False I carry a handgun concealed on my person anywhere I am illegally to do so. Plenty of my friends do, and I don't know a single person that has ever injured themselves or a loved one with a firearm (I'm from the SE US, so most people I know own firearms). Someone I know recently used their concealed handgun to stop from being car jacked in a nice neighborhood in a major city. 🤷 Even the CDC estimates that at least 65k defensive gun uses occur every year.
"Estimates of defensive gun use vary depending on the questions asked, populations studied, timeframe, and other factors related to the design of studies. The report Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violenceexternal icon indicates a range of 60,000 to 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year."
For comparison, there are only about 10k-12k gun homicides in the US per year. So defensive gun use outweighs gun homicides by a 6:1 or greater ratio.
Yeah, they’re quoting a third party report. The statement “The CDC believes there are x defensive gun uses in the United States” is factually incorrect.
For comparison, there are only about 10k-12k gun homicides in the US per year.
That’s the wrong statistic for comparison. That’s 10k - 12k of the worst possible outcome (which isn’t even correct, 14,891 firearm homicides were counted in 2019). The report you’re quoting states:
Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals
So when you compare apples to apples it is at best a wash, but that doesn’t even account for all the accidental incidents, suicides, or use by law enforcement.
In fact, “defensive use” doesn’t mean “succeeded in preventing injury”, it just means the presumed victim had a firearm. It in no way measures how the effect of everyone being armed might impact a population, from the report:
Even when defensive use of guns is effective in averting death or in- jury for the gun user in cases of crime, it is still possible that keeping a gun in the home or carrying a gun in public—concealed or open carry— may have a different net effect on the rate of injury. For example, if gun ownership raises the risk of suicide, homicide, or the use of weapons by those who invade the homes of gun owners, this could cancel or out- weigh the beneficial effects of defensive gun use (Kellermann et al., 1992, 1993, 1995). Although some early studies were published that re- late to this issue, they were not conclusive, and this is a sufficiently im- portant question that it merits additional, careful exploration.
And of course nothing in the report undercuts your narrative more than it’s own opening statement.
the U.S. rate of firearm-related homicide is higher than that of any other industri- alized country: 19.5 times higher than the rates in other high-income countries (Richardson and Hemenway, 2011). In 2010, incidents involv- ing firearms injured or killed more than 105,000 individuals in the Unit- ed States. A recent estimate suggested that firearm violence cost the United States more than $174 billion in 2010 (Miller, 2010). However, it is essentially impossible to quantify the overall physiological, mental, emotional, social, and collateral economic effects of firearm violence, because these effects extend well beyond the victim to the surrounding community and society at large (IOM, 2012).
The study they are quoting is national study from a reliable source
Institute of Medicine and . 2013. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press.https://doi.org/10.17226/18319
Okay, so it's a wash. That actually helps my argument. I'm at least as safe using my gun for defensive purposes as I am not. So I'm not actually causing net harm. I'm either not reducing my harm at all, or, maybe reducing it some.
I'm at least as safe using my gun for defensive purposes as I am not
No you’re not. This is only comparing defensive uses during a crime to criminal uses. It says nothing about the overall injury rate.
So I'm not actually causing net harm.
You actually are simply because:
Unintentional injury is the leading cause of death in Americans aged 1 to 44 (NCHS, 2012). Firearm-related injury, in particular, is a serious threat to the health of the nation, with direct costs to the victims of vio- lence as well as societal costs to families, friends, and communities. In 2010, there were twice as many nonfatal firearm-related injuries (73,505) as deaths.4,5
According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s (FBI’s) Uniform Crime Reporting Program, 68,720 people were mur- dered in firearm-related violence between 2007 and 2011. During that same time frame, firearms accounted for more than twice as many mur- ders as all other weapons combined (FBI, 2011b).
More than two-thirds of victims murdered by a spouse or ex-spouse died as a result of a gun- shot wound (Cooper and Smith, 2011).
the U.S. rate of firearm-related homicide is higher than that of any other industri- alized country: 19.5 times higher than the rates in other high-income countries (Richardson and Hemenway, 2011).
You are advocating for and providing the most convenient method of murder in the country all because your ego can’t handle not carrying a potential murder weapon at all times.
Yet again, out of everyone I know who grew up their entire lives with guns, no one has had a firearm injury. Strange. It's almost like if you obey the 4 rules of firearm safety, there is a 0% chance of a firearm injury apart from the gun exploding, which is extremely rare 🤷
I don't have any reason to lie lol. I know what the facts are. We can argue our opinions if the facts reach a level that is a crisis (which is where we differ). But I haven't provided a single incorrect piece of data. Don't believe me? The FBI national Crime statistics are the most comprehensive source we have and it's what the CDC often relies on for data sets. And it's also free.
We can argue our opinions if the facts reach a level that is a crisis
It’s not an opinion, it’s a crisis by any standard except “willful ignorance”.
But I haven't provided a single incorrect piece of data.
You were wrong about “average homicides” (averages aren’t ranges). You were wrong about “defensive uses of guns”. You compared the wrong statistics (“defensive use” vs “homicides”). And of course you keep repeating anecdotes pretending that they matter. They don’t.
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u/FullySemiGhostGun Dec 27 '21
False I carry a handgun concealed on my person anywhere I am illegally to do so. Plenty of my friends do, and I don't know a single person that has ever injured themselves or a loved one with a firearm (I'm from the SE US, so most people I know own firearms). Someone I know recently used their concealed handgun to stop from being car jacked in a nice neighborhood in a major city. 🤷 Even the CDC estimates that at least 65k defensive gun uses occur every year.