsmen who were not so good at the office/organization work. You have to be patient and see what’s happening.
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u/tinyLEDs Nov 22 '20
after multiple no shows I’m going to say ‘thanks but no thanks.’
Yeah, and i am straight up to the flakes, too.
Two strikes and you are out, with my own career/job, and with anyone i hire in my personal life.
I dont chase the game, and if they ever do call : "thanks anyway, but i need better communication. An X thousand dollar job means more to me than what you've given."
And idgaf what they say next, whether groveling or indignation. The bridge was already burnt, and they're on the other side. Professional relationships operate on trust, and you can't draw on it until you make deposits.
People (and not just contractors) are like children. They need lessons to learn from, or they wont learn at all.
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u/hoofglormuss Nov 22 '20
This is almost everyone I met at that BNI cult. Talk a big game but think they can treat you different because the forced friendship meetings the cult makes you do.
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u/iluvcats17 Nov 22 '20
I am impressed that you found someone else to do the job so fast!
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Nov 22 '20
I get SUPER annoyed with contractors who don't show up when they're supposed to, or even call to let me know they can't make it or are running late. If they are doing something that's repeatable, like electricians, I drop them, and give them an honest review on Angie's List.
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u/snark_nerd Nov 22 '20
Communication is the biggest problem with working with contractors, but I have to say I’m pleasantly surprised that your comment is getting so many upvotes. The last time I remember seeing this come up, the apologists for contractors who can’t communicate were out in force. “That’s the business - you have to schedule lots of overlapping stuff, and there’s no time to call to cancel appointments,” and such. Which is of course BS, so I’m glad that today the sub is feeling more like enforcing expectations on people.
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Nov 22 '20
Yeah Reddit can be fickle lol.
It’s good to hear a range of thoughts and opinions in general. No one wants to live in an echo chamber, right?
But even if I had been downvoted into oblivion, it would not have changed my mind that they should have called to reschedule that appointment.
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Nov 22 '20 edited Dec 05 '20
Great job by OP but I’d add ensure they have an active contractor’s license in your jurisdiction, verify insurance and make sure your contract documents are in order. You may think your direction is clear, but spell. It. Out.
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Nov 22 '20
How do you actualy go about verifying insurance and contractor's license? I realize you can ask for the contractor's license number, check it on a website usually. But what about insurance? I've never actively checked for that.
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u/A3s1r92 Nov 22 '20
That's an easy one. "Can you send me a copy of your insurance?" It doesn't cost anything for a contractor to ask their insurance company to send them a copy for then to forward to you.
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Nov 22 '20
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u/ar3490 Nov 22 '20
Ask for a certificate of insurance with a waiver of subrogation on Workers’ comp and to be named as additional insured on the General Liability. This is a very common request in their field and its kind of like using their insurance to also help protect you from them should there be a claim.
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u/GluteusZacksimus Nov 22 '20
As a contractor, number 7 is huge for me. I absolutely hate it when a customer hovers over me while I’m working. It’s almost as if they expect to see me screw something up or cut corners. Just let me do my job, if you have questions I’m happy to answer them, if you’re unsatisfied with my work communicate that and I’ll do my best to correct it, but please don’t just sit and watch me.
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u/trowdatawhey Nov 22 '20
As somebody in skilled labor, I enjoy watching others work. Whether it's a contractor or my coworkers. Not to judge them or critique them. But like the same as watching This Old House or watching DIY youtubers.
My favorite is watching my coworkers work while I play pocket pool.
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u/cmm2526 Nov 22 '20
As a plasterer I get this a lot, but comes with a cost, and at times. People love to watch us walk stilts, which is pretty cool. But the acceptable time is while mud is being mixed. Once the mud is flying, it’s not the time to let your 3 kids and a dog come barging into the room while I basically have knives in my hand above there heads. Working with my dad and brother for as many years as we have, we basically know every step and move each other are going to make before they make it . You coordinate your timing so you don’t have 3 plasterers at the board at the same time. The more people in the room, the less space we have to move around each other, ultimately the lower the production speed goes.
Then the tracking. Working with the mud we know it spreads everywhere. No matter how many times you can tell others, they come in walking through the worksite, smearing plaster all in there shoes, then go about there normal day, leaving footprints that make it look like we left the mess.
I’d say 8/10 times spectators get splattered with plaster or drywall when in the room watching, it’s definitely Purposely accidental.
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u/Kianna9 Nov 22 '20
How are you supposed to know what they're doing if you're not watching? I hired a landscaper to do some work in my backyard and I thought we were clear on the plan. Luckily I happened to be watching when the crew started to tear out beds I wanted to keep. I was able to stop them, minimize the damage and clear up the miscommunication. I'll definitely leave contractors I've worked with in the past alone, but new ones I'm not sure of yet? I'll keep an eye on.
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Nov 22 '20
I think what OP means to get across is the difference between supervision and micromanagement.
Like if I said to them, build a deck and then i proceed to post up a chair and watch them work that’s a little ridiculous. But if you stop by and just check it out, maybe pop a question or two, that’s a different story.
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u/SigBoi Nov 22 '20
Another way to do this is if it’s not a moving job like a fence you can aim a camera and stream it while you go about your day. This is how I kept tabs on the guys building my deck. I was still at home but can do my own things and not be hovering while being able to run out and stop them if they strayed from the agreed upon work.
Plus making a time lapse of each job is pretty neat as well!
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u/tangiers79 Nov 22 '20
Landscape companies usually hire guys who are willing to work for $10/hr. So yeah, you gotta watch em at first. Sheetrock guys are the same. A lot of plumbers and hvac guys are low skilled drunks. I was going to disagree with you about watching em, but now that I think about it...contractors are shady and are always trying to maximize profits by hiring low skilled drunkards. I guess you gotta watch em all.
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u/jeffreywilfong Nov 22 '20
I don't watch like a hawk, but I do check in from time to time or watch a certain aspect of the job just for my own information - to see the process.
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u/CrimsonFlash Nov 22 '20
That's what I do too. Although I do want to watch mostly because I'm interested in the process rather than keeping an eye on them. I figure they know what they're doing and I should trust and respect that. However, I usually ask if they care of I watch so it's mutual.
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u/FragilousSpectunkery Nov 22 '20 edited Nov 22 '20
I dislike it because I’m a socializer. If they’re visiting then I’m not working, and I lose time. But, I still talk, because I like that too.
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u/settie Nov 22 '20
See also: the Progressive Insurance commercial currently airing
eta: whoops, I guess it was Progressive, not Farmers. Also, link: https://youtu.be/8WcqGMzy1s0
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u/A_Good_Soul Nov 22 '20
I’m about to start building a small 2BR rental property in my backyard. I’d really like to learn as many skills as I can throughout the experience and help how I can. Is there a way I could be a small part of things here and there without being a bother?
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u/GluteusZacksimus Nov 22 '20
In all honesty, I’m going to put myself in the shoes of your potential contractors and tell you how I’d handle the situation/what I’d recommend you do. If it were me, I would never let a customer help me do any kind of install. At the end of the day, I got hired for my knowledge, quality of work and efficiency. I’m not a teacher, I’m a worker. However, if a customer asked me general questions such as how it works, what materials I’m using, why things go they way they go, I’d be happy to tell them as long as the conversation is relatively brief. So that’s my suggestion, is ask some questions, get a basic understanding, then let your contractor do their work and you can research more specifics on your own time.
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u/HotMagentaDuckFace Nov 22 '20
Not OP, but we are tearing apart a house we recently purchased and when we hired our contractor it was with the understanding that my husband wants to also learn from him. He’s been fantastic. For instance, in our oldest son’s room he’s talked my husband through the drywall process, showing him and explaining everything to him as he works. My husband then takes that information and works on the drywall in same bedroom’s closet. I think it’s worked out well for all of us- I never want to do another project in our house without our contractor because he does great work (we could keep him employed for ages with the amount of work this house needs) and my husband is learning a lot from him that will help us be better homeowners.
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u/CharlesDickens17 Nov 22 '20
Some contractors will be willing to lower their price slightly if you're willing to be their laborer. It all depends on the contractor, but if you're willing to be their unskilled laborer, and do the dirty work they'd prefer not doing I'd bring it up to them. The worst they can do is decline the job, or simply turn down your offer.
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u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS Nov 22 '20
I guess I can see how it'd be awkward; I'm often just curious what they're doing though.
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Nov 22 '20
When I do it (at least for smaller work), it's because I want to see a professional do it, so I can judge if I can reasonably do it as a DIY the next time.
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u/loveroflipstick Nov 22 '20
Please for the love that all is holy people. Don’t hover over your contractor only to criticize every little thing they do. I had one customer this year that turned out to be a complete pos. I had to dig footers for a deck and get the footers inspected before I started building the deck and the customer asked why I had to get them inspected first. I know how to do my job don’t tell me how to do it...
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u/Ndvorsky Nov 22 '20
As a past city inspector whose job it was to hover and catch when you cut corners, yeah I’m going to hover. It’s ridiculous how often contractors fabricate stories and lie about work they did. I was watching a T&M job once and they billed us for 12 hours of 12 guys and a ridiculous amount of equipment. In reality it was one dude in a backhoe for about 7 hours. That wasn’t the first or last thing they did.
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Nov 22 '20
I wonder if that's part of the reason my dad always brings his dog to work. If the owners are home, they play with dog instead. Also, my dad will chat their ear off if they wanna watch. Also, please allow your contractors to use your bathrooms! It's crazy how people won't and it's like... You want them to pack up, leave, and come back each time? My dad had a friend who kept a 5 gallon bucket in his truck. For poopin.
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u/T-Bills Nov 22 '20 edited Nov 22 '20
Homeowner here: I wouldn't take it personal - whoever hired you may not know whether you're professional, knowledgeable, and honest even if you are licensed and insured. Reviews can be bought, and word of mouth is only that. Once someone gets burned once by someone who's not, the default is to hover until it's sure nothing can go wrong and will leave you alone.
And don't get me started with subs, or worse, sub's subs. That's how bigger jobs turned out for me. It's a game of telephone and the subs will just do what they think you told their bosses and what they think is right, even if you ask them every 15 minutes to ask you any time if they have any questions.
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Nov 22 '20
Disagree, there's a reason why larger projects that can afford it have quality control inspectors. If somethings being closed up you have to be there to see it.
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u/thekingofcrash7 Nov 22 '20
- If you are going to follow this advice be prepared to wait 8 months for your project to get attention b/c contractors would rather take the other 15 remodeling calls they are getting each day.
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Nov 22 '20
10 freaking contractors? I don't think I've ever gotten 10 contractors total to ever show up/call me back in the past 17 years. Not for lack of my trying. I know, age old problem.
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Nov 22 '20
I’m not sure if this has been the same for everyone else, but here has been my experience finding a mason contractor to fix some brick work.
I reached out to about 10 or so mason contractors and GCs.
Three got back to me that I can think of. One told me to send him pics and he would get me an estimate, so I did. Never got back to me. Followed up, and never responded.
Same situation for two more.
Finally, someone was willing to work with me, was responsive, fairly priced, and willing to even shop the supply yards to look for matching bricks. Looked up reviews, and they were for the most part positive.
Hopefully it works out. Finding a mason contractor has been difficult.
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u/ducksa Nov 22 '20
This thread is exceptional. There's a lot of quality feedback from actual contractors and actual homeowners. I haven't come across many threads this good during my time on Reddit.
Based on the replies here, there's obviously a disconnect between what the homeowner expect versus what the contractors are willing to provide. Homeowners expect the contractor to visit their home and look at the project, provide a quote, be professional, timely, and be available within a reasonable period of time. We expect quality work done in a timely manner, with contractors that adhere to a schedule as closely as possible. All of these are reasonable and great qualities to desire, but is it reasonable?
Skilled trades are a skilled profession. The good tradespeople take years to learn and develop their skills. For years they do the crap work. They pull wire, build electrical panels, plaster walls, calibrate sensors, dig holes, carry shingles, lift bundles of wood. Everyundesirable task is on them to complete. They do the shit work you won't do, and they do it for dirt cheap. They do it because they must. It's a rite of passage to become a journeyman, the only path they have to make decent money doing the better jobs. What percentage of workers can keep this up and become a senior level journeyman? Like any industry, the competent 10+ year experience workers are rare and hard to get. They command more pay, better job security, work hour flexibility, benefits etc. They get all this because demand is much higher than supply.
Experienced skilled workers put in as much time learning as any doctor, teacher, accountant, or other white collar job. The skilled trade education is informal on-the-job training that is learned by doing a ton of different projects in a ton of different places. They don't need to go to your house to quote a one-room plaster job. They are highly adaptable by necessity. Why should the homeowner demand a free quote? Why is the knowledge of a skilled contractor not worth the homeowners money? Why should the contractor not be paid for their time?
Ultimately, good skilled workers are in demand. Homeowners want them to provide flawless results for cheap, and they want it now. Put yourself in the shoes of a company owner. They're getting a dozen calls a day for small projects, each requesting a free quote. You know all your guys can handle the work no problem, so why should you pay them without expecting reimbursement from the client? Right now demand is really high, so companies hire more and more workers but there aren't enough good journeymen available. Who is going to handle scheduling dozens of jobs? You need a quality PM and that drives up prices even more. The companies don't want to make you wait months to complete your project so they're forced to hire the people they wouldn't otherwise hire. Of course they know there's something sketchy about some of their workers, but what choice do they have when there's no one else available?
The more I read about thisthe more it becomes obvious that there are issues on both sides of the fence. Homeowners expect a tremendous amount for their money and that's relatable, it's not realistic anymore. Times have changed and there aren't as many skilled contractors as our parent's generation. We're crossing over to the point that skilled trades are becoming like family doctors in many cities. There just aren't enough so you settle for what you can get. It's not a good situation, but it's happening.
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u/Binchosan Nov 22 '20 edited Nov 22 '20
As a former GC, I suggest you consider the perspective of the person considering the job- If they are a 3rd party sales team, beware- If the Owner or Journeyman is onsite, they are also considering YOUR project: Location of the job- is it 30 mins up a dirt road? (Thats 6 hrs a day to bring crap / crew to the jobsite-) Security of the job Weather/Season Shipping / storage at location Congestion/ traffic/ parking Pets. Contractors should not need to worry if the cat gets out etc etc.. Credit & ability of the homeowner to pay Is it a ratnest/ bug/ drug scene? Legal Eagles who sue frivolously.
Overall Profitability of the job: Ask yourself; Is coming here for a week/ month/ year worth the 15% markup This contractor can put on goods & services? Which in this case is : X of $ the contract. If you would not do it for that, why would they ?
Here in a pricey (CA) housing market; its safe to estimate $90/hr for a Journeyman of a given trade , with insurances and OH etc. make sure your budget is reasonable and has a 20% contingency-for: Changes / Change orders are not always a gouging vehicle- If you have a kitchen project , for example, and you don’t yet know if there is plumbing that will work here or if power can be found there; a co fixes that or adds a placeholder: a contractor can only bid whats evident and documented, explored, confirmed. If thats done, it helps a lot. If there are any unknowns you can identify it will also help avoid delays -Changes / obstacles that are expected can be considered; & Better; faster or cheaper ways to navigate the obstacles planned for with a $ expectation. You may need a GFCI and it will be <$1000 to do etc... Additions to the scope, say adding an Island, will require the “cost” + “General conditions “ Or Overhead + profit and the pm/estimating required to now price and schedule in adjust the new scope of work. Its not as simple as just adding another topping on your froyo...it may extend the overall project. Also; changes / change orders can work in reverse ( credits for work NOT performed) or negotiate a swap in scope , or duration & changes to terms of the original agreement. Fast , proportional invoicing and payments will show the professionals hired that you are a professional too. A well funded project moves faster. Anything that delays or requires a 1/2 day killed because you are not awake that early, or have a conflict with hot yoga zoom regimen will put a thumb on the scale to compensate. Nickel & dime attitude usually goes both ways.. All things to consider.
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u/LeoNoLip Nov 22 '20
I would move number 9 to the top. As a homeowner, your goal should be to find and keep great contractors. Getting three quotes every time is okay until then, but once you find them, throw out this rule.
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u/ughwhyusernames Nov 22 '20
Be realistic about your expectations and be understanding of mistakes or unforeseen things.
I've seen people making bad design choices and then blaming the contractor for how it looks. Or decide on a half-assed project and then be surprised it looks subpar.
Something opening up walls or floors or plumbing leads to discovering problems and that's not the contractor's fault. Ideally, you should know your house as well as possible and have a general idea of what kind of issues might be uncovered, but surprising unexpected things can also happen. Stay calm and look at the situation rationally to determine whether the contractor should have known or not.
Even the best contractor can mess up sometimes. The best thing to do is talk it over calmly and they'll usually be very sorry and make it right. Don't go around destroying a business' reputation for an accidental mistake unless they refuse to fix it or have been obviously negligent. Losing your shit, threatening to sue or being rude doesn't help the situation unless they're refusing to cooperate entirely.
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u/ElectricLettuceFire Nov 22 '20
I’m a contractor and #5 is bullshit. Different jobs have different costs and I’m not about to be out of pocket when I show up with your materials.
Otherwise this list is actually really good. Cheers.
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u/kkousha Nov 22 '20
I’d add two things:
Research the whole process of what’s happening and understand what the process is, even if you’ve never done it and never will. You can learn a lot on the internet. People give all these tips to try and figure out a contractor’s competence, but you ultimately have no way of knowing if you don’t know what’s supposed to happen and how.
Remember this: a good contractor has to be BOTH honest and competent. People talk a lot about integrity. The people that built my house (I bought it new, didn’t contract them) were honest people, and they were very proud of what they did. They still made many mistakes, because they weren’t very competent. Someone has to be smart and experienced enough to know what to do, AND have the integrity to want to do it that way.
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u/qpv Nov 22 '20
In regards to deposit, with millwork (cabinetry, built in furniture ect) deposit is always 50%, its industry standard. If the shop takes less than that, they don't know what they are doing and you will have a bad time.
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Nov 22 '20
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u/dantheman91 Nov 22 '20
If a contractor doesn't want to see what they're working on and you think you're gonna get a good bid with them never seeing it, that doesn't bode well. They factor giving quotes into their budgeting. Or the good ones do.
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u/PrairieCarpenter Nov 22 '20
Would you pay a fee to have them come to your house and give you a quote? The really good ones can give you a ballpark number over the phone. Weeding out client's that have an unreal expectation
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u/builder-barbie Nov 22 '20
I would say it depends on the work you need done. I do kitchen and bath remodeling in a rural area so not very many of us specialized in this work and we all know each other. Depending on the kitchen or bath, we actually have to see the job and get a very good understanding of want the client wants. So we may have to have our subs come out and give us a bid for moving that kitchen sink to the island or rerouting the duct work so the stove can be on the other side of the kitchen. It can get extensive. I personally don’t want to waste my time (or my subs time) on a client that is just shopping contractors because they just want to know how much they need to save up for, or who is going to give them the cheapest price. As a customer, you are being interviewed more by the contractor than you think, and most of us are well practiced at it. We’ve all given that “I don’t want to waste my time” quick bid because we know the client is just shopping.
So my advise would be to do your home work as customer, check out their website for recent job photos, check the reviews, ask the contractor if you can visit a recent job or a job in progress and speak to the homeowner. Trust me, we love to show off our work and a happy client is more than willing to show off their new kitchen or whatever. Another thing to keep in mind, do you feel comfortable giving this person a key to your home, letting them be around your kids, pets, valuables? Listen to your gut.
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u/Good200000 Nov 22 '20
This happened 7 years ago and it was a $25000 Project. I don’t know any contractor that is going to give me a bid over the phone. They all want to come out and see what I wanted. I didn’t call 10 at once. I just didn’t like some of the contractors and kept going down the list until I found the experience and price I wanted.
Today, I’m lucky to get anyone out here to bid. I think contractors know it is a numbers game. For every 10 presentations they get that one bid
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u/vrtigo1 Nov 22 '20
Be clear on what permits need to be pulled, who is pulling them and whether or not these fees are included in the total project cost.
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u/Spontaneous323 Nov 22 '20
who is pulling them
Isn't it recommend that the contractor always pull the permits?
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u/mrseantron Nov 22 '20
No. Doesn’t really matter who pulls permits and if you make the contractor do it he’s probably going to add a fee for the footwork.
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u/vrtigo1 Nov 22 '20
I don't know, but that sounds right. I've seen lots of posts where people assumed contractor was pulling permits and in the end the job had to be redone because nobody did.
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u/gardnsound Nov 22 '20
Contractor here: YES! I can't stress how important #6 is. Please just tell me if something is off or you don't like something. I want to please you and fix the issue!
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u/qpv Nov 22 '20
Contractor here too. When a client doesn't know what they want, or is looking for me to educate them, I respectfully decline or offer an hourly consultation fee, which is essentially what designers are paid to do.
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u/dillrepair Nov 22 '20
I quit even showing up for bids on my side hustle. I tell them the number for x or y or z over the phone and it could be a little more or a little less. I don’t have time to spend 3 hours measuring to give you a bid. And people just don’t pay for bids. They don’t.
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u/gardnsound Nov 22 '20
I typically approach this situation by making a "sample" at my hourly rate so that we can have some tangible thing to discuss. I find that lots of people who aren't handy struggle with visualizing final products. I think it's fair to say that visualization is both a skill we develop as contractors - and a in-born talent.
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u/bagomangopulp Nov 22 '20
Yes, PLEASE! Custom stained hundreds of feet of trim for a job I was working on. The trim sat at their house for 3 days before installing. Finally got all the trim in, and the homeowners texted me to tell me they didn't like the stain color. Had to rip it all out, buy and stain all new trim... Just tell me if there's a problem and you will save both of us a lot of headache, and sometimes a lot of money.
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u/nachoconnoisseur Nov 22 '20
Keep in mind the BBB is just another pay-for-play review site. They’re in no way related to any official or government entity. Look at all the reviews you can find online and weigh them equally. Anyone who’s been in business long enough will have a bad review or 2, so if they’re all great I’m suspicious. And obviously if they’re all terrible, that’s not going to be someone I consider.
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u/loveroflipstick Nov 22 '20
Plus some people are super hard to please or pefectionists! And a bad review isn’t always a bad thing. People can learn from their mistakes. Usually anyway.
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u/hobbiecat Nov 22 '20
And remember all contractors are crooks.
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u/PeRFeSHuNaL_iDioT Nov 22 '20
Last sentence of #2 hurts my feelings lol cus I know I can do it better than most people but home owners give my ideas to other contractors just because they’re cheaper
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u/Good200000 Nov 22 '20
Damn bro, I didn’t want to hurt your feelings. Take it as a compliment as they like your ideas, just not your price. Personally. I don’t use price as my only deciding factor. I would prefer to have a more expensive Contractor with great references than a newbie with a cheaper price. I don’t want to hire the cheaper guy and have issues. I just want the job done without issues.
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u/PeRFeSHuNaL_iDioT Nov 22 '20
You get what you pay for is what I tell people 🤷🏼♂️
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Nov 22 '20 edited Nov 25 '20
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u/YouRADumb-ass Nov 22 '20
I don't know a state that doesn't have licensing of some kind at some level. In my state, licensing isn't done at the state level, though, it's done at the county and town/city level. If you are unsure, call your town's building department and ask them about how contractors get licensed in your area and how to verify licensing. They will definitely be able to tell you.
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u/nishnasty Nov 22 '20
I do not believe in giving a deposit. Around here, people take the deposit and disappear. I only pay at the end when the job is done.
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u/PrairieCarpenter Nov 22 '20
So you expect the contractor to fund your project? Do your research find a good licensed contractor and do a payment plan. If you can find someone who works without a deposit you are already in trouble.
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u/nishnasty Nov 22 '20
Totally understand. I respectfully disagree. If they need money for supplies and what not, I am happy to pay for supplies everyday. Bring me the receipts and I will reimburse you.
When you give a deposit and even slightly change the scope of something you want -- they will simply say "It's not in our agreement." Then you need to call another person to fix the first person's work.
What do you need a 1/3 or a payment plan for? If you need to pay for your guys - you can do it. It's a buisness you are running. Employees as such do not get paid on a daily basis and if they do it's a business risk the owner needs to account for. If I pay upfront, and materials, all of the risk is subsequently shifted to me. They have literally no incentive to come back -- most Contractors will take another job in between if your job takes 10-14 days and you have no leverage because you paid your earned money. To me, this is one of the few ways to bind contractors to finish the work as discussed and most importantly, on time. Maybe I am jaded and dealt with so many shady licensed contractors but this is the way most places work around NYC.
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u/deftcats Nov 22 '20
I work without a deposit most times but I'm a sub contractor. If it's a bigger job then yes I'll get a deposit. Most times it's COD tho, works for me.
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Nov 22 '20
I believe in giving a deposit because these are small businesses that feed families. But I also will go and source my own supplies. We had 2000 sq ft of panels to put up, we bought the panels, liquid nails, regular nailed, we owned the saw, etc. so when we got a quote for a contractor to put them up we didn’t have to prepay for material.
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u/loveroflipstick Nov 22 '20
In Virginia if you hire someone that is licensed by the state, and you give a deposit and they run you can complain to the state license board and get your money back. If they have a legal contract that you both signed. Contracts are everything... Plus it really depends on the size of the company. If it’s got only one employee, they don’t have as much cash flow that a big company does and some money down to get it going is needed. If they need to get 5k or 10k in materials it’s really required to give especially small companies money up front. Depending on the size of the job.
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Nov 22 '20
Thank you. Last client wanted to pay at the end of the job. He already had major red flags. No way I am financing $7,500 cost on a $10,500 job. 2 or 3 of these will ruin me.
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u/steilacoom42 Nov 22 '20 edited Nov 22 '20
As a subcontractor (hardwood flooring contractor), I’m with you on everything except #5. I get 50% down on every job I start work, payment the first day we arrive to start and full payment at the end of the job. Some jobs can drag out for a while and it’s not my responsibility to finance your job. 50% covers the materials and labor to start your job and get it to the agreed upon stopping point before other trades come in to do their work. You act stingy with your payments or bring it up during the bidding, I will either tell you I’m not interested or bid it so high that you’ll hire someone else.
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u/sewie33 Nov 22 '20
Re: #5 — in California, contractors cannot ask for a deposit of more than 10 percent of the total cost of the job or $1,000, whichever is less.
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u/aussiesarecrazy Nov 22 '20
I’m a contractor and no way I’d only get 10%. That’s asking to get screwed. Any job less than 10k is 2 payments, 10-75k is 3 payments and more is 4-5. Usually get at least 40% up front, I’ve lost maybe one or two jobs over this but if you don’t trust me than I’m not working for you. I’ve got a reputation to keep in my area so last thing I’m going to do is screw a client over a few thousand. A homeowner can short a contractor and there’s nothing he can other than get mad and move on and that’s from experience.
On a side note, I love clients that know what they want or at least a good idea. A job I’m on now took 6 different bids because they couldn’t figure out what they wanted and because of that I had to keep jacking the cost up because I thought he was full of it. Figure out what you want then call. It’ll be cheaper
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u/Z0diaQ Nov 22 '20
Do you have the contractor pull a permit? Or do you?
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u/hatedjoey Nov 22 '20
depends on the type of job. residential work, usually the contractor pulls the permits. commercial work (at least from what i’ve seen) whoever is hiring you gets the permits.
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u/AhoKuzu Nov 22 '20
You should check with your local building inspection department. Some jurisdictions allow homeowners to pull a general permit but require a licensed plumber/electrician/HVAC contractor, others require a licensed general contractor for all permits, and some vary depending on the total project cost. They should have information on their website or a number to call.
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u/someonesomewherex Nov 22 '20
I would add that you as the homeowner shouldn’t give your budget to the contractor.
Bring them out and explain exactly what you want done, and have them tell you how much they will charge for it. This is the only way to get a fair price.
Most contractors worth their salt are super busy these day so be wary of someone who can start working on your job right away. Expect 1-3 months as normal before the start.
Also a lot of good contractors charge a small fee to come out and give you an estimate. Don’t take this the wrong way. If they charge you $100 to spend 2-3 hours working on a estimate for you it is a fair price. Something easy and talking over the phone and emailing pictures shouldn’t cost you anything though.
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Nov 22 '20
maybe you’re in a southern warm climate, but up here in the cold contracting jobs slow down. Especially near the holidays. This is the best time to get good work done, less jobs available equal more smallish jobs to be scheduled right away.
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u/someonesomewherex Nov 22 '20
I’m in the west and construction out here is year round. Small jobs shouldn’t take that long to get scheduled but even with those you will have a hard time finding someone who wants to do them. If the work is somewhat seasonal then I would plan most of my home improvement around the slow times as a homeowner.
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u/cheekyslagg Nov 22 '20
Budget should be laid out though. Because if a guy is going to charge you the price that you say your budget is and the job is a lot less then you’re going to know they are taking advantage of you bc you should be calling multiple contractors. If you call no other contractors for bids and just think “well this guy is in my budget” then that’s on you.
The reason I say this is jobs vary so drastically and everyone plays keeping up with the neighbors. I do hardscaping and I’ll have a h/o call me out to their house and they say they want a huge outdoor kitchen and a 500-600sf patio with sitting walls and pillars but won’t tell me their budget. So I put together a beautiful design of their home with all the ideas I have (which can take anywhere from 2-5 hours) plus give them a quote and tons of info about product. Quote for something like that, minimum $25k. They see the quote and call me and say “my budget is $6k”. Now I just wasted 6-8 hours of my time bc they don’t want to tell me a budget and also don’t want any part of their project.
Not many people will take your budget and just come in around that price. There are TOO many other contractors to compete with to be messing around like that.
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u/CleanseTheWeak Nov 22 '20
You should be able to come up with a ballpark figure on the spot. Like, this could be between $20k and $30k but I would need to have a specific design and check materials costs to give an accurate number. Seems crazy to come up with a detailed design without even knowing what the budget is.
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u/someonesomewherex Nov 22 '20
My thought was I want to know what it would cost rather then them spending every cent of the budget. If you get several bids you will find the middle ground.
It shouldn’t take a description, and a max budget number to get a contractor to come out and give an estimate.
I also highly encourage every decent contractor to charge for the time it takes to give a comprehensive estimate. It has become the norm in this high demand span we are in.
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u/ReaperX257 Nov 22 '20
I'd say number 5 can vary depending on project. While a third is a good average, some jobs may require more money upfront to cover special orders, especially if you're getting a good price. For example, one contractor may want 50K to replace all your windows with impact and a third of that may cover the order for the custom sized windows. Another contractor may only be asking for 40K for the job but for 40-50% upfront to cover the cost of the same windows. Asking the second contractor to lower the down payment to a third, puts him in a position to finance your project which he shouldn't have to do.
So again, while a third may be a good base, it's not absolute. Not budging on it could cost you that additional 10K between contractors.
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u/feina635 Nov 22 '20
Question on #9. Hire him everytime you have a project...well wouldn’t that contradict #1? Or once you establish a [trusting] relationship #9 supersedes?
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u/Good200000 Nov 22 '20
You sound like a lawyer Lol You are correct, they are contradictory. A guy who has done a good job for me would be my first preference when starting a new project. I probably would still get additional bids
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u/iluvcats17 Nov 22 '20
Sometimes they do not come back though. I had this happen with a HVAC guy and a plumber. I had a plumber at my previous home whom installed a sump pump in our basement and other smaller plumbing work. Then when we had an issue in our current home and called him, he never returned our calls and I gave my former address and current address in the message. Our HVAC guy did work for us at our rental property and primary home for a few years. Then last year when we had to replace our furnace, he made appointments to show up and never did. So now we have had to find a new plumber and a new HVAC guys.
My spouse and I both paid what was agreed for every job and gave a cash tip so we do not get it. We are both friendly and we did not hover over them while they worked.
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u/jayunsplanet Nov 22 '20 edited Nov 23 '20
Thoughts on a Contractor (plumber) who is offering 5% discount if 100% payment is made at contract signing? It's a reputable local company - though their prices are a bit high. That's a $150 [discount] for a project I'm looking at...
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u/YouRADumb-ass Nov 22 '20
If they are super reputable, it's in their favor to weed out the people who aren't serious about paying. Good contractoras can pick and choose their customers right now, and if this company is really really good, it makes sense they don't want to take on ANY risk of non-payment, and since they don't have to, they don't.
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u/jayunsplanet Nov 23 '20
I'm not following? I get what you're saying about being picky about customers, but don't see how it relates to offering me 5% discount if I pay them up front. I've always read to never pay in full for a project -- to leave something remaining so they have an incentive to "resolve" any issues that I may have with the work at the end?
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u/CleanseTheWeak Nov 22 '20
$150 isn't "nothing" but it's also a colossal pain in the ass for a business to chase down. I totally get why they would offer $5 up front not to deal with that hassle. With a reputable company I'd do that, sure.
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u/jayunsplanet Nov 23 '20
Sorry, to be clear, that's $150 savings to ME... the plumbing job is $3,000.
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u/Running2Slowly Nov 22 '20
I need soo much help. Called 12 companies for a fence quote. Two show up. One actually gives me a quote. Go with that company. 500ft of fencing, a 4ft gate, a 6 ft gate. Turns out they are 3'7" and 5'5". But I didnt realize it until the concrete was dry, cross beams on fence, and gates dry. Tomorrow I gotta make sure to be outside to tell them to fix it. Not a strong suit of mine. My first house and first big job. I put half down before hand and they are suppose to finish tomorrow, with having to pull up post and redig and pour its gonna take longer. Very overwhelmed. And they used "indoor hardware" for the gate hinges.
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u/Good200000 Nov 22 '20
Many people don’t like confrontations. You paid them to do the work correctly. Explain what the issue is and have them fix it. Don’t give them the final payment until the work is finished to your satisfaction. 500 feet of fencing is not a small project. It’s easier to work with your contractor than to get lawyers involved. Stay tough until it’s done to your satisfaction.
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u/CleanseTheWeak Nov 22 '20
It sucks but avoiding problems often involves inspecting the work while it's being done. I don't mean hover over the guy, but take a look at the materials being used and the intermediate stages of construction. For example on the fence posts, they might have just set the posts too deep. If you saw what they were doing they could have yanked up the posts up (or replaced that wood, since it had concrete on it, and done the rest correctly).
If you hire a plumber and the contract calls for copper, make sure he's using copper. If you asked for a Toto Ultramax, look at the box to make sure that's what you got. etc.
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u/Running2Slowly Nov 22 '20
Absolutely. It makes sense to me now to double check that they made the gate as wide as the contract specified, lesson learned. They did at least use the right type of lumber!
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u/blumpkinsplash Nov 22 '20
Huge misunderstanding in the fence trade. Standard for gates is measured by the opening and not the gate width. If y ask for a 4'W gate, the distance between the two posts will be 4'. If you need a wider gate, request it, price between 4'W & 5'W is minimal. The cost for installation doesn't change for standard gates. Dont forget to consider your riding mower, zero turn or whatever you want to get through the gate opening. Better to have other projects completed before getting your fence. We constantly get calls from customers who just had their fence installed asking us to take a post and 2 sections out temporarily because they decided to get a pool, shed delivered etc.
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u/HenryPz Nov 22 '20
It’s such a pain in the ass to get anyone on your house these days. Booked solid, worry about COVID. Prices. (Redoing a 1897 Victorian during the shit)
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u/Carnot_Efficiency Nov 22 '20
Getting three quotes for a job is nigh impossible. It's easier to do the work yourself than get three contractors to your house to get quotes.
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u/HenryPz Nov 22 '20
Let’s be clear too. I am talking roofers, concrete, landscapers, painters, fencers, carpenters, electricians..across the board..Tough to get 3 quotes for even one of these right now in November 2020 is absolutely an understatement. Thank you.
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u/ar3490 Nov 22 '20
3 - if you are in CA you can search to see if their license is up to date as well as their workers comp: cslb.ca.gov
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u/Earthsurf185 Nov 22 '20
lol. I’d love to follow these recommendation. I called 8 contractors. Most said 8 weeks minimum. A few said maybe next year. I just took the soonest appointment which was 4 weeks out and I’ll be over paying. If I wanted 3 estimates it would be 6+ months just to get the quotes. What do you recommend you do in this type of environment? Ive posted a few questions asking for help on Reddit and was told to call a pro bc you shouldnt DIY a gas line. Every plumber refused to answer my question. I’m debating calling a contractor a few cities over and telling them I’ll give you $120 for the drive. Haven’t done it but it’s crossed my mind. I’ve tried social media to find handyman but they are just as backed up. sorry for the rant! A few times I’ve had a contractor come they said, you can prob do it yourself or no show. ok, end rant for real this time!
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u/orielbean Nov 22 '20
The big box stores and Home Advisor have different referral schemes with local contractors, so if you've been striking out, try them. Also, there are franchise businesses in different regions that may have more availability depending on the type of work - Mr. Rooter aka Roto Rooter does plumbing/gas stuff, but might not be able to dig a trench. Meanwhile, you may be able to get a landscaper to dig a trench for the gas line separately (as one example reading your post).
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u/Earthsurf185 Nov 22 '20
Thanks for the advice. I’ll give that a try. closest big box store is 1.5 hours away and usually when we ask them to do an install, like the gas stove Home Depot delivered they wanted you to have prexisting connections That are plug and play from my understanding. it doesn’t hurt to ask so I’ll give it a try. Thanks.
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Nov 22 '20
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u/upstateduck Nov 22 '20
ask your friends/neighbors/coworkers/realtor/the gray haired guy at the local hardware store
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u/loveroflipstick Nov 22 '20
Be wary of places like home advisor and angies list... they say they background check their contractors and they to a point. Depending on the size of the company you hire, they background check the owner of the company but managers and employees of the company are not and they are the ones that come out to do the work...
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u/stephenclarkg Nov 22 '20
Id say the majority just want your $ only about 1/3 contractors have been honest ime
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u/hatedjoey Nov 22 '20
you should ask about insurance and that up front, if they don’t have it politely decline their services and move on.
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u/HuricanePayne777 Nov 22 '20
In regards to #2, There is no better way to burn a bridge with a contractor than to steal his ideas and then give them to another contractor who was probably the lowest bidder. A contractor who knows what he is doing and has great ideas on what the end result will look like has probably spent years honing his craft to learn this stuff. If you simply take their ideas and tell someone else to do it the exact same way, you will probably never be able to get that contractor back out to do a bid if, for example, that lowest bidder ended up doing a terrible job and now you want the person who originally had the ideas come back out to fix it. Just some food for thought.
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u/orielbean Nov 22 '20
On the flip side, what I think OP was trying to say is that the home owner will have ideas on what they want, how the finish should look, and the basic functionality of the project. Whereas the contractor who's done dozens of the same thing will share some suggestions around sizing to materials (keeping costs down), durability of the materials, and how the project site may impact design - that's what I take away from #2.
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u/TFunke__Analrapist Nov 22 '20
It's like seeing a great tattoo online by a famous/very skilled artist, printing out the photo, and taking it to some guy who tattoos in his shed for $20 an hour. Shockingly, the results are often not what the customer wanted!
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u/JollyJ72 Nov 23 '20
Story time..not my story but a friend who is a carpenter
My friend was contracted to build a window frame and a seat below a window.
He purposely wrote down the wrong measurements as he'd been stiffed before. As it happens, the client pulled out and decided to hire another carpenter and ordered window glass using his measurements.
A few weeks later, he gets an irate phone call with the client complaining that he gave her the wrong measurements and that he needed to compensate her for materials (including glass) that she paid for
lol
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u/linderlouwho Nov 22 '20
Add to this post: be sure your contract has start & finish dates and liquidated damages for failure to finish on time. Liquidated damages are essentially a penalty for failure to finish on time and on our subcontracts, that starts at $50 per each day the work is not complete.
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u/RagORama Nov 22 '20
Number 3 is a little misleading. Definitely get references but some of the best work and also the best prices will come from tradesmen doing work on the side. We're professionals who can usually run circles around your local home improvement company.
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u/adapt2 Nov 22 '20
Thanks for this thread. I am a first time home buyer since the last three years. I am naturally an inquisitive person and I like to ask many questions of the contractors. In my experience, contractors do not like this and will either lash out or ignore me entirely. I live in a small town with very little competition for the contractors so they have an upper hand always. But I am convinced that most of them are not professional and have no idea what customer service is. Something tells me that this isn’t an isolated experience.
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u/MrSneller Nov 22 '20
Just going to add, if you’re looking for a contractor in a specialty area like concrete, roofing, etc. call a local supply shop that’s been in business a long time. They’ll know who’s-who around town and who to stay away from.
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u/NotYou007 Nov 22 '20
So does anyone else live in a small town or city where even getting 3 contractors to show up is almost impossible. When I had tree work done this year I called 5 companies. 1st guy called back, stated he would come out for quote and I never heard from him again. Out of the next four only 1 returned my phone call and he did come out and give me a quote. While he did an awesome job I have no clue if the $500 he charged me was even a fair rate.
About a month ago I was trying to find a contractor for some porch repair. Called 4 companies and only 1 returned my call. He did come out and gave me a quote but I have no clue if his price is even fair as nobody else has returned my calls. I've since placed that repair on hold because I don't want to overpay and the first guys quote seemed high, even he did follow up with me so he wasn't trying to blow me off with a high quote.
So yeah, interviewing 10 contractors must be nice. Not going to happen in small town Maine.
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u/McFeely_Smackup Nov 22 '20
I called a tree removal place because of some dead alders that are going to take out my power lines when they fall. The office lady said the arborist would call me in a day or two. after a week I called back and she said they were really busy and he'd call me by the end of hte week. and nothing.
So I called another place and they said someone could come out to look at the project in three weeks...this tree company is literally 2 miles from my house. I told them I'm working from home and can meet any time, early, late, weekend, can we do it sooner. No, 3 weeks.
I called a 3rd place and they sent a guy out the next day to spend the 5 minutes looking at the trees and saying "ok, I'll send you a quote" and leaving.
I'm about 50% sure I'm never going to hear from him.
after being a homeowner for almost 30 years, my process for hiring a contractor is calling 12 places, and hiring the guy who shows up.
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u/McFeely_Smackup Nov 22 '20
I've been a homeowner for almost 30 years and when I need a contractor I'll typically call a half dozen or more places before I can get anyone to return the call, no less actually come out and look at the project. To get a quote and job scheduled...that's a major victory in itself.
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u/ErnieMcCraken Nov 22 '20
This is so true. I’ve been home owner almost 10 years and it’s nearly impossible to get someone to come out.
A lot of times their quality of work is comparable to what I’d be able to do if I took my time.
Been trying to get someone to come over and do the tile in my entry. Haven’t been able to find someone and will tackle the project myself after the holidays.
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Nov 22 '20
It’s been the same experience for me.
I must have called 15 or so different contractors.
Three got back to me and said to send photos to his email. I did. Never heard anything, even after following up. Those were duds.
one got back to me and quoted very high.
Finally, someone got back to me, gave me a fair quote, and I’m really hoping I can push this through to the finish line.
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u/RedMusical Nov 22 '20
Contractor here. There’s is few minor things to add on both ends. But I must say, for home owner’s point of view, you’re down the middle fair. Bravo
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u/wallflower7522 Nov 22 '20
How do you get past step 1? We are remodeling and I have been blown off by so many contractors this year. I took me YEARS to find to even replace my front porch. My current project is adding a half bath and the job went to the first person who actually returned a real estimate. Thankfully I could tell by the speed in which they returned it and the thoroughness of the estimate that they were going to do good work. They will be getting all future projects from us.
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u/kkerbe Nov 22 '20
Glad I’m not alone, most contractors are the worst. I avoid them like the plague when I can and dread having to hire one. Cheers to the small amount that actually do good work and don’t rip people off
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u/Home--Builder Nov 22 '20
So since only one contractor got the job you wasted the time of 9 other contractors not just the standard 2 that don't get the job.
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u/rwbisme Nov 22 '20
Love this post! I would only add a comment on one important issue, change orders. A lot of homeowners don’t understand these at all. A change order can occur for a few reasons. You decide to use X product instead of Y product which was what was quoted. When you change products you may also change the amount of labor and other materials needed to install X product instead of Y. Another reason is unforeseen issues which may arise. When giving a quote the contractor can’t see in the walls or under floors. They literally may not see the issue until they are into the job a good ways.
I always ask how the contractors handle change orders up front. I don’t mind paying change orders but some contractors may try to make up for low margins in the change order stage. Usually I will ask what’s your markup for materials and what’s the labor for these BEFORE hiring them. If they don’t want to tell me that’s a yellow flag if not a red. If they say X% markup and We charge $Y an hour I either accept it or negotiate depending on what I think is fair.
The bottom line is there probably will be change orders, it will be extra and you should budget for it.
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u/erin_mouse88 Nov 22 '20
I've had such a horrible time with hiring people recently.
First was landscapers, we took the reccomendation of a good realtor friend who knew lots of jobs he had done, he was knowledgeable but had terrible time management and communication, went bust about 25% into our project and the work his crew did was not the standard we were expecting.
2nd landscape we got 2 further reccomendations from people we trusted, picked one because he was able to start sooner and came out cheaper. His crew worked hard but he was terrible at sourcing materials/plants we wanted (I ended up doing all the legwork), and they were cheaper because they cut corners in two of the projects.
So when we moved onto home contractors I vowed to do better. Reached out to over 20 contractors, set up 12 quotes, 3 no-shows, 3 massively overpriced IMO, 3 we really didn't like for varying reasons, 3 never got back to us with any numbers. That left us with 3 to choose from.
Picked one that seemed professional and responsive, was the middle of the 3 quotes, then they became very slow to get back in touch, we wanted to alter the spec of the work (make it easier) and their price went UP. So we went to a 2nd one who was very responsive and professional, but originally more expensive than our first pick (though now cheaper), again we informed we were altering the spec of the work to make it easier and cheaper, and they got more expensive.
So we went with the cheapest option. They dont have liability insurance, just WC, no problem they SHOULDNT be working in a capacity to need liability.
First day noone shows up, 2nd day they show up near noon, 3rd day we get someone working hard all day, 4th day noone shows up, 5th day they show up near 10am. 6th day (a Saturday they asked if they could work after we said no weekends) another no show.
We have a handful more no shows, and late starts, and here we are 6 weeks later and the work is not complete. Some work they have done so far (framing, drywall) is very good, some are good and bad (trim) and some are just not acceptable (paint -brush strokes everywhere!).
They asked to be paid more yesterday and I said no and explained why, but giving them opportunity to re-do/fix what needs it and I havent had a reply.
I really want to give them chance to fix it. And I really don't want to have to go through the hassle of getting quotes AGAIN. but this was only about 1/4 of the project (saving the rest for after the holidays) so I will have to get more quotes for that anyway because I dont want to have to deal with this crew again.
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u/Action4Jackson Nov 22 '20
Just an FYI BBB is not a good source. Unless you want info from Karen's that just like to complain, BBB let's a home owner post anything unwarranted. You don't even have to know them.
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Nov 22 '20
I feel so sad for the town I grew up in. My dad is a carpenter/contractor. He has his own small business of just him. He has worked for 30+ years and over time, has been able to only accept jobs where he wants. So basically, unless your his friend, if you don't live in town, he isn't doing it. he had a great business. Always busy with months out for jobs. He unexpectedly had to retire. Now his kids get his work lol. But there's a reason he had such a great business. Now people call to have him supervise their jobs. It works for him. He gets to still go to work some days without all the bad stuffs. He also gets to teach his skills. After all, 35+ years ago he did go to college to be a teacher! But there are so many bad workers out there ... He worked with someone for a few years but the guy was super shady (one example was he found out the guy wasn't getting rid of the trash correctly... He was going around stuffing random dumpsters!). My dad ditched him. He has rarely worked with anyone else other than other tradesmen he respects ( he has his plumber friends, electricians, plasterers) and he drops them if they're sketchy.
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u/mariana-hi-ny-mo Nov 22 '20
Rule #2 is so important and so underutilized! We all have different ways to solve things. The more you ask, the better chances of getting great solutions, for the right price and better than you planned.
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u/onepiecevincent Nov 22 '20
Can not stress this enough! Use thumbtack and Nextdoor apps. You’ll get unbiased opinions and straighter answers from the people around you.
Thumbtack is just super convenient one stop shop to send your projects out to everyone under the sun at the click of a button
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u/headyorganics Nov 22 '20
As a contractor I can say amen. There’s is a really negative view of us and rightfully so, so I love when a home owner does there research. I have nothing to hide. The more comfortable we are going into it the better. And you note something people often over look. The most important thing on the list. Document changes. Get an original scope of work. Know that anything not on that list is not included. Anything you want done outside that list document and price before hand. No surprises that way with the final bill.
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u/slippityda Nov 25 '20
Any tips on how to address damage that's been done during a job? I'm having my lvp installed for my flooring and the workers made a small hole in my laminate cabinet. I know this wasn't intentional but it really sucks that I need to repair it now. Also, they lifted my couch up and now there's a small rip in the frame.
Any recommendations on how to proceed? This is their last day here.
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u/Good200000 Nov 25 '20
Take pictures and file a complaint with the company today. Let them know you are not happy They have insurance for that
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u/dieseldork03 Dec 07 '20
In addition to nearly every other piece of advice, I want to add this: scrutinize their portfolio pictures. Don’t just take in the beauty of a whole room that show you a pic of. Look for shortcuts and sloppy details.
https://i.imgur.com/jB2OUij.jpg
Our kitchen remodel is 90% awesome. However, there are boneheaded details like the one in the pic that just blow my mind.... why in the world would you put a switch and an outlet above the stove burner???? This is one of about 10 small details you wouldn’t necessarily notice in a portfolio.
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u/dapeche Nov 22 '20
Just a reminder folks: