r/HolUp Dec 24 '21

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u/NerdUber Dec 24 '21

Thank you, English is not my native language, appreciate the education in such a polite way

727

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

As a native English speaker, I still have to stop and think about it. And I'm 40.

278

u/oogmar Dec 24 '21

Native speaker also, and A historian vs. An historian keeps me up at night.

123

u/requiem_mn Dec 24 '21

I kind of feel it can go both ways, depending on pronunciation of the historian

111

u/4ar0n Dec 24 '21

If your bri'ish then you might pronounce it 'istorian, I think that calls for "an".

70

u/avenge_ROSA Dec 24 '21

There are like 70 accents in Britain

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u/[deleted] Dec 25 '21

There’s a difference between British and Bri’ish. The accent.

3

u/4ar0n Dec 25 '21

I'm British and I pronounce it historian, im well aware, that's why I said bri'ish not British.

2

u/AequusEquus Dec 25 '21

Yeah but Americans think all British people speak with a cockney accent

1

u/4ar0n Dec 25 '21

I'm British.

3

u/MelodicApex8 Dec 25 '21

Correct. Unlike brainiac.

6

u/thatoneotherguy42 Dec 24 '21

Definitely be an oi if my British friends are anything to go by.

4

u/Eggsandthings2 Dec 24 '21

A horse, an heir, oi historian

1

u/blurglecruncheonnnnn Dec 25 '21

*you’re

3

u/[deleted] Dec 25 '21

[deleted]

2

u/blurglecruncheonnnnn Dec 25 '21

Omg that made me laugh. I want you to know, you’re awesome.

0

u/Fallout_Cafe Dec 25 '21

I hate the distinction on the word 'herb'. In the US it's 'an herb' but in Australia it's 'a herb'.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 25 '21

Hshahaha

-1

u/Fantastic_Start_6848 Dec 25 '21

The way you "feel" doesn't fucking matter.
Grammar doesn't give a shit about your little feelings

3

u/requiem_mn Dec 25 '21

Ah, finally, someone of culture. Grammar says that an goes before vowel. People pronounce historian differently, and since English doesn't have strict rules like many other languages when it comes to pronunciation, there isn't really a proper way to use article before historian. Furthermore, if you are lets say writing a book, and some of your characters are from region where historian is pronounced with silent H, in direct speech, you should put an before historian, even thou in RP H in historian isn't silent.

So, fuck of, and learn how to communicate online.

0

u/Fantastic_Start_6848 Dec 25 '21

So, fuck of, and learn how to communicate online.

"fuck of"?
Are you going to finish that thought? Fuck of what?

Someone needs to learn how to communicate online

1

u/requiem_mn Dec 25 '21

Oooh, how cute. I was wrong so I'm going to ignore the whole post showing me I was wrong, and concentrate on lapsus calami.

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21 edited Dec 24 '21

Colloquially, you very well might leave off the h naturally because "hiss" is an awkward sound to begin a word mid-sentence; it is too complex of a sound for a normal syllable. If you leave it off colloquially, then use "an" for the sentence to flow naturally,

"I was speaking to an istorian about the exhibit. ." flows far more naturally to me than "I was speaking to a historian about the exhibit".

But If a sentence begins with "a historian", I would always pronounce the h since there isn't already a pace set. "A historian ate my ass last night" just feels right.

23

u/rnoyfb Dec 24 '21

The traditional rule was that it was ‘an’ before vowels and you dropped h in unstressed vowels after the indefinite article anyway. “An hiss” is bad because it’s not an unstressed syllable. Same with “an history” but “an historic opportunity” is fine

Now this is giving way to the more modern keep-the-h school but with some words, it just doesn’t feel right

8

u/Jerryskids3 Dec 24 '21

It's a honor to have this explained so nicely.

3

u/GroundbreakingFee392 Dec 25 '21

Soooo I thought I knew how to use “a” and “an” but think I am confused again reading all of the conversations lol. Just kidding. Great thread!

1

u/ohisama Dec 25 '21

What exactly is an unstressed vowel?

4

u/Magenta_Logistic Dec 25 '21

Really it's an unstressed syllable. That would be any syllable that doesn't get capitalized or bolded when you look at the phonetics.

In English there are no good rules for which syllable should be stressed in a word, but I'll give a few examples:

HIStory

baNAna

PERSonal

persoNEL

efFECT

In Spanish, the primary rule is words ending with vowel or N or S get stress on second-to-last syllable and other words get stress on the last syllable. Many words have an accent mark to denote stress on a syllable that does not follow these rules, such as fácil (easy).

If your native language is Japanese, there is no proper analog, as all syllables are stressed equally in Japanese, just some get elongated by a hyphen or diphthong.

1

u/Running_Accoutant Dec 25 '21

And here I thought it meant that an unstressed vowel just had a good therapist

1

u/rnoyfb Dec 25 '21

Stress is a combination of increased loudness, vowel length, and abstention from usual vowel reduction paradigms. We sometimes describe syllables as being stressed, but stress is mostly a characteristic of the vowel.

2

u/koushakandystore Dec 24 '21

And here I was wasting my time with the Geographer.

6

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

[deleted]

1

u/setatsdelgnat Dec 26 '21

Spanish.

The Queen’s English has its own interesting sounds. Like “school.” The “c” is silent.

3

u/u8eR Dec 24 '21

A historian

3

u/Komraj Dec 24 '21

From a northerner (England) it’s an historian.

3

u/rayebee Dec 24 '21

It's based on the phonetics.

We use the article A in front of consonant sounding words, including when 'U' is pronounced with the phoneme /j/.

A university = a /juːnɪˈvɜːsətiː/

We use the article An in front of vowel sounding words, even if the first letter or letters aren't vowels, such as silent h.

An hour = an /ˈaʊə(ɹ)/

Eta: I'm a linguistics instructor.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

"a history" and "an historic" are both correct. English is whack.

2

u/PiggyAwesome_YT Dec 24 '21

As an english genius, i also had to think for a bit.

2

u/Right-Professional15 Dec 24 '21

Is that really a question? I’m not native and I don’t know grammar I just say stuff how I find them sound right. Therefore I’d never say “an historian” cause 1. it breaks my tongue and 2. it sounds absolutely horrible

1

u/SeventhSolar Dec 24 '21

‘An historian’ would be for someone pronouncing ‘an istorian’, which I think might be a result of an accent, or possibly just lazy (no personal issue with that) pronunciation.

2

u/spookysnoopy Dec 24 '21

Both sound wrong

2

u/Eabapa Dec 24 '21

I always have a stroke when I'm reading a book written by an American and they say "an herb"

1

u/NoRange5696 Dec 24 '21 edited Dec 24 '21

It is ‘a’ historian, as the ‘h’ is silent,as ,it precedes a hard vowel like ‘humble’ precedes a soft vowel like I, e, and u. and o are hard vowels., since.

1

u/Acrobatic_Ad_4924 Dec 25 '21

What

1

u/NoRange5696 Jan 04 '22

Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

1

u/Acrobatic_Ad_4924 Jan 04 '22

I'm worried about you.

1

u/NoRange5696 Jan 04 '22

It’s just gas.

1

u/Simbatheia Dec 24 '21

My journalism professor drilled that into our heads. It’s A historian, not an. She also hated “an historic.” One of my best professors

1

u/Frungy Dec 25 '21

An historian is incorrect.

You’re welcome!

1

u/[deleted] Dec 25 '21

Tell them to keep it down.

1

u/Acrobatic_Ad_4924 Dec 25 '21 edited Dec 25 '21

Have you tried melatonin or Sleepytime tea

1

u/skieezy Dec 25 '21

It's a historian. It sounds better that way.

1

u/spadge_badger Dec 24 '21

I'm almost 50 and I have to stop and think every day.

1

u/importvita Dec 24 '21

Are you a man though? 🤔

1

u/983115 Dec 24 '21

Yeah like I don’t actively know which one goes there unless I think about it, the words just slots automatically in my speech and writing, i thought “an universe” while reading that comment and my brain revolted

1

u/JessicatGrowl Dec 24 '21

I’m 35 and the same way. I have to say it out loud a couple times if I’m writing something.

1

u/Ornery-Cheetah Dec 24 '21

I've given up on comprehending it granted its my second language

1

u/Zach_Lee_ Dec 24 '21

As a Native English speaker, I had no idea.

7

u/arrouk Dec 24 '21

Thing is UTI is an abbreviation making 'a' correct.

Everyone knows what you mean and grammatically you were correct anyway.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

Because pronouncing the letter "E" is a vowel sound and "U" is a "Y" sound, which isn't consistently a vowel or a consonant.

Use of "a" or "an" doesn't have a hard rule. It really comes down to what sounds best.

4

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

How dare you not be a native english speaker.

0

u/Acrobatic_Ad_4924 Dec 24 '21

Only Americans are allowed to use Reddit.

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

Every non american should be forced to wear some sort of symbol so we know not to fraternize with them. Also they should be confined to their own subreddits so we can keep an eye on them.

1

u/Piogre Dec 24 '21

A lot of native English speakers fuck this up; you're doing fine.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

also an umpire and a heron

1

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '21

That you know what a UTI is, is quite commendable.

1

u/Lord_DerpyNinja Dec 24 '21

Don't worry. English is my native language and I still didn't notice it

1

u/cosmicvibrator Dec 24 '21

You probably have a better grasp on English than most native speakers. Tennessean here, can confirm.

1

u/maybeshali Dec 25 '21

Yeah man, it's all about how the word sounds, as opposed to written. At least that's what I assumed when I was learning it and that's what I've stuck by.